Online presence?

N

nitsuj

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
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11
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Pittsburgh
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Display name:
Justin
Why does it feel like the world of general aviation is behind the times online. Maybe it's just in my area. But as I search for schools, instructors, or clubs, all I find are websites with outdated information, or little to no information. Broken links. Clubs list the email address of instructors who are no longer instructing, no longer with the club, or even have passed away. One local club, that appears to be very much active, last updated their website in 2013. An FBO company near me lists flight instruction as one of their services offered, but the instructors email address listed bounces, and a quick google of the instructor would indicate he left the company in 2012.

Aviation seems like such a technology driven field, but private aviation seems very behind the times. Is it because private pilots tend to be an older generation and aren't web savvy? Is it because schools don't have the money to stay current?

I'm not complaining or bemoaning the industry, it's just an observation I had, and I was genuinely surprised by it.
 
There's multiple factors. First off, there are quite a few flight schools and flying clubs as well as other GA businesses that maintain a modern standard web presence. Of the ones that don't, the reasons run from lack of savvy to lack of prior result.
 
The other thing to consider is that generally flight schools and FBO's aren't competitive, except maybe at larger airports, so the most rudimentary web site that gets their name and offerings out to someone searching will do the job.
 
Sounds like a business opportunity :) Send those links my way I'm happy to take on some extra work cleanin' up the crappy websites and info.

I agree though, it's a shame too since some really good schools are probably missing the boat by not keeping an updated website. And today with so many of the younger generation (who are used to looking online first for something) those businesses are effectively killing their audience.

I emailed a bunch of school's where I live for IFR training, got "email box full", email not accepted. Some contact forms were non-functional.

It would take such a small amount of effort to cleanup the sites, but the owners probably have bigger things to manage like maintenance on the planes, instructors, etc..
 
How many of the schools with no reply are still in business?
 
Henning I know of at least three that are still operating where I live. One of the schools that had an email box full eventually sent me a followup 2 weeks later.
 
Yea, I had the same thought when I was first looking into flight training in my area. It was like pulling teeth to get the basic information. Even a walk in visit to the FBO didn't help much, they sort of blew me off and I left without info. After a couple walk ins I was given a phone# of a CFI to call. The other FBO (which turned out to be a good one) didn't have anything about flight training on their web site(which is why I didn't go there first). Doesn't make sense to me if you offer flight training or rentals for flight training to at least put all the FAQ and answers on your web page. You can order a pizza from the web, but you can't figure out if an FBO has flight training or what that entails.
 
Henning said:
How many of the schools with no reply are still in business?
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If they're not in business, I would assume they wouldn't still have a website. That's sort of my point. I realize some places do keep up to date with their website, but it seems like a lot don't.
 
OkieAviator said:
Here you go... http://www.pghflight.com/ First link via Google...
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Thank you, I found them on google also. I've been to their site. But again, we're dealing with a website which, near as I can tell, was last updated in 2014, and has very little information other than a phone number. I'm not trying to say I can't find any place to call. I was just discussing my observation that compared to other industries, aviation seems lacking in the web department.

For the record, I have found an instructor, and I've been in contact with her. As soon as our schedules sync up and the weather cooperates, I'll get my discovery flight and move towards lessons. But it's odd that of all the schools I tried to contact, she was the only one who returned contact, and she's not part of a school but a private club. And her name isn't listed on their webpage as an instructor.
 
nitsuj said:
If they're not in business, I would assume they wouldn't still have a website. That's sort of my point. I realize some places do keep up to date with their website, but it seems like a lot don't.
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Yeah, most that don't, don't care, or don't have the abiltiy. It's not cheap to pay to keep a solid online presence. Many places can't justify it. In the end, the main business for most small operations is local walk up referred by a friend who is another student or pilot. Aviation isn't really an ecommerce business.
 
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nitsuj said:
Why does it feel like the world of general aviation is behind the times online. Maybe it's just in my area. But as I search for schools, instructors, or clubs, all I find are websites with outdated information, or little to no information. Broken links. Clubs list the email address of instructors who are no longer instructing, no longer with the club, or even have passed away. One local club, that appears to be very much active, last updated their website in 2013. An FBO company near me lists flight instruction as one of their services offered, but the instructors email address listed bounces, and a quick google of the instructor would indicate he left the company in 2012.
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I'm not sure it's aviation, but just company size. I look at small companies and the websites often suck regardless of industry. Larger companies have better websites. Aviation has lots of small companies. Maybe that's all it is?
 
