Opinions Please

GaryP1007

Pre-takeoff checklist
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GaryP1007
Contemplating lots of things in my panel upgrade but wanted opinions on the Aera 796 as a yoke mount option vs ForeFlight and ipad. I’m currently a ForeFlight guy but see the benefit of a hard wired unit made for flying. I can use the iPad on the co-pilot side. The 796 has been on the market a long time and wonder whether there’s a new product in the works.

Secondly, and some have given opinions previously, would you upgrade from a 430W to a GTN 650? What’s the advantage?

Thanks for your thoughts.


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This thread talks about iPad/Foreflight vs Aero 796. As far as upgrading from a 430W to a 650 I would suggest reading about how to work the 650 and then fly one a couple of times.

I was whole heartedly against the touch-screen Garmin's but I manage to get through my initial aversion to them. I cannot make a 650 sing like I can the 430 but that is just exposure. My plane has a 530/430 but a couple of the flight school planes have 750/650 and they are pretty nice.
 
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There's an iPad app that simulates the 650 pretty realistically and it's free. I really like mine, but I've not used a 430 to compare. I will say, I barely had to look at the manual to understand 80% of the functionality.
 
Contemplating lots of things in my panel upgrade but wanted opinions on the Aera 796 as a yoke mount option vs ForeFlight and ipad. I’m currently a ForeFlight guy but see the benefit of a hard wired unit made for flying. I can use the iPad on the co-pilot side. The 796 has been on the market a long time and wonder whether there’s a new product in the works.

Secondly, and some have given opinions previously, would you upgrade from a 430W to a GTN 650? What’s the advantage?

Thanks for your thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

430W to a 650 IS NOT a upgrade, it doesn't really give you any real additional abilities, they both shoot the same approaches to the same level, personally I'd take that money and spend it else where.
 
Keep the 430 , Garmin will support it for many years.
 
Doesn't the 650 allow you to enter airways? If you fly a lot of long IFR trips, that would be nice. That said, if I had 430W, I'd probably just keep it.
 
Install a flightstream 210 so you can link an ipad app to the 430w. You can get what is essentially the 650 interface or just use foreflight. Airway problem solved without spending 10K.
 
Doesn't the 650 allow you to enter airways? If you fly a lot of long IFR trips, that would be nice. That said, if I had 430W, I'd probably just keep it.

Correct, personally me and my little tinfoil hat think garmin held hat ability back from the 430/530s so they could use to try and sell an "upgrade" later.

In my experience I just use foreflight and set it to only show waypoints at bends on airways, really isn't that big of a deal, especially with how infrequently I fly airways in my day to day IFR flying. With the flight stream and foreflight it's a complete non event.
 
If the plane I owned had a 430 in it I most likely wouldn’t be putting a 650 in it unless I had extra money to burn. I’ve seen 796 yoke mounted installs and that set up is NOT for me. Too bulky, typically lots of wires floating around which I don’t like. One guy here posted a pic with a panel mounted one and that looked nice.
 
If the plane I owned had a 430 in it I most likely wouldn’t be putting a 650 in it unless I had extra money to burn. I’ve seen 796 yoke mounted installs and that set up is NOT for me. Too bulky, typically lots of wires floating around which I don’t like. One guy here posted a pic with a panel mounted one and that looked nice.

Yeah, I’m inclined to stay ipad and ForeFlight as the ability to upgrade hardware and software is much easier.

The other option is to keep the 430w as #2 and the 650 as #1.


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430W to a 650 IS NOT a upgrade, it doesn't really give you any real additional abilities, they both shoot the same approaches to the same level, personally I'd take that money and spend it else where.

Technically the 650 will fly it’s own made up visual approaches to darn near any airport, that the 430 won’t. ;)

They’re not official instrument approaches of course.

If I had a 430 I wouldn’t buy a 650 either, but since we had no 430, the 650 was the correct option... for us.
 
