Opinions on this little thing...

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by vkhosid, May 24, 2018.

  1. vkhosid

    vkhosid Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,449
    Location:
    SFO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    94V
  2. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,386
    Location:
    North Creek, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lachlan
    12 bucks? I'd buy that thing for 20 and fly the paint off it!
     
    benyflyguy likes this.
  3. vkhosid

    vkhosid Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,449
    Location:
    SFO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    94V
    Close....12,000....but still, question remains...
     
  4. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,386
    Location:
    North Creek, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lachlan
    Too bad. The ad title said "$12" and no mention of any extra thousands til the bottom of the page. It looks like fun way to tool around the sky and not have to pick bugs out of your teeth from grinning whilst piloting. ;)
     
  5. vkhosid

    vkhosid Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,449
    Location:
    SFO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    94V
    How feasible is it to slap a transponder on that thing?
     
  6. vkhosid

    vkhosid Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,449
    Location:
    SFO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    94V
    The $12 price-tag aisde, any opinions on the plane and/or adding a transponder to it?
     
  7. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17,746
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    It’ll only kill ya once...
     
    Todd82 and benyflyguy like this.
  8. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,798
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    I’m not a fan of flying behind (or infront of) a 2-stroke engine, but that’s just me. You can have it.
     
  9. arnoha

    arnoha Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,325
    Location:
    Saratoga, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    arnoha
    It clearly has an electrical system. But I can't tell if it has a charging system. Sometimes these small aircraft expect you to charge the battery each time, since the battery lasts about as long as a tank of gas anyway. Which is great for everything but transponders. Transponders tend to be energy hogs. That said, I've seen it done where the transponder is driven off the battery. Given the environment, you'd need a radio, too, but that's easier and you could use a handheld.
     
  10. vkhosid

    vkhosid Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,449
    Location:
    SFO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    94V
    I feel that a comment like that requires further explanation...

    Why do you say that?
     
  11. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17,746
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    You do? How many times do you think you can die?
     
  12. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,798
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    You tell me. This is a statement from Rotax for their 503 engine.


    Limitations
    The manufacturer acknowledges the design limitations of this engine to be:

    This engine, by its design, is subject to sudden stoppage. Engine stoppage can result in crash landings, forced landings or no power landings. Such crash landings can lead to serious bodily injury or death...This is not a certificated aircraft engine. It has not received any safety or durability testing, and conforms to no aircraft standards. It is for use in experimental, uncertificated aircraft and vehicles only in which an engine failure will not compromise safety. User assumes all risk of use, and acknowledges by his use that he knows this engine is subject to sudden stoppage...Never fly the aircraft equipped with this engine at locations, airspeeds, altitudes, or other circumstances from which a successful no-power landing cannot be made, after sudden engine stoppage. Aircraft equipped with this engine must only fly in DAYLIGHT VFR conditions."
     
    X3 Skier likes this.
  13. Kansas Flyer

    Kansas Flyer Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Messages:
    363
    Location:
    Wichita
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James
    2 strokes can be pretty temperamental and tend to be less reliable than 4 strokes.
     
  14. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    20,310
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    If the engine is sound and you take good care of it and have common sense, aside from it being kinda ugly and not a tailwheel, I'd fly it.

    It's experiemental, so shouldn't be too crazy, but I'd wager over 2k depending (ADSB) on how you want to go about it, how handy you are and what the plane currently has installed.

    The question I would have is does it have, or if not can somewhat easily get, a N number


    You'll find some folks even in GA are scared of small aircraft unless they look like what they are used to, much as the same way the general public is scared of Cessnas and the like.

    I really wouldn't pay much attention to that.


    Sounds like a engine built in our new and "enlightened" litigation happy era, with a "warning" written by a small army of lawyers, you know the same guys that thought of these gems

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
    Tantalum likes this.
  15. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    13,572
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    Different strokes for different folks.
     
    Tantalum likes this.
  16. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    6,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    I haven't really had bad luck with 2 strokes, in fact, in my experience working with small engines the 4 strokes tend to be much more finicky. Plus, from a mechanical standpoint the 2 stroke has extremely few moving parts and is pretty "self sufficient" from that regard.. not much that can go wrong in a basic 2 stroke as long as it gets fuel, air, and a spark (yeah they say that abot 4 strokes, but each combustion cycle in a 4 stroke requires a ton of magic to happen with cams, lobes, valves, etc.

    I mean, how much abuse does your weed-wacker take? I've never had mine just suddenly die mid trim. Sure, they idle like garbage and will sometimes quit idling, but I blame that on weed-wackers just not having enough flywheel inertia. 4 strokes need much more babying.. and most plane engines you fly behind if you look at them wrong they'll crap out on you

    2-strokes where the go-to engine in the marine industry.. because of their lightweight and absurd simplicity. Reliability is important when you are way off shore. There are plenty of two stroke diesels out there in operation as well. Really, the main reason 2-strokes died off, is because of enviro regs.. and they tend to loud and smelly

    That warning on the Rotax thing to me sounds more like some lawyers had a field day. Because, you know, life has no risks and we personally never make mistakes in this happy unicorn land, if something goes wrong it is someone else's fault, typically a large evil money hungry corporation (/s) ruled by sneering men in suits
     
    James331 likes this.
  17. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    23,226
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Eh, 2 stroke 4 stroke. Clarence says...