Now if someone wanted to organize a Flight Training Guild that manages the online presence for an association of flight training facilities that can also negotiate a pool rate for insurance, they might have a nifty thing.
 
172andyou said:
I'm not sure it's aviation, but just company size. I look at small companies and the websites often suck regardless of industry. Larger companies have better websites. Aviation has lots of small companies. Maybe that's all it is?
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I think, as Henning pointed out, it depends on whether their business is ecommerce driven or not. Small print and graphics shops for example tend to have very professional looking websites. Mom and pop carpet cleaners, not so much.
 
I disagree, for example, you can go to some haircut place's web site, look at a calendar and make an appointment for a $15 haircut next Tuesday. I'm not talking high end salon, just a small business, not even a chain.

It doesn't cost that much(if anything) to publish info on the web. If they already have a page out there, whats the point if its stale or doesn't have any useful information. What more would it cost you to add text with current info, really? Even the smallest business, could use a free facebook page, anything.
 
nitsuj said:
Why does it feel like the world of general aviation is behind the times online. Maybe it's just in my area. But as I search for schools, instructors, or clubs, all I find are websites with outdated information, or little to no information. Broken links. Clubs list the email address of instructors who are no longer instructing, no longer with the club, or even have passed away. One local club, that appears to be very much active, last updated their website in 2013. An FBO company near me lists flight instruction as one of their services offered, but the instructors email address listed bounces, and a quick google of the instructor would indicate he left the company in 2012.

Aviation seems like such a technology driven field, but private aviation seems very behind the times. Is it because private pilots tend to be an older generation and aren't web savvy? Is it because schools don't have the money to stay current?

I'm not complaining or bemoaning the industry, it's just an observation I had, and I was genuinely surprised by it.
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Do you read AvWeb? Read Bruce Williams's blog? ASA is not a flight school, but they have current research pages. They have Readers Reference pages and Update pages. You may be looking in the wrong areas.

Bob Gardner
 
Justin, I'm part of a very active club in the Pittsburgh area. I'll send you a PM. New members are always welcome! We've got plenty of well maintained aircraft, active instructors and board, regular well attended meetings etc etc.
 
Katamarino said:
Justin, I'm part of a very active club in the Pittsburgh area. I'll send you a PM. New members are always welcome! We've got plenty of well maintained aircraft, active instructors and board, regular well attended meetings etc etc.
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Thank you for the reply! As it turns out, a member of your club was the one who responded to me, and put me in touch with one of your instructors!
 
nitsuj said:
Thank you for the reply! As it turns out, a member of your club was the one who responded to me, and put me in touch with one of your instructors!
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No problem, glad to hear you've linked up with us! The instructor you've been put in touch with is actually new to the club I believe, which is why their details aren't on the site yet. We'll have it updated soon :yesnod:
 
I don't know that the web presence of flight schools overall is really any different than small businesses as a whole. Yes, there are barber shops that you can book appointments online. There are also flight schools you can do that with. But there are many barbers, like flight schools, that have no web presence. How many dry cleaners have a web page? Some do, some don't. Lawn mowing services?

But I'm with you on the frustration level. Maybe you are in another city on business, and want to check out the local aircraft rental scene. Sometimes it's really hard to find that information without actually going to the airport first.

I think that while percentage-wise web presence may be similar to other businesses, a couple factors make it stand out:
1. Sheer numbers. There are lot of barbers in any city. There are only a few flight schools, so it's more noticeable when you search for "flight school" and don't get any results.
2. You drive by other small businesses all the time. For many, you don't need an internet search to find, so you don't bother trying. But you don't drive by the airport every day. So it's noticeable when you look for a flight school.

Flying clubs are a different story. A club that is full and has a waiting list really has no reason (from a marketing perspective) to have any real web presence. If the club is above a certain size, it becomes self-sustaining through word-of-mouth for new members. There may or may not be a web page for internal announcements, communication and such, but from a needing-new-members standpoint, it doesn't matter if you can find out about the club or not, because they already have a waiting list.
 
bobmrg said:
Do you read AvWeb? Read Bruce Williams's blog? ASA is not a flight school, but they have current research pages. They have Readers Reference pages and Update pages. You may be looking in the wrong areas.

