Opening a flight plan while on flight following

[azpilot]

I feel embarrassed to ask this, but I don't know, so I figure it's better to ask.

Can I open a flight plan with center while on flight following? During private pilot training, we would take off, call up flight service, open the flight plan, and then call approach for flight following. I'm going to be departing KCHD to the north tomorrow morning for a cross country flight. I'll call up PHX approach right away so I can do the bravo transition. Can approach open my flight plan? Or do I need to ask for a frequency change, call flight service, open the flight plan and then call center back up and let them know I'm back on freq?

 

[Velocity173]

They can open it but it depends on how busy they are. Same as closing a flight plan. You could ask but just be prepared for a freq change to FSS to open it yourself.

 

[Half Fast]

Why not file it through 800wxbrief and then open it with a text message just before you take off? The only reason I open mine in the air is the poor cellular at my home drome.

 

[azpilot]

Why not file it through 800wxbrief and then open it with a text message just before you take off? The only reason I open mine in the air is the poor cellular at my home drome.

Wow, I didn't even know I could do that. You can open a flight plan via text message? I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip.

 

[luvflyin]

I feel embarrassed to ask this, but I don't know, so I figure it's better to ask.

Can I open a flight plan with center while on flight following? During private pilot training, we would take off, call up flight service, open the flight plan, and then call approach for flight following. I'm going to be departing KCHD to the north tomorrow morning for a cross country flight. I'll call up PHX approach right away so I can do the bravo transition. Can approach open my flight plan? Or do I need to ask for a frequency change, call flight service, open the flight plan and then call center back up and let them know I'm back on freq?

Yes. Center, Approach or Tower can open your flight plan. Will they? Not often. It takes time and a detraction from their duties. They are the 'middle man.' They don't open it. They call FSS and open it for you. I would recommend not trying it with PHX Approach unless you're flyin someone else's plane and disguise your voice. You don't want to get a bad rep with them

 

[flyingron]

Ask to leave the frequency and call FSS. It happens all the time, not just for opening flight plans. Unless you're in the middle of a class B, ATC won't mind.

 

[RyanB]

Opening a flight plan in flight is as simple as requesting a frequency change to do so. In this case, I too would simply open it prior to departure, that way it’s already taken care of.

 

[CC268]

Wow, I didn't even know I could do that. You can open a flight plan via text message? I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip.

Not sure with EFB you use, but if it is foreflight you can do all this with the touch of a button. If not, the text message method through 1800wxbrief works well - I have used it myself several times.

 

[airdale]

VFR or IFR? They are quite different. ATC doesn't care much about VFR flight plans.

 

[Half Fast]

Not sure with EFB you use, but if it is foreflight you can do all this with the touch of a button. If not, the text message method through 1800wxbrief works well - I have used it myself several times.

For me, to do it with FF I'd have to connect my iPad to my cell for internet service, open the plan, then disconnect it and reconnect to my Stratux box. Easier to just do the text thing, but that means doing the filing through 800wxbrief since FF doesn't push the flight plan to that website.

 

[CC268]

For me, to do it with FF I'd have to connect my iPad to my cell for internet service, open the plan, then disconnect it and reconnect to my Stratux box. Easier to just do the text thing, but that means doing the filing through 800wxbrief since FF doesn't push the flight plan to that website.

Gotcha I have cellular on mine so it is easy

 

[flyingron]

VFR or IFR? They are quite different. ATC doesn't care much about VFR flight plans.

This discussion doesn't make any sense for IFR. You don't "open" IFR plans.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Wow, I didn't even know I could do that. You can open a flight plan via text message? I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip.

Ditto for me. I figured FSS was stuck in the 1980s in that regard.

 

[denverpilot]

Wow, I didn't even know I could do that. You can open a flight plan via text message? I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip.

Ditto for me. I figured FSS was stuck in the 1980s in that regard.

Yup. You do have to have your cell number in your profile.

