Old topic, new story...MOAs

Fancy said:
All good points/questions.

1) Should've been more clear on A/C nomenclature. By B36ish I meant a Bonanza type aircraft. Since that is only one very specific variant I should've just said bonanza-ish. My apologies and I will be the first to admit that my recce timing was a bit tight.

2) Someone up there asked if we were talking and squawking. Yes, we all squawk modes 1-4. "Talking" is highly dependent on the MOA. They all have discreet frequencies which is almost always UHF (this should be changed in my view as I have never flown a GA aircraft with a UHF capability). In this case however, the local Approach controller controls the MOA and we were talking to them. Why they didn't warn us was a point of contention when we landed and there was a phone call placed to ask why we never got a warning. The answer was that they didn't see him and weren't talking to any civil traffic at the time.

3) Most, if not all, fighters do not have an ADS-B capability of any type. We actually don't know what is going to come of that for us. The current aircraft I fly will, for sure, never have this capability however.

4)

No one is being taught we "own" these pieces of airspace. We share them and in no way am I implying that GA can't go in there. By all means, go on through (I do when I fly GA, although I always ask if they're hot before doing so). But, just like anything else in aviation, that decision comes with some level of risk. There are ways to mitigate it on both sides and at the end of the day I am not aware of a GA/MIL midair in a MOA. Close calls do happen, and based on my experience are under reported. I can't go around and have a conversation with every pilot in north america. But I can post a story to this fine forum. I personally try not to do this type of training in MOAs for this exact reason. It freaks me out and I know pilots have differing views on their utility. Unfortunately circumstances beyond our control THIS time dictated different. As far as a mishap being your fault, absolutely not! No way. Nope. Nope. Nope. Where did I imply that? I do not want to give that impression. Ugh, NO! Unfortunately though the chances of a GA pilot surviving a midair of that type are next to none.[/QUOTE

I understood the B36 thing.

But it would be nice to have ADSB in military aircraft. I attended a local wings forum and the local Air Force safety range officer was there to give a talk about collision avoidance. He had no idea what ADSB was and was astonished when we pulled out our iPads and showed it to him.
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kyleb said:
Is it even legal to turn off your Txp if equipped?
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Only in Class G airspace.
There are only certain areas where a transponder is required, but if you are equipped, you are required to use it in any kind of controlled airspace. 14 CFR 91.125(c).
 
kyleb said:
Is it even legal to turn off your Txp if equipped?
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91.215(c)Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with § 91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.
 
There being two huge MOAs just east of Cincinnati, we were taught to always call and see if they are hot before flying through. Fly through anyway, of course, above the requested 2,500 minimum altitude, but keep your eyes peeled. I saw one, and only one, military aircraft in the MOAs, ever. We always hoped to fly formation with jet fighters, but I don't think they could fly at our 101 knot cruise.
 
Cooter said:
91.215(c)Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with § 91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.
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So if it's outside the 2 year, you turn it off.
 
Zeldman said:
Actually, when I read B36sh, this image popped into my head....


1200px-Russian_Bear_%27H%27_Aircraft_MOD_45158140.jpg
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That's a Bear Bomber, I don't know the designator. Twin clunter-rotating props on each engine, big red star on the tail. It ain't nothing from Boeing! But there is a photo of an actual Boeing B-36 bomber a few posts above yours.
 
Ugh, I remember that one. Like beating a dead horse. 5 pages worth. :(
 
I took the OP’s post as a helpful warning and reminder to all us GAers. You’d have to be crazy to not contact the responsible ATC before entering an MOA, hot or otherwise. If it’s hot, I’d be diverting if at all possible, and if not, I’d be squawking and talking to ATC the whole time.

Thank you for your service to us and our country.
 
Hank S said:
That's a Bear Bomber, I don't know the designator. Twin clunter-rotating props on each engine, big red star on the tail. It ain't nothing from Boeing! But there is a photo of an actual Boeing B-36 bomber a few posts above yours.
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There is no photo - anywhere, ever - of a Boeing B-36.
 
First off, Very nice to meet you, and props to you for your service!!
I can’t remember a single time that I was on ff that the controller, no matter their workload, didn’t give me a heads up on what was hot and what was not. With the quickly rising number of complete nuckleheads in the air, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he had absolutely no clue where he was. (I should also say I’ve seen a controller or two make a mistake) Thankfully your safe and I wish you did get his tail # if for nothing else to tell him “it was nice to meet you”
 
Kenny Phillips said:
There being two huge MOAs just east of Cincinnati, we were taught to always call and see if they are hot before flying through. Fly through anyway, of course, above the requested 2,500 minimum altitude, but keep your eyes peeled. I saw one, and only one, military aircraft in the MOAs, ever. We always hoped to fly formation with jet fighters, but I don't think they could fly at our 101 knot cruise.
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Be careful with that MOA. I live near ILN and there has been an uptick in activity over there lately it assumes. I've heard it's refueling training but that could be hangar gossip
 
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ateamer said:
There is no photo - anywhere, ever - of a Boeing B-36.
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Reminds me of the time I heard a tower controller refer to a B-29 as a "Boeing 29." (Even though it was designed by Boeing, as I understand it the "B" stands for "bomber.")
 
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