Old Flight Test Photos

wanttaja

En-Route
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
4,579
Location
Seattle
Display Name

Display name:
Ron Wanttaja
My EAA chapter has a "White Elephant" gift exchange as part of its Christmas party. People drop unwanted aviation stuff in a box, wrap it, and get them awarded randomly.
Most years, I end up with junk I just throw out anyway...a broken LORAN, a 40-year-old book on the airline industry, etc.

This year, though, I made out like a bandit: A copy of Gene Kranz's book, "Failure Is Not an Option". Always meant to read it; now I can.

The present came with some photos, though... some neat Boeing historical pictures, mostly involving testing aircraft.
1703194044281.png
Don't pay attention to the label on the tail....this is NOT a Boeing 707!

Rather, it is the Boeing 367-80, the prototype of what would become the 707 line. The fuselage has a tighter diameter (only fits five seats across), and the 707 had a six-seat-wide one (at the demand of one of the potential first customers).

Boeing cognoscenti refer to this plane as the "Dash 80."

The wings are slightly different as well.

But you see, Boeing also had military contracts as well... the Air Force wanted a jet tanker. The Dash 80 spawned the incredibly successful KC-135 Stratotanker as well. Which had the narrower fuselage of the Dash 80, as well as the different wing.

This picture is interesting for a couple of other reasons. First, the Dash 80 doesn't appear to be landing at a "normal" airport. Note the lack of concrete or asphalt. Not sure if the Dash 80 is landing on a dirt strip, or whether there's a paved runway behind the Cessna.

The Cessna, by the way, appears to be an early Cessna 210. Likely some employees used it to reach the place where the landing was to be done.

My WAG is that this is Moses Lake, where Boeing does a lot of its test work (in Eastern Washington, with better weather than the Seattle area).

Finally, I'll like my car-nut friends identify the car, but look...there's a big whip antenna on the back bumper, and some sort of pattern on the truck lid. Don't know what the pattern might be for.

Note that everyone seems to be wearing short-sleeve shirts, and no jackets. But long pants....
1703194163821.png
This is a good shot of flight test engineers at work. Note the seated man has a slide rule (NOT an aviation computer), and all four men are wearing parachutes (often required for flight testing).

Note the man in the foreground has a cigarette, and he and the man behind him are wearing ties.

Caption on the back of the photo says, ""Seattle to Wash DC -- Bell Whitehead, Ralph Bell".

Bel (only one "L") Whitehead was a test engineer for the Dash 80. His biggest claim to fame? He was aboard when Tex Johnston rolled the Dash 80 over the Lake Washington....and he took the famous photo in mid-roll.
1703194236035.png

1703194286041.png
When I saw this picture, I *knew* I'd seen the airplane before, but for the life of me, I couldn't remember its name.

The Internet comes to the rescue: It's the Boeing Quiet Short Haul Research Aircraft (QRSA). It was developed to study the feasibility of a powered-lift, short take-off and landing (STOL) transport airplane. A de Havilland DHC-5 Buffalo propeller turbine transport was modified at the Developmental Center at Boeing Field (where I started my Boeing career!) in 1978

And guess what: This plane is up for sale. NASA has it listed, with the highest bid at this time at $10,000!

1703194350280.png
Nothing major here...just the prototype Boeing 747 in formation with a Grumman F-111.

It's possible (albeit unlikely) that the 'Vark was being used as a chase plane during testing, but I have my doubts. The F-111 was an expensive airplane to operate, and Boeing always had a good stock of F-86 Sabres and T-33s.

In fact, the photo was probably taken by someone in the back seat of one of Boeing's T-33s ("T-Bird").

My guess was that this was just a publicity shot. The F-111 and the 747 entered service at about the same time.

The only clue on the back of this photo is "Flip W." I'm guessing that was the name of one of the people involved.

Ron Wanttaja
 
My EAA chapter has a "White Elephant" gift exchange as part of its Christmas party. People drop unwanted aviation stuff in a box, wrap it, and get them awarded randomly.
Most years, I end up with junk I just throw out anyway...a broken LORAN, a 40-year-old book on the airline industry, etc.

This year, though, I made out like a bandit: A copy of Gene Kranz's book, "Failure Is Not an Option". Always meant to read it; now I can.

The present came with some photos, though... some neat Boeing historical pictures, mostly involving testing aircraft.
View attachment 123481
Don't pay attention to the label on the tail....this is NOT a Boeing 707!

Rather, it is the Boeing 367-80, the prototype of what would become the 707 line. The fuselage has a tighter diameter (only fits five seats across), and the 707 had a six-seat-wide one (at the demand of one of the potential first customers).

Boeing cognoscenti refer to this plane as the "Dash 80."

The wings are slightly different as well.

But you see, Boeing also had military contracts as well... the Air Force wanted a jet tanker. The Dash 80 spawned the incredibly successful KC-135 Stratotanker as well. Which had the narrower fuselage of the Dash 80, as well as the different wing.

This picture is interesting for a couple of other reasons. First, the Dash 80 doesn't appear to be landing at a "normal" airport. Note the lack of concrete or asphalt. Not sure if the Dash 80 is landing on a dirt strip, or whether there's a paved runway behind the Cessna.

The Cessna, by the way, appears to be an early Cessna 210. Likely some employees used it to reach the place where the landing was to be done.

My WAG is that this is Moses Lake, where Boeing does a lot of its test work (in Eastern Washington, with better weather than the Seattle area).

Finally, I'll like my car-nut friends identify the car, but look...there's a big whip antenna on the back bumper, and some sort of pattern on the truck lid. Don't know what the pattern might be for.

