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Rcmutz

Rcmutz

Cleared for Takeoff
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Feb 28, 2015
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Columbus, OH
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rcmutz
Well, I am going to do something here that I probably should not do, ask for opinions. But, we are all pilots and probably have all been in the same spot at sometime.

I currently own a 1979 Grumman Tiger, with G430W, KX170B, and a C-1 autopilot. It is just my wife and me, and our family live in the same town as we do. I am 59, IFR rated, not current, and fly mostly on the weekends, with the occasional, 2-3 time XC. Wife can only take about 5 hrs of flying in a day. I would really like to buy an older Bonanza, but I am also looking down stream and am beginning to think about a high wing, like a 177 or 182 for when I can no longer get up on the wing. The Tiger needs a new interior, and I may considerer painting sometime in the future. Mechanically, she has 1480 TTA&E, and boroscoping reveals no value issues, no oil burn, and compressions in the lo-mid 70's.

So, should I keep her, and upgrade the interior, and wait until I can no longer get up on the wing, or sell her now and move on to something else? Be nice.
 
As a Student pilot, but having owned more than my share of vehicles, from the 1940's to modern. I can say if your asking your getting the itch for something different, so it comes down to money and value to you. I am sure the '79 is paid for and just needs some minor TLC. I have never regretting selling a vehicle after I got the itch for a new one, but what I have done is regretted not buying something that could have been fun and enjoyable.

Also, since we never know what tomorrow brings I would buy what you want to enjoy today. Tomorrow will take care of tomorrow.
 
It sounds like the Tiger meets your needs, but in the spirit of YOLO, you should get the Bonanza, if that's what you really want.

As far as getting a high winger, don't do things you have to do because you are old, until you have to do them because you are old. If you really want a Bonanza, get a Bonanza and wait until you're 75 to trade it for a 182. You may find that you're able to get up on the wing until the day you decide to hang up your headset.
 
Climbing under the wing and trying to get in a plane is no easier than stepping up on a wing and climbing into a plane.
That's what my old bones tell me.
:cryin:
 
Thanks for the opinions so far and for taking it easy on me!

I would like the Bo, but not sure my typical flying mission requires one. Just the difference in insurance and fixed annual will pay for 20 hrs more flying in the Tiger. Of course this is logic being applied to something that is illogical, owning a non-business plane! LOL
 
I got my Cardinal because my wife is rather short and it is so easy to get into. Beware if you are tall because along with the floor coming down so do the wings and I have hit my head more than once. I'm going to go the other way from "Formerhangie" and say that it is probably easier for you to get around and assess alternative airplanes now so I would recommend you get your last plane now instead of wait until you need it.
 
Shepherd said:
Climbing under the wing and trying to get in a plane is no easier than stepping up on a wing and climbing into a plane.
That's what my old bones tell me.
:cryin:
Click to expand...

Try hauling yourself into a Luscombe!

But seriously, I hear Cardinals are easier for ingress/egress, though I've never been in one.
 
Rcmutz said:
Thanks for the opinions so far and for taking it easy on me!

I would like the Bo, but not sure my typical flying mission requires one. Just the difference in insurance and fixed annual will pay for 20 hrs more flying in the Tiger. Of course this is logic being applied to something that is illogical, owning a non-business plane! LOL
Click to expand...

Your mission doesn't require a Bonanza, what you have is probably just about ideal for your current usage. I suggested you get the Bonanza because your want one, not because you need it. If your budget makes the the Bonanza a stretch, then get the interior of the Tiger redone and keep on keeping on.
 
sounds like a case of grass is greener and one-more-knot-itis
N659HB said:
Try hauling yourself into a Luscombe!

But seriously, I hear Cardinals are easier for ingress/egress, though I've never been in one.
Click to expand...
they are. The door opening is very wide and the deck height is equivalent to many of today's SUVs.
 
I'm around your age and just sold a Tiger similar to yours (no 430w..). I also seriously considered a Bo, but will probably try to find a 2-seat Van's instead, since I seldom have a need for more than one passenger and would like more freedom in avionics choices. I have really enjoyed the Tiger, great little plane. I strongly agree with the premise that you shouldn't (at the young age of 59... :) ) get something less attractive because it *might* be better when you are 75. My best advice: keep flying. It will help keep you young.
 
I hear you. The Tiger is a good airplane, and I have gone back and forth over the last two years on this. There are plenty of C182's around, not so many 177's, and I guess in the future I can always go in that direction if the need really requires it. And there is always the C172's. I have owned either a Cheetah or Tiger since 1999 and am very comfortable flying them and working (owner assist) on them. Being familiar with all the individual quirks is a comfortable feeling when it comes to ownership.
 
