Ordered an SE-1. Delivery in Nov.

[AvNavCom]

So BFR in a C712, first flight in the Stinson was solo.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Meanwhile, some other poor schmuck probably had five hours dual required to move from a 172N to a 172S. Gotta love how they determine these requirements!

 

[DaleB]

People get insurance in single place aircraft all the time. What the insurer wants will vary greatly depending on your prior experience, total hours, etc. I’ve heard of guys needing X number of hours in something with similar flight characteristics.

 

[Dana]

I was wondering why they built their own engine and not use a Rotax.

All of the 4-stroke Rotaxes are too heavy and too powerful, and the 2-strokes are all out of production.

I'm curious how insurance will work for these. Most insurance wants a check-out of about 5-10 hours with a CFI for a new make/model, but obviously a single-place aircraft doesn't allow that.

I've owned several single seat planes. They generally want to see time in a similar performing aircraft and a verbal checkout from the seller, and sometimes will only offer liability until you have 5-10 hours. They'll also negotiate... when I bought my Hatz, they first wanted 10 hours dual with a CFI with 25 hours in type. When I pointed out the near impossibility of finding such a CFI, they settled for a 1 hour familiarization flight with the non-CFI seller.

 

[2-Bit Speed]

Probably missed it somewhere. Does that engine run on mogas?

 

[Corin]

Probably missed it somewhere. Does that engine run on mogas?

 

[Lowflynjack]

I'm curious how insurance will work for these. Most insurance wants a check-out of about 5-10 hours with a CFI for a new make/model, but obviously a single-place aircraft doesn't allow that. Those of us with other TW time should be able to transition with a bit of care. I wonder if if some folks will need to get liability-only insurance until they build up a bit of time.

The original idea on these was, you get checked out in a Luscombe and get a few hours, then you'd be signed off on the SE-1. They were working with a couple of insurance companies to agree to the requirements.

 

[Lowflynjack]

^^^^^^^ I saw your pics on the other site on the ground. Some really nice work there. I'm gonna be down your way soon I might drop in to Taylor. There's an Arrow for sale I have been looking at on the field. Maybe visit if you are around.

Just let me know. I should be around. My good friend Marcus (The Angry German) works at the field you're going to.

 

[AZEL]

Nice.

The Chilton D.W.1 has always been a favorite design of mine.

 

[Barrett50]

I'm curious how insurance will work for these. Most insurance wants a check-out of about 5-10 hours with a CFI for a new make/model, but obviously a single-place aircraft doesn't allow that. Those of us with other TW time should be able to transition with a bit of care. I wonder if if some folks will need to get liability-only insurance until they build up a bit of time.

The factory people are asking around for insurance carriers. I don't know if they have any rec yet. I've asked my carrier and they have so far rejected any policy of any kind. As we get more in the field, and get some hours on them, one or more of the insurance vendors will take a chance and write a policy. For now, I don't know of any offerings.

 

[AvNavCom]

The original idea on these was, you get checked out in a Luscombe and get a few hours, then you'd be signed off on the SE-1. They were working with a couple of insurance companies to agree to the requirements.

Makes sense. I recall the owner saying something about "show me three good landings in a Luscombe and you'll be fine in one of these". Sounds like a reasonable standard. I wonder if the factory will buy a small fleet of Luscombes for owner check-outs! Sort of like a Cirrus program, but for people who like weird, awesome little tail-draggers!

The factory people are asking around for insurance carriers. I don't know if they have any rec yet. I've asked my carrier and they have so far rejected any policy of any kind so far. As we get more in the field, and get some hours on them, one or more of the insurance vendors will take a chance and write a policy. For now, I don't know of any offerings.

They won't entertain even a liability-only policy? That's disheartening. I've been waffling between one of these or a gyroplane as my end-of-career gift that is completely unjustifiable as anything other than a "joy of flying" toy. I'm sure that you're correct that we'll eventually see some sort of coverage. I wonder if the factory planes are self-insured, since they've been flying them all over the country.

 

[Barrett50]

They won't entertain even a liability-only policy? That's disheartening. I've been waffling between one of these or a gyroplane as my end-of-career gift that is completely unjustifiable as anything other than a "joy of flying" toy. I'm sure that you're correct that we'll eventually see some sort of coverage. I wonder if the factory planes are self-insured, since they've been flying them all over the country.