Technically the 650 will fly it’s own made up visual approaches to darn near any airport, that the 430 won’t. ;)

They’re not official instrument approaches of course.

If I had a 430 I wouldn’t buy a 650 either, but since we had no 430, the 650 was the correct option... for us.
Technically the 650 will fly it’s own made up visual approaches to darn near any airport, that the 430 won’t. ;)

They’re not official instrument approaches of course.

If I had a 430 I wouldn’t buy a 650 either, but since we had no 430, the 650 was the correct option... for us.
If you had a 430 would you buy a 750?
 
If you had a 430 would you buy a 750?

Nope. I’d flog that 430 as the highly depreciating investment that it was. Just like I’ll flog the 650 even as new stuff comes out. LOL

Lifespan on avionics SHOULD be fairly long because features don’t get added that fast. But there are features that will make someone swoon if they’re buying to replace something 50 years old.

Like the Flightstream 510 in the GTNs. That’s a freaking cool thing. But you can do it with a Flightstream 210 on the 400 series. As long as you have enough physical ports for everything you want to integrate.
 
Contemplating lots of things in my panel upgrade but wanted opinions on the Aera 796 as a yoke mount option vs ForeFlight and ipad. I’m currently a ForeFlight guy but see the benefit of a hard wired unit made for flying. I can use the iPad on the co-pilot side. The 796 has been on the market a long time and wonder whether there’s a new product in the works.

Secondly, and some have given opinions previously, would you upgrade from a 430W to a GTN 650? What’s the advantage?

Thanks for your thoughts.


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Hi, I have an iPad Mini docked with an AirGizmo iPad cradle mounted on the panel
Also, I have a dual USB outlet with a 6" cord for the mini and can add a longer cord to charge my phone in flight.
Currently using the iLevel ADS-B for weather and for the iPad gps with FltPlan's Go App. Free everything...
 
Doesn't the 650 allow you to enter airways?
Yes. It's a great tool. It might depend on where you fly, but around here it is not uncommon to get temporarily vectored off the airway for some reason, then given "direct to" some other point on the airway.. or if they give a short cut, etc. In the 430 doing that is a little more cumbersome, on the 650 you can just tap the airway and flightplan and hit direct to that waypoint

The other thing I like about the GTN, it tells you what frequency you are on. It's kind of a nice little double check to remind you that you are still on GRND, or have switched to TWR, or if you get a hand off in flight a nice hint that maybe you coped the frequency wrong if you put in and don't get the nice little name under it
 
Keep the 430 , Garmin will support it for many years.

How do you know?

The long term problem may well be the supply of displays. Chips are cheap and easy and anyone can lay down some resist on a slice then etch, deposit, package, test and ship. Once the line that builds the display is dismantled it’s pretty much over for that display.
 
The long term problem may well be the supply of displays. Chips are cheap and easy and anyone can lay down some resist on a slice then etch, deposit, package, test and ship. Once the line that builds the display is dismantled it’s pretty much over for that display.
Chips are easy and cheap? Guffaw.

But I agree with the display issue which is already known.
 
Chips are easy and cheap? Guffaw./QUOTE]

Chips are easy and cheap. Millions are made every day. Small batch of custom chips off a prototype line? No worries. That's what those guys do.
 
The long term problem may well be the supply of displays. Chips are cheap and easy and anyone can lay down some resist on a slice then etch, deposit, package, test and ship. Once the line that builds the display is dismantled it’s pretty much over for that display.

Suppling chips and displays and all that are what dad did for decades. It’s not quite that simple for chips or displays.

For DoD and aerospace often the components chosen would go EOL as fabs changed or closed (in the bad days of all the US fabs closing down) and/or for DoD the stuff HAD to be built inside the country.

The manufacturer was usually given the option of making one final “lifetime buy” before the part number was pulled from the line card. Then they could negotiate who would store the items or they could.

Sometimes similar chips could be substituted but not often in the heavy certification worlds like those.