I use to be a really big BO guy, but never owned one. Just like they way they look and space. But my current plane is a Mooney 20C. It's pretty roomy for two person flying. It may have 4 seats but its pretty tight. But the fuel economy is outstanding! I Get 120KTS on 6.5 GPH, then 145KTS on 8.5. I think your plane suits your needs but like some others, pull a YOLO and get you a BO!
 
I've owned a 79 Tiger and now have a Bonanza. For the type of flying you do, I would stick with the Tiger. Main reason being cost. Lots of Bo's for sale that appear cheap. Plan to invest heavily right after purchasing. The Bo will also cost more, sometimes a lot more, at annual. I love the Bo but if I was doing weekend VFR burger runs and occasional X-country I would update the Tiger and enjoy it. They have held their value so your not throwing money away by fixing it up.
 
N659HB said:
Try hauling yourself into a Luscombe!

But seriously, I hear Cardinals are easier for ingress/egress, though I've never been in one.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention the Luscombe. I was trying one on for size on Friday.
The last time I was in a Luscombe was 1965, I was 5'9" tall and maybe 125 lbs. I'm now a tad over 6' tall and 225 lbs.
Tight fit.
The Taylorcraft 12 is also tough to get in and out of.
Tight fit, also.
 
Shepherd said:
Funny you should mention the Luscombe. I was trying one on for size on Friday.
The last time I was in a Luscombe was 1965, I was 5'9" tall and maybe 125 lbs. I'm now a tad over 6' tall and 225 lbs.
Tight fit.
The Taylorcraft 12 is also tough to get in and out of.
Tight fit, also.
Click to expand...

It was easier for me 20 pounds ago. Good motivation for me to lose some weight. You tried on a Champ yet?
 
Keep in mind that with the Tiger (cool plane BTW) you not only step up onto the wing, but then you have to swing the legs over into the cockpit and lower yourself in. Much like getting into my RV.

Entering a Bo you're going from the wing and stepping down through the ONE doorway ane then slide across. No leg lifting while standing on the wing and holding the windscreen. Easier for everyone.

Entering the 177 or 182... easiest of those mentioned. And TWO doors!
 
I'd keep what you have and just upgrade what's necessary for the time being. Skip the headache of trying to sell and then going through the whole buying game until you're ready for it.

I agree with the 177 suggestions. Cessna aircraft are easy to get in and out of and the Cardinal is no exception. Big door and lower to the ground, you can practically just slide in.

Good luck!
 
I'd keep the tiger, all else fails get a step stool ;)

Per the interior, ain't no biggie, pull the interior and get a local rod and custom shop to do it, also if you're looking for a vacation bringing all that stuff down to TJ MX wouldn't be a half bad idea.

Read this, it'll get you a better interior for less
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182839-1.html


Also I've found folks have a easier time stepping into the cockpit compared to most aviation doors.

I'd also opine, from being around grummans, the day you can't get into a Grumman is probably around the time you should hang it up.
 
Thanks fellows. Some new good thoughts, and some I had already considered. I think in the end for the flying I do, the Tiger is fine. I am retired, and once the wife retires, if we end up doing more and longer xc's, maybe I'd consider something bigger. The wife likes the view from the Tiger, and prefers the ability to step down into the cockpit versus the other way.

James had an interesting opine. I saw an older gentleman trying to get into a c182 the other day. He had some mobility issues to begin with and he had to put both knees on the seat, and then slowly turn himself around and set down. Quite a site to see with him kneeling on the seat and his backside facing outward, but eventuallay he got himself situated. Doubt he would of been able to get up on a wing of any low wing, and into the cockpit. Maybe on a Grumman with a small step stool and then stepping over the sidewall, but who knows.

PS- I know the author of the article you linked to. Long time past Grumman guy.
 
I've owned a Tiger and a Bonanza. Loved them both. If you can afford a Bonanza, get one. Whether or not you really need one. That's a big if ($$) though. If you're getting pounded at 6.5 it's nice to know it won't take you long to see what it's like at 10.5. Or higher if you have O2.
 
I would stick with the Tiger. You already know the quirks, etc. If you swap, your new ride may wind up having all kinds of expensive issues.
 
If this is a stupid point just ignore, but don't you have to get up on something to check or to fuel a 172, 182?
 
Do it. Dump the cat and get what you really want. The thought is going to be a pebble in your shoe for years to come. At some point, you'll decide you just can't anymore and what could have been is gone.

Sell the Tiger, buy the bird you'll keep till your dead.


Rcmutz said:
Well, I am going to do something here that I probably should not do, ask for opinions. But, we are all pilots and probably have all been in the same spot at sometime.