Which, when my profile was inexplicably broken (couldn’t access, couldn’t edit) and their tech support staff kept screwing around not doing what I asked (just delete the whole user account and profile so I can make a new one... nope... their contract must get them paid by the registered user... so freaking annoying) won’t work for over a year. LOL.

Oh yes, they’re still in the 80s. When something goes wrong, that is. Exchanging emails with the tech support staff for a real problem like that which wasn’t on their support script, was weeks in between communications, and incredibly annoying.

But yes. When it works, it works well. They’ll also use that cell number to ask you if you’re on the ground and safe if you forget to close the flight plan, and you can respond to that message and close it. (Don’t ask me how I know. Hahaha.)

 

[luvflyin]

Why not file it through 800wxbrief and then open it with a text message just before you take off? The only reason I open mine in the air is the poor cellular at my home drome.

This discussion doesn't make any sense for IFR. You don't "open" IFR plans.

Ya kinda do. Push throttle forward, pull stick back, get airborne. To close, pull throttle back and stick forward, land. Or cancel IFR, but then you are still in air with no flight plan.

EDIT: I was just being cute and trying to make a point. Of course if you land at an untowered airport you have to do more than just land. You have to tell them.

 

[John Collins]

With IFR, the terminology is different and who you contact is different. To open an IFR flightplan, the equivalent is to obtain an IFR clearance. To close an IFR flightplan, you either cancel with ATC in the air or on the ground at a non towered airport and if you land at a towered airport, the tower closes your IFR flightplan.

 

[bobmrg]

Wow, I didn't even know I could do that. You can open a flight plan via text message? I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip.

Too few pilots are aware of or take advantage of 1800wxbrief. Lots of service, just for the asking.

Bob

 

[Half Fast]

Too few pilots are aware of or take advantage of 1800wxbrief. Lots of service, just for the asking.

Bob

I just wish I could file with FF and see the plan on 800wx so I could use their text service. Maybe if enough of us make a request.....

 

[roncachamp]

Can I open a flight plan with center while on flight following? During private pilot training, we would take off, call up flight service, open the flight plan, and then call approach for flight following. I'm going to be departing KCHD to the north tomorrow morning for a cross country flight. I'll call up PHX approach right away so I can do the bravo transition. Can approach open my flight plan? Or do I need to ask for a frequency change, call flight service, open the flight plan and then call center back up and let them know I'm back on freq?

Yes, center can open your flight plan. They do it the same way a pilot does, with a call to FSS. Given that FSS does not answer phone calls from ATC any faster than calls from pilots the controller is unlikely to do you that favor if he has other traffic.

 

[denverpilot]

Too few pilots are aware of or take advantage of 1800wxbrief. Lots of service, just for the asking.

Bob

Well, not just for the asking... according to my 1040.

That’s the old joke though, “You’re paying for it via massive debt against your future earnings anyway. Might as well use it.”

 

[iamtheari]

How hard would it be to change VFR flight plans and flight following to work like IFR flight plans and, as I have seen it referred to in instrument rating study materials at some point, IFR flight following? The legal overhaul would be easy enough, assuming the FAA wanted it to happen. They're not afraid of changing flight services, as we saw with Flight Watch going away. But would it require a total overhaul of the computer systems between FSS and ATC or is it just a matter of replacing the "if this is an IFR strip, send it to ATC" in the code with a non-conditional that would also send VFR strips over?

I think that both flight following and VFR flight plans would be utilized more if they were handled more like IFR flights. Don't make them mandatory, but make it as easy as "ground, Bugsmasher 23 bravo with information charlie, VFR to Podunk" and a lot of these discussions will go away and be replaced with people just using these services.

 

[coloradobluesky]

Canadian towers and on the field Flight Service stations open and close VFR flight plans automatically. Flight plans are required, but, there are some exceptions.

 

[write-stuff]

I routinely have primary students open their flight plan first during cross-country flights, then contact approach to initiate flight following. It's good practice.