Bob Gardner
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That is the problem, you have to go digging around weeding through the internet to possibly find information about the FBO down the street who's web page is worthless. The casual curious potential student/customer would benefit from a more direct/local link to said services/schools/instructors. There is too much reliance on word of mouth when with a tiny bit of effort the info could be at the fingertip of anyone any time anywhere.

The local link could be guiding the curious potential student to such info as Bruce's blog, ASA, etc.

You'd think it would be this easy:
You're at starbucks, google flight training yourtown usa, fbo or school link pops up, a quick glance, yes! they offer flight training, oh, they have these types of planes for these rates, and these links to what is involved in getting started, awesome.

Calling the FBO, you might not even reach anyone at the desk who even knows the answers.
 
Justin, I completely get where you're coming from. It's funny that you posted that because I felt exactly the same way when I started searching for information.... and I live in the Chicago area where you'd think websites would but pretty up to date. I was surprised how dated, non-existent, broken links etc. there is out there.
 
jimbilly said:
I disagree, for example, you can go to some haircut place's web site, look at a calendar and make an appointment for a $15 haircut next Tuesday. I'm not talking high end salon, just a small business, not even a chain.

It doesn't cost that much(if anything) to publish info on the web. If they already have a page out there, whats the point if its stale or doesn't have any useful information. What more would it cost you to add text with current info, really? Even the smallest business, could use a free facebook page, anything.
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If the page doesn't get hits, why bother?:dunno:
 
RussR said:
I don't know that the web presence of flight schools overall is really any different than small businesses as a whole. Yes, there are barber shops that you can book appointments online. There are also flight schools you can do that with. But there are many barbers, like flight schools, that have no web presence. How many dry cleaners have a web page? Some do, some don't. Lawn mowing services?

But I'm with you on the frustration level. Maybe you are in another city on business, and want to check out the local aircraft rental scene. Sometimes it's really hard to find that information without actually going to the airport first.

I think that while percentage-wise web presence may be similar to other businesses, a couple factors make it stand out:
1. Sheer numbers. There are lot of barbers in any city. There are only a few flight schools, so it's more noticeable when you search for "flight school" and don't get any results.
2. You drive by other small businesses all the time. For many, you don't need an internet search to find, so you don't bother trying. But you don't drive by the airport every day. So it's noticeable when you look for a flight school.

Flying clubs are a different story. A club that is full and has a waiting list really has no reason (from a marketing perspective) to have any real web presence. If the club is above a certain size, it becomes self-sustaining through word-of-mouth for new members. There may or may not be a web page for internal announcements, communication and such, but from a needing-new-members standpoint, it doesn't matter if you can find out about the club or not, because they already have a waiting list.
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Good points, makes sense. The volume of interest may just be too low or perceived to be too low in a lot of places, but you(the FBO/school) are not helping yourself any by not putting the info out there. Especially if you have a page out there already that has nothing to say.
 
Henning said:
If the page doesn't get hits, why bother?:dunno:
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Yes, I can see that point, but if you have a page, hits or no, whats the point if you have no info on it. I think there are a lot with generic pages that tell you next to nothing other than the phone#.
 
jimbilly said:
That is the problem, you have to go digging around weeding through the internet to possibly find information about the FBO down the street who's web page is worthless. The casual curious potential student/customer would benefit from a more direct/local link to said services/schools/instructors. There is too much reliance on word of mouth when with a tiny bit of effort the info could be at the fingertip of anyone any time anywhere.

The local link could be guiding the curious potential student to such info as Bruce's blog, ASA, etc.

You'd think it would be this easy:
You're at starbucks, google flight training yourtown usa, fbo or school link pops up, a quick glance, yes! they offer flight training, oh, they have these types of planes for these rates, and these links to what is involved in getting started, awesome.

Calling the FBO, you might not even reach anyone at the desk who even knows the answers.
Click to expand...

But if you walk into the FBO, now you can go flying. There is the entire, "wasting time on tire kickers" aspect to the Internet. At least people walking in the door you have a chance with.
 
jimbilly said:
Yes, I can see that point, but if you have a page, hits or no, whats the point if you have no info on it. I think there are a lot with generic pages that tell you next to nothing other than the phone#.
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Yep, probably they put up their first website in 1997 and found out it was a huge waste of time and money, but since it's there, put the phone number and address on it and let them come in.
 