There were also line cards that were considered “long availability” parts because they were used by everyone in tons of products. Problem there was the fabs were often low volume and the manufacturer had to commit to buy a long way in advance with penalties for not buying the projected volume.

Anyway it’s all quite boring to anyone not in that biz but chips can’t usually be replaced in these products without triggering really expensive tests.

Nobody knows what pre-purchases Garmin committed to for repair parts on the 400 series or refurb deals with the manufacturer. Their move to a single price repair does indicate that they’re doing some sort of parts swapping at a repair facility plus replacement of anything they have component availability for to hide that many parts are way past EOL, probably.

Heck sometimes on DoD stuff the parts were EOL before the thing being made became operational. The mess of manufacturers, distributors with warehouses, and manufacturer predictions was a common topic of discussion whenever dad talked about people seriously screwing up in his work life. Ha.

He was usually trying to fix it by shuffling orders around to meet the short term needs of each manufacturer until the supply chain could get back to normal.

Or they’d say they didn’t need to make a “lifetime buy” and then call a year later asking for the part. Nope. None left. We told you that a year ago. But, but, but... we didn’t think the product would still be popular! (Or Congress/Pentagon ordered more, lots more... and everybody thought the thing was dead...) All sorts of messes like that behind the scenes.

I remember talking to him about telecom stuff once and the history of the Mitel 8870 chipset. Fascinating. Everybody used that thing. Mitel went under for various reasons. Clones were on the market but couldn’t be used in certified devices. Later California Micro made an official clone when patents ran out. Lawsuits. Insanity. All sorts of strangeness with that chip. And it was a “jellybean” component in telecom. DTMF decoder. Cheap. Easy to use. Hundreds of millions of them sold.

Oddball components for niche builders like Garmin’s aviation division if they have to use them end up with even stranger supply side stories as the products get older.
 
What guys? Who owns the masks? How long have yo been in the semi biz?
 
One right question, two wrong questions. Keep trying.
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I recognized that you were a real nice guy very early in our exchanges here on POA. It is nice that you stay on track. Stay on track with your outlook and opinions, they will limit you for the rest of your life.
 
in the real world, chips do not matter. entire boards do. nobody replaces SMD chips. they replace boards. so what is the supply of boards that garmin has? we know the supply of screens is almost gone. that has been predicted for years.

my take would be if I had a working 430/530 keep it until it dies, then replace with a new design unit. looking to install a unit? go with the current production unit.

bob
 
I recognized that you were a real nice guy very early in our exchanges here on POA. It is nice that you stay on track. Stay on track with your outlook and opinions, they will limit you for the rest of your life.
Thanks for the advice, Gramps.
 
I just sold my 796 and bought a new ipad PRO 10.5 with WingX. I like WingX better.
The pro model ipad has 0 glare! My old ipad was useless in the sun.
 
in the real world, chips do not matter. entire boards do. nobody replaces SMD chips. they replace boards. so what is the supply of boards that garmin has? we know the supply of screens is almost gone. that has been predicted for years.

my take would be if I had a working 430/530 keep it until it dies, then replace with a new design unit. looking to install a unit? go with the current production unit.

bob

I’m sure in this boutique market (even 10,000 of anything is were small in the electronics biz) they designed their own boards and specified their own components. Not to mention their own GPS modules, considering they started that biz right behind Magellan.

That’s what got the other ADS-B transponder assembler in trouble with FAA. Shipping product with a GPS module inside where they changed one cheap module for another or the firmware changed. (I forget.) Overall device wasn’t certified by FAA with the second one.

Garmin could easily whip out the BOM and the design files and have more boards made if the components are still available. The screens, not so easy because they probably bought those as a completed assembly.

The screens were probably EOL from the manufacturer of them clear back when the 400 series was still for sale. All depends on how many of them they stashed.

I don’t disagree with your assessment to keep a working 430 or 530 though. It’s a fine unit.
 
Had my 430 factory overhauled and upgraded to 430W last year to like new. Like others have said... add the FS210 and enjoy many more years of use.
 
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