Not sure right now. All I'm certain of is my carrier whom I've been with for 16 years won't insure it at all.

You mentioned a gyrocopter, and also training in the TW type. I owned a Bensen B-8M and learned to fly it myself, as it's another single seat craft. The dynamics of gyro flight are pretty concerning for several reasons. If you go that route, I would say get several hours of pattern and ground work. Read up and understand power push-over very well. The thrust line is way below the loading rotor disk, and above the longitudinal CG. Rapid increases in power can cause some wild pitch moments, and induce PIO very easily. For fun, it's a toss up, for utility the SE-1 is way ahead. Safety the SE-1 is better. Once the bloom is off the gyrocopter rose, it gets kind of plebian.

 

[AvNavCom]

Not sure right now. All I'm certain of is my carrier whom I've been with for 16 years won't insure it at all.

You mentioned a gyrocopter, and also training in the TW type. I owned a Bensen B-8M and learned to fly it myself, as it's another single seat craft. The dynamics of gyro flight are pretty concerning for several reasons. If you go that route, I would say get several hours of pattern and ground work. Read up and understand power push-over very well. The thrust line is way below the loading rotor disk, and above the longitudinal CG. Rapid increases in power can cause some wild pitch moments, and induce PIO very easily. For fun, it's a toss up, for utility the SE-1 is way ahead. Safety the SE-1 is better. Once the bloom is off the gyrocopter rose, it gets kind of plebian.

Interesting. I'm with Old Republic. Perhaps I'll send an email to my agent and see what things look like.

Regarding the gyro, I appreciate the thoughts and advice. I will take that to heart. I've been looking into the Autogyro offerings. They look like an absolutely blast to fly, and different to the fixed-wing aviating I usually do. I have a bit of helicopter experience, but only turbine helicopters and not to any kind of certificate level. I sort of like the idea of goofing off at 50mph at 500ft AGL in something that I can auto-rotate down if I lose an engine. I had planned to look into one of the two-week sport-pilot level offerings, since as a PPL I can get that as a CFI add-on and avoid the DPE hunt which appears to be the biggest obstacle for gyros.

Without meaning to threadjack, I'm curious as to why you describe it as "plebian"? Did you find the aircraft too limiting in terms of performance? Or something else? Thanks!

 

[SpyderMike]

As a former self taught gyro guy, I agree with Barrett50. I have flown a couple of newer ones and it just wasn't the same (for me). It was a letdown from what I was hoping for...heavier, more stick force to maneuver, more stick shake, slow and just less thrilling overall. It was like going from driving a 1971 Porsche 911 (the Bensen) to a modern day SUV in my mind. Just my opinion though.

Get a ride in one...they are a bit different. See if it meets your needs.

 

[Barrett50]

I'm a long way from my Bensen days in the mid-80s. Today's gyros are revolutionary advanced from my three sticks of Aluminum with a two stroke drone blasting away behind me. Once I got comfy in it, I did my training at Ramona, CA before it was controlled. From what I recall, doing my autorotations caused plenty of pucker factor. To safely auto from a few hundred feet and save it at the ground, you have to catch it fast, and push the stick hard forward to keep the energy up. I used to blast around the foothills east of Ramona fairly low. Power lines are a problem, and I seem to recall they weathervaned(mine did) in gusts. The first 10-12 hours of playing with it were pretty cool, but after that it was the same ole, same ole. No one goes anywhere in them, they suck gas like a McLaren, noisy and not comfy at all. This is not to say the SE-1 is that comfy, or it doesn't weathervane, or people go places in them, but the Spirit factory took four to Osh from Grand Junction and I would not fly a gyro that far at 75kts burning 7GPH. I'd find a rental gyro and go for a couple flights, and see if it pushes the right buttons to invest. The furthest I went in my Benson was to Oceanside CA airport, filled with gas, ate a sammich, chatted with a guy flying a Ercoupe, and then hand propped it and screamed back to Ramona. If I were going to go rotary wing, I'd go all the way to an air conditioned R-44 Raven and do it right.