Joe/Jane public casually wondering about flying has no idea you can call up a local CFI and be sitting in the left seat taking off on your first flight tomorrow(or in a few days depending on how busy the place is). I had no idea you could be at the controls on your first flight, I thought that was so cool.

If people knew how easy it was to get a taste, I think more people would try it.
 
Henning said:
But if you walk into the FBO, now you can go flying. There is the entire, "wasting time on tire kickers" aspect to the Internet. At least people walking in the door you have a chance with.
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Yea, but if you put all your info there, isn't that weeding out the tire kickers without having to meet them? People can read about it and decide its out of budget or too much work and move on. So when they come in they're more likely to be serious.

??
 
Henning said:
If the page doesn't get hits, why bother?:dunno:
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You don't need tons of hits though. I realize flight schools are a razor-thin margin business, but it's not like a domain costs much. If you can bring in a handful of people each year through the site, you've probably covered your costs.

There are plenty of tech nerds interested in flying, find one of them and offer maybe instruction time in exchange for building out a website; nothing fancy, just looks nice and easily maintained by someone who knows jack about computers (really not that hard for a low volume site). Heck, you get someone with enough drive, and they may just keep updating your site because they want to try out new programming techniques.

As for flying clubs, I think it's more along the lines of a nice-to-have. I just pulled up AOPA's new flying club finder a second ago and found 3 clubs in my area that I didn't know existed because they don't show up on Google... at all.

My 2 cents. Admittedly from what I understand GA took a huge hit (even relative to the industry across the country) in the St. Louis area during the recession and it's still struggling so maybe that's why web presence is so bad.
 
jimbilly said:
Yea, but if you put all your info there, isn't that weeding out the tire kickers without having to meet them? People can read about it and decide its out of budget or too much work and move on. So when they come in they're more likely to be serious.

??
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Not really, how does your info weed them out if they don't know what it means? The most you'll do is scare someone away with the prices that you could have talked into it.
 
In ye olde days of yore, it was a mystery how to put up a website, or edit it, or get people to visit it. But, now in 2015, its never been easier. A group can do a facebook page for free, and crowd source the content. You can upload videos to youtube, and if they're good, you can even generate some income with them. I watch quite a few GA youtube channels and they seem to get hits, so the market is there.
 
There's enough of a market for anything, but not for everyone to do the same thing. Getting YouTube videos to get watched to the the point of monetizing to any significance is not without expense, time, & effort, and there is no shortage of competition; plus they have to be good.
 
jimbilly said:
I disagree, for example, you can go to some haircut place's web site, look at a calendar and make an appointment for a $15 haircut next Tuesday. I'm not talking high end salon, just a small business, not even a chain.

It doesn't cost that much(if anything) to publish info on the web. If they already have a page out there, whats the point if its stale or doesn't have any useful information. What more would it cost you to add text with current info, really? Even the smallest business, could use a free facebook page, anything.
Click to expand...
I don't believe your example is a good one. Even a small "mom & Pop" salon can buy a software scheduling package, and pay to have it set up on the web. After the initial setup, it takes virtually no maintenance unless there is a problem. And in that case, they will be notified rather quickly.

Here is my example: I just sold my small business (a veterinary hospital). I consider myself rather tech savy. I'm not an expert, but I set up our web site and I was the web master. I was also the IT director for our server and 16 workstations. I was also the guy in charge of making sure the ultrasound, xray, laser and all the other tech gadgets were working correctly. I was also the HR guy dealing with hiring, firing, insurance, payroll etc. I was the book keeper and the maintenance man. I changed air filters and ran out to buy laser toner and toilet paper when we ran out. I had a hundred other hats depending on the crisis of the day. Upset clients, sick employees, or surprise inspections by the fire department, the department of professional regulations, the department of health, the department of labor and a host of other inspector/regulators all came to me. I put out fires. If our web site was 2 years out of date and nobody complained, it probably didn't get addressed very often. I couldn't afford to hire someone to maintain it for me and keep my prices reasonable (regardless of what some on this forum believe).

So the status of a web site is very much dependent on the size of the company and the resources available to them, and to how important the web site is to the daily operation of the company. Scheduling is a very important part of a hair salon, so it is understandable that they keep that part of their web site current.
 
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