 

[flyingron]

Canadian towers and on the field Flight Service stations open and close VFR flight plans automatically. Flight plans are required, but, there are some exceptions.

Even when we had on field FSS they didn't do it automatically, though an on-field (not-automated) was listening to and providing advisories on 123.6 typically, so you could ask them to just open or close for you without a frequency change.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

I routinely have primary students open their flight plan first during cross-country flights, then contact approach to initiate flight following. It's good practice.

That’s what I had to do as a student. Got me in the habit.

Downside is, I feel like a rebel when I’m not on FF or VFR flight plan.

 

[cowman]

How hard would it be to change VFR flight plans and flight following to work like IFR flight plans and, as I have seen it referred to in instrument rating study materials at some point, IFR flight following? The legal overhaul would be easy enough, assuming the FAA wanted it to happen. They're not afraid of changing flight services, as we saw with Flight Watch going away. But would it require a total overhaul of the computer systems between FSS and ATC or is it just a matter of replacing the "if this is an IFR strip, send it to ATC" in the code with a non-conditional that would also send VFR strips over?

I think that both flight following and VFR flight plans would be utilized more if they were handled more like IFR flights. Don't make them mandatory, but make it as easy as "ground, Bugsmasher 23 bravo with information charlie, VFR to Podunk" and a lot of these discussions will go away and be replaced with people just using these services.

Yeah it's a good question seeing as how in most typical cases the pilot's process for getting their IFR clearance and opening their flight plan is identical to the process for getting flight following. Only thing I can think of is maybe it's an ATC workload issue since FF is optional for them vs mandatory for IFR.

 

[Palmpilot]

That would be my guess as well, and I suspect that a controller would need to use a voice line to FSS to open a VFR flight plan, since they are not routinely input into ATC computers.

 

[flyingron]

Even if they are in an ATC computer, the ATC computer can't "open" or "close" them. The processing of VFR plans as far as SAR procedures goes happens at the FSS computers.

 

[bgmac]

For me, to do it with FF I'd have to connect my iPad to my cell for internet service, open the plan, then disconnect it and reconnect to my Stratux box. Easier to just do the text thing, but that means doing the filing through 800wxbrief since FF doesn't push the flight plan to that website.

I actually have two I pads that I fly with. One is a backup, so you can leave one connected to stratix the other to cell service.

 

[iamtheari]

That would be my guess as well, and I suspect that a controller would need to use a voice line to FSS to open a VFR flight plan, since they are not routinely input into ATC computers.

That was my question, though. How hard would it be to change that, so ATC does file, open, and close VFR flight plans?

 

[iamtheari]

Yeah it's a good question seeing as how in most typical cases the pilot's process for getting their IFR clearance and opening their flight plan is identical to the process for getting flight following. Only thing I can think of is maybe it's an ATC workload issue since FF is optional for them vs mandatory for IFR.

Then they can say “unable flight following, suggest you try with Center; your flight plan is opened at 35 past the hour.”

 

[flyingron]

Yeah it's a good question seeing as how in most typical cases the pilot's process for getting their IFR clearance and opening their flight plan is identical to the process for getting flight following. Only thing I can think of is maybe it's an ATC workload issue since FF is optional for them vs mandatory for IFR.

Actually, it is not. If the IFR plan was filed properly, a strip has appeared in front of them. If not they can call it up provided it's in the system. If you have an IFR popup (i.e., not yet filed) or a VFR FF, they can enter an abbreviated plan in. They still can't open a VFR plan. A VFR plan takes a phone call to FSS.

 

[cowman]

Actually, it is not. If the IFR plan was filed properly, a strip has appeared in front of them. If not they can call it up provided it's in the system. If you have an IFR popup (i.e., not yet filed) or a VFR FF, they can enter an abbreviated plan in. They still can't open a VFR plan. A VFR plan takes a phone call to FSS.

Yeah I understand that but from the pilots point of view it’s the same so why does ATC have a different process and why can’t we change it so that it’s the same process?