     
    Todd82, benyflyguy and Tantalum like this.
  18. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    489
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    I think that there are 2-seat certificated options under $20k that will fly better, be safer, and have better resale value.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    6,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    ^awesome. I showed my friends that in college and they thought it was the greatest thing
     
  20. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,798
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    You guys do as you wish. I don’t really care.
     
  21. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    23,226
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Now now Ryan, be nice or we'll make you take time out. :rofl:
     
  22. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,526
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    it seems fine if you want an ultralight, but if you want a real airplane, which it kind of sounds like when you talk of transponders, there are better options.
     
  23. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,798
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Eh, I did enough of that during my younger days. :p

    I knew posting that warning statement would cause a few people to get into a tizzy. Like I say, that’s my opinion about this aircraft and engine. If you like it, more power to you.
     
  24. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    13,572
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    It’s not an ultralight.
     
  25. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,526
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Technically true. But my point still stands.
     
  26. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    4,089
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shawn
    Transponder may not be required even for the Mode C Veil. Requirements are engine driven electrical system AND aircraft originally manufactured with a transponder. Doubt that was.

    Now in terms of where you wanna fly, having recently ventured into the world of Ultralights...and even though it is a light sport we fly with the mentality of WHEN our engine will go out, not IF. (I have had two engine outs in one day in my PPG). I would fly that all day long around Hollister, but not SQL!
     
  27. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,526
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    I thought it was if the aircraft was originally manufactured with an electrical system, not transponder?
     
  28. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    4,089
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shawn
    Yup...you are correct. Just re-red the regs and that just refers to the electrical system, not transponder.
     
  29. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    14,679
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Have you ever flown one? Try flying it ,and if you like it go for it. I like the idea of the chute.
     
  30. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    20,310
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    Here's a example of how a ultralight can make sense, if it's wasn't for my new boat maxing out my hangar something like this probably would have ended up in my hangar at some point, with n numbers and some basic lights and stuff it would be a great short range backcountry commuter and also a excellent for the joy of flight / burger run machine.




    Here's one for sale from a quick google search

    "N3PUP ELSA • $6,500 • FLY CHEAP • 55 hrs tt on 40 hp moseler engine, factory airframe.Selling due to my age (79) no tirekikers. • Contact Daniel B. Mclamb, Owner - located Clinton, NC USA • Telephone: 910-214-0939 • Posted May 18, 2018 • Show all Ads posted by this AdvertiserRecommend This Ad to a FriendEmail AdvertiserSave to WatchlistReport This Ad"

    That's burning 3.5GPH of auto fuel at 100% power BTW, and on a engine that can be rebuilt for a few thousand or less in a fully enclosed backcountry plane that's basically a baby Piper cub.
     
    X3 Skier likes this.
  31. vkhosid

    vkhosid Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,449
    Location:
    SFO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    94V
    Well, I was looking at this thing and figured it was a great way to get off the ground, cheap.

    I sincerely appreciate you clarifying your comment about not wanting to use the Rotax, Ryan.

    The main thing I would be doing is putting around SF and the the surrounding areas...as far north as Santa Rosa, as far south as Monterey or Harris Ranch, and as far east as Sacramento...that's pretty much it. I should mention that ideally, I'd like to bring a passenger with me.
     
  32. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,798
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Cool video. Didn't quite like how he was positioned while hand propping that though, but that's a different subject.

    You're welcome.
     
  33. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    20,310
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    It was a little odd, he also seemed to keep it on the ground for awhile and also touch down a little hot. Still from what I've seen bang for the buck those N3s seem like a ton of plane.
     
  34. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    857
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    This looks very similar to my Challenger II including the Rotax. It is classified as experimental amateur built and has an N-number. Mine has 1,400 hours on it (mostly by the previous owner) and has never had an engine die although I believe it's been rebuilt 5 times. That doesn't mean it can't happen on the next flight but I think there are a lot of people who run scared from a 2 stroke for no reason. These are fun little LSA's to fly but make sure you get some training! They are not good in the wind. They are so light that any gust really blows you around. The 2 stroke takes some getting used to. During descents you are at an idle, otherwise they overheat the exhaust manifold. Make sure it has an engine monitor. Mine has a rectifier in the engine for battery charging so I do have a hand held radio/intercom and electric start. I don't know if there's enough power for a transponder. VNE is 100 knots and cruise is 70 so don't be in a hurry to get anywhere.

    Super fun but just like any airplane, always be planning your next landing!
     
  35. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,481
    Location:
    Hopewell Jct, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shepherd
    I'd fly it.
    I'm an addict. I'll try to fly anything, just for the rush.