I currently own a 1979 Grumman Tiger, with G430W, KX170B, and a C-1 autopilot. It is just my wife and me, and our family live in the same town as we do. I am 59, IFR rated, not current, and fly mostly on the weekends, with the occasional, 2-3 time XC. Wife can only take about 5 hrs of flying in a day. I would really like to buy an older Bonanza, but I am also looking down stream and am beginning to think about a high wing, like a 177 or 182 for when I can no longer get up on the wing. The Tiger needs a new interior, and I may considerer painting sometime in the future. Mechanically, she has 1480 TTA&E, and boroscoping reveals no value issues, no oil burn, and compressions in the lo-mid 70's.

So, should I keep her, and upgrade the interior, and wait until I can no longer get up on the wing, or sell her now and move on to something else? Be nice.
Click to expand...
 
mtuomi said:
Most of them have steps that you use to climb up to check the tanks.
Click to expand...

My question really was, if you still have to go up steps to check fuel or refuel, isn't that worse than stepping up on to the low wing to climb in? There is a step there too, but just one. Maybe the OP gets the employees to fuel it for him on all flights, but was just thinking if he is going to high wing because of physical issues, is it better to have to use steps up to fill fuel?
 
Unit74 said:
You should be banned for using YOLO. Last check, there weren't any 14 Y/O girls on this board.
Click to expand...

Someone's feeling salty today.

I have two teenage daughters at home, that sort of stuff rubs off on me.
 
LongRoadBob said:
My question really was, if you still have to go up steps to check fuel or refuel, isn't that worse than stepping up on to the low wing to climb in? There is a step there too, but just one. Maybe the OP gets the employees to fuel it for him on all flights, but was just thinking if he is going to high wing because of physical issues, is it better to have to use steps up to fill fuel?
Click to expand...

That is a very good point. Never crossed my mind, but you are correct. The specific concern was my wife getting up on the wing, but I have seen others use a milk crate, etc. But... at some point I may not be able to get up on the step to check the fuel without a step stool being carried in the plane.

somorris said:
I would stick with the Tiger. You already know the quirks, etc. If you swap, your new ride may wind up having all kinds of expensive issues.
Click to expand...

That is one of the things that drove me back away from a Bo when I eventually bought the Tiger after selling my Cheetah. I have heard one can plan on ~$2000 for a basic annual not including anything major. Start adding in gear work etc, and the bill gets high real quick.
 
Unit74 said:
Do it. Dump the cat and get what you really want. The thought is going to be a pebble in your shoe for years to come. At some point, you'll decide you just can't anymore and what could have been is gone.

Sell the Tiger, buy the bird you'll keep till your dead.
Click to expand...

Already has, as evidenced by this post! LOL!
 
Shepherd said:
Climbing under the wing and trying to get in a plane is no easier than stepping up on a wing and climbing into a plane.
That's what my old bones tell me.
:cryin:
Click to expand...
Not to mention standing on a rickety ladder to put gas in it.
 
Another vote for a cardinal. Good visibility, easy entry, and decent performance. Sounds like you're fine with a fixed gear version.
 
paflyer said:
Not to mention standing on a rickety ladder to put gas in it.
Click to expand...

LOL better than that step on the struct (if there is one)! I'll take a ladder any day for Cessna type planes to check fuel and cap.
 
mtuomi said:
Most of them have steps that you use to climb up to check the tanks.
Click to expand...
LongRoadBob said:
My question really was, if you still have to go up steps to check fuel or refuel, isn't that worse than stepping up on to the low wing to climb in? There is a step there too, but just one. Maybe the OP gets the employees to fuel it for him on all flights, but was just thinking if he is going to high wing because of physical issues, is it better to have to use steps up to fill fuel?
Click to expand...
A step ladder(like they have at most fuel pumps) is probably a bit easier than crawling up on the wing of Tiger and then over the canopy lip, onto the seat, etc. Also, with a Tiger, you have to get down on your hands and knees to get to the four sump drains. :) But it sounds like the OP was more concerned with his passengers' mobility.
 
paflyer said:
Don't forget the burn certs.
Click to expand...


Read the article, but if I were to go and do a interior, I'd use automotive stuff and just send swatches off for a quickie cheap burn cert.
 
With proper use of AOA, you should be able to ingress and egress from any of the above choices
 
Since you all provided some perspective, I thought I'd let you know which way I believe I will go.

First off, I am going to delete all my aircraft porn sites, so I stop looking, second, I am going to get my IFR currency back so I am more apt to take those XC flights, and third, I am going to take the same money I would of spent on a C182 or Bo, and begin to upgrade my Tiger to my specs. With a game plan, I think I can move forward. If my XC mission picks up to more frequently and longer, perhaps I will look to make a change. Look me up in three years as I may have a pretty nice Tiger for sale! LOL!
 
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