 

[Palmpilot]

Yeah I understand that but from the pilots point of view it’s the same so why does ATC have a different process and why can’t we change it so that it’s the same process?

Money.

 

[flyingron]

Yeah I understand that but from the pilots point of view it’s the same so why does ATC have a different process and why can’t we change it so that it’s the same process?

Institutional momentum.

"ATC" doesn't have a different process. "ATC" handles IFR stuff. "VFR" goes to FSS. VFR services in the ATC system are bastardized out of the IFR procedures for the most part.

This is what happens when you had people like AOPA whining and crying when they wanted to consolidate the FSS services with ATC two decades ago.

 

[John Collins]

VFR is a different process, you don't have to talk with anyone at ATC. Once you activate your flightplan by using an App or a phone or the radio, FSS has your flightplan and calculates when you are supposed to arrive. A message is sent to the responsible FSS facility that puts your flightplan arrival +30 minutes on an alert list. If they don't receive a call or indication that you have closed your flightplan, they start a SAR process. Putting ATC into the loop would require contacting ATC even if you did not have a radio. The current system works well without adding additional duties for ATC. With today's technology you can activate your flightplan on the ground via an app or call 1800WXBRIEF. Or you can contact FSS via the radio. Too lazy to do any of that, too bad.

 

[denverpilot]

Another quandary. If FAA knows and teaches that Primacy is important, just merge the VFR Flight Following, squawk assignment, and flight plan open and closure (at controlled airports) into Clearance Delivery/Ground, so it’s just like the IFR system. Then folks transitioning to IFR don’t have to re-learn anything.

Only outlier would be departure from an “un-towered” airport (that’s for @Shepherd - ha!) and that’s similar as well. Just have the pilot call whoever they’d get their IFR clearance from there also, if they like.

And relegate FSS to backup to all of that.

But again, it’s a “do as we say, not as we do” scenario that’s completely inconsistent with the known issues in training pilots.

Especially pilots who haven’t called FSS for a briefing EVER these days with all the digital access to official weather.

Speaking of that... why the digital stuff can file and CLOSE a VFR flight plan but not OPEN one is beyond me. Slap five more minutes on it and hit a button while you’re still on the ground with cellular data and never talk to anyone, should be possible. But isn’t.

Especially since if you file it with Leidos directly they’ll send you a text or an email with a link to OPEN it if you have your aircraft and pilot profile built correctly.

The inconsistencies are dumb. If we want people to fly consistently from day one, they should drum out all of the old school pretense that we’re talking to the nice locals in the FSS building a hundred yards off of the airport boundary. With the removal of DUAT(S) we’re all just talking to Leidos’ computers anyway. Might as well just start treating VFR plans like IFR plans. The transponder is sending a discreet aircraft ID out whether the squawk is 1200 or not, in two years.

Well other than that one “naughty” transponder company that FAA isn’t so keen on that drops the identification when the squawk is 1200.

 

[Shepherd]

Flight regs are what you get when you appoint a committee to do anything.
denverpilot's ideas would work (even for all of us barbarians in un-towered fields.)
There could even be cost savings.
Sorry. It's the government. There are never cost savings. What WAS I thinking?
Maybe I better scratch tomorrow's flight until I get a check-up from the neck up.

 

[John Collins]

Speaking of that... why the digital stuff can file and CLOSE a VFR flight plan but not OPEN one is beyond me. Slap five more minutes on it and hit a button while you’re still on the ground with cellular data and never talk to anyone, should be possible. But isn’t.

It is done all the time with ForeFlight. Activate to open the flightplan before you depart, Close to close it after you land.

 

[denverpilot]

It is done all the time with ForeFlight. Activate to open the flightplan before you depart, Close to close it after you land.

Dont believe it can OPEN only FILE. Before I posted that little rant I double checked their docs to make sure, so if it the rant is incorrect, they need to update their FAQ on it.