 

[Dana]

I had planned to look into one of the two-week sport-pilot level offerings, since as a PPL I can get that as a CFI add-on and avoid the DPE hunt

Finding a gyro CFI may be even tougher than finding a DPE...

As a former self taught gyro guy, I agree with Barrett50. I have flown a couple of newer ones and it just wasn't the same (for me). It was a letdown from what I was hoping for...heavier, more stick force to maneuver, more stick shake, slow and just less thrilling overall. It was like going from driving a 1971 Porsche 911 (the Bensen) to a modern day SUV in my mind.

Like the SUV, that modern gyro is a lot safer than a Bensen.

I have a couple of friends who fly gyros. They're kind of neat, but any aircraft that the pilot can easily put into an unrecoverable situation scares me.

 

[ateamer]

Finding a gyro CFI may be even tougher than finding a DPE...

There is a gyro flight school at Sebastian, FL (X26). One of our neighbors is a CFI there. He stays pretty busy teaching in gyros.

 

[MRC01]

View attachment 150318

That's what the Petersen mogas STC says for my O-360, except ethanol-free is required not just preferred.

 

[Barrett50]

Cellophane and kite string parachute is safer than a Bensen gyro. That two stroke McCulloch boxer drone engine was a beast. Weighed about 90Lb and put out 90HP back in the day. 10:1 gas to bean oil. I fouled a spark plug in flight once and it shook so much I could barely keep the runway in steady vision. Haven't flown a modern gyro, but I bet they still suffer from power push-over. Inherent in the basic design.

 

[AvNavCom]

Haven't flown a modern gyro, but I bet they still suffer from power push-over. Inherent in the basic design.

The Cavalon seems to have a pretty beefy horizontal stab right in the slipstream of the prop. I wonder if that improves things at all.

 

[Barrett50]

I have no idea about modern gyros, on stability. Well beyond my aged experience.
However - I have to take back a prev qualifier about them. As for 'traveling' in one, here's a model that I could take on a trip;

M26 Victor - Magni GyroFlight

Magni's side by side enclosed gyroplane. Perfect for all seasons, with unmatched visibility and a memories that will last a lifetime.

www.magnigyroflight.com

Says it'll go 400 miles(kts?) at 100kts burning 5GPH. Not too shabby for a rotor machine. Fly away price $170k, but it will seat two unlike the SE-1.

 

[AZEL]

Cellophane and kite string parachute is safer than a Bensen gyro. That two stroke McCulloch boxer drone engine was a beast. Weighed about 90Lb and put out 90HP back in the day. 10:1 gas to bean oil. I fouled a spark plug in flight once and it shook so much I could barely keep the runway in steady vision. Haven't flown a modern gyro, but I bet they still suffer from power push-over. Inherent in the basic design.

- xkcd Randall Munroe

 

[Southpaw]

What a good looking plane - should be a hoot to fly. Fun of a cub with Art Deco classic styling.

1) Getting it polished, or are you having it painted?
2) Curious why they didn't use an off the shelf engine, like a Rotax? Then again, it looks like you only need 40 or so HP.

Most important - where are you getting your mandatory 1930's leather jacket, with Rocketeer type helmet?

View attachment 150231

Went through the museum and film site in Santa Maria, CA . Hancock Field.

 

[SpyderMike]

Newer gyros, some from the 90s on, were designed to deal with centerline thrust issues and powered pushovers. The gyro site rotaryforums.com has folks that know. Not much activity there, but definitely some knowledge on the subject.

 

[Daleandee]

Here's good flight review of the SE-1:

 

[Flyxaos]

Look what I saw at Arlington WA. KAWO.

Sounded pretty cool too. He did a couple laps in the pattern then flew on down to Tacoma Narrows. KTIW.

It is cool to see one in the wild. It seems to make people smile when they see it.

 

[WDD]

View attachment 152462

Look what I saw at Arlington WA. KAWO.

Sounded pretty cool too. He did a couple laps in the pattern then flew on down to Tacoma Narrows. KTIW.

It is cool to see one in the wild. It seems to make people smile when they see it.

That .... is a classic, nice looking airplane.

 

[Flyhound]

Yeah, I saw it on an ADSB tracker. I almost flew to Arlington to see it. The tracking trail starts in Tacoma, so I assume that is where it is based.