Note that everyone seems to be wearing short-sleeve shirts, and no jackets. But long pants....
View attachment 123482
This is a good shot of flight test engineers at work. Note the seated man has a slide rule (NOT an aviation computer), and all four men are wearing parachutes (often required for flight testing).

Note the man in the foreground has a cigarette, and he and the man behind him are wearing ties.

Caption on the back of the photo says, ""Seattle to Wash DC -- Bell Whitehead, Ralph Bell".

Bel (only one "L") Whitehead was a test engineer for the Dash 80. His biggest claim to fame? He was aboard when Tex Johnston rolled the Dash 80 over the Lake Washington....and he took the famous photo in mid-roll.
View attachment 123483

View attachment 123484
When I saw this picture, I *knew* I'd seen the airplane before, but for the life of me, I couldn't remember its name.

The Internet comes to the rescue: It's the Boeing Quiet Short Haul Research Aircraft (QRSA). It was developed to study the feasibility of a powered-lift, short take-off and landing (STOL) transport airplane. A de Havilland DHC-5 Buffalo propeller turbine transport was modified at the Developmental Center at Boeing Field (where I started my Boeing career!) in 1978

And guess what: This plane is up for sale. NASA has it listed, with the highest bid at this time at $10,000!

View attachment 123485
Nothing major here...just the prototype Boeing 747 in formation with a Grumman F-111.

It's possible (albeit unlikely) that the 'Vark was being used as a chase plane during testing, but I have my doubts. The F-111 was an expensive airplane to operate, and Boeing always had a good stock of F-86 Sabres and T-33s.

In fact, the photo was probably taken by someone in the back seat of one of Boeing's T-33s ("T-Bird").

My guess was that this was just a publicity shot. The F-111 and the 747 entered service at about the same time.

The only clue on the back of this photo is "Flip W." I'm guessing that was the name of one of the people involved.

Ron Wanttaja
Pretty cool history!
Maybe PoA can band together with a GoFundMe and buy the fixxer-upper NASA QRSA (jokin'!), though a quick search from 5d ago shows the price is now a lofty 22k$! Currently about 1/6 the price of an average 172 on Trade-A-Plane.

Also... I can't imagine being on an airplane wearing a parachute... and a suit and tie... One of those things is entirely out of place ;)
 
I know testing was done on using the 747 as a heavy tanker, I wonder if that had anything to do with the F-111 photo? The DC-10/KC-10 eventually won that contract.

I've always known about the lineage of the 367-80 and the KC-135. Oddly to me though, the KC-135 always looks a little fatter than the 707. Probably just perspective or that most of the later 707 and its variants have a longer fuselage. I always wondered why the -135 didn't use the 707 airframe to be a little bigger.
 
This picture is interesting for a couple of other reasons. First, the Dash 80 doesn't appear to be landing at a "normal" airport. Note the lack of concrete or asphalt. Not sure if the Dash 80 is landing on a dirt strip, or whether there's a paved runway behind the Cessna.
I don’t think that’s Moses Lake. I did a lot of approaches there when flying EA-6Bs in the lates 80s and early 90s ( often sharing the pattern with 3-4 JAL 747s). If it was they would have just parked the 210 on the ramp. Instead I’m thinking that’s a dry lake someplace in CA or NV.
 

That's a 1960 Cessna 210 (first year of 210 production), and a 1964 Dodge. The Dash 80 as seen here is different from its first flight (7/15/54); it now appears to be wearing JT3D turbofan engines and the wing looks more like the 707-320 version, with greater chord in the inboard portion.
 
Finally, I'll like my car-nut friends identify the car, but look...there's a big whip antenna on the back bumper, and some sort of pattern on the truck lid. Don't know what the pattern might be for.
I'm gonna guess that the car is a early Dart or 330. Both were lower trim models, something the government might get the lowest bid on when purchasing cars.

That is my SWAG because this car is obviously wayyyyy before my time... :yesnod: (that's my story and I'm stickin' with it)

The other end of the whip antenna may be attached to a Motorola radio loaded with the greatest tubes of the day.
 
I don’t think that’s Moses Lake. I did a lot of approaches there when flying EA-6Bs in the lates 80s and early 90s ( often sharing the pattern with 3-4 JAL 747s). If it was they would have just parked the 210 on the ramp. Instead I’m thinking that’s a dry lake someplace in CA or NV.
You're probably right. I was thinking, since the photo was taken in the '60s, that the airport might have still been in a more-primitive condition. But with a bit of research, I see it had formerly been an Air Force base. Found dirt, somewhere I guess.

According to an article in Air and Space magazine, they did use the Dash 80 for mud runway testing for the contract that the C-5 eventually won. Interesting quote: "The aging airplane was landed on grass, dusty lake beds, soft earth, and even mud, using a landing gear system being considered for what would become the Air Force’s enormous C-5A Galaxy transport. The landing gear spread the weight of the aircraft over 20 tires instead of Dash 80’s 10. The tires’ flotation allowed the airplane to land on dust-covered mud only marginally more supportive than yogurt."

If you look at a stock photo of the Dash-80, you'll see the main gear trucks have four tires....
1703217912135.png
Yet in the photo I originally posted, it's sporting twice as many wheels!
1703217971552.png
We don't know "where", but I think we know "why"....

Ron Wanttaja
 
Showed some of the pictures at my EAA meeting last night. Ross, one of the guys, is the son of a Boeing Flight Test engineer from the 50s-70s, and he had these comments:
1705034272479.png
He said Boeing owned an early-model Cessna 210, and is positive this is that airplane. He says Boeing never flew the 210 for long distances...it's basic purpose was to ferry people to and from Moses Lake. So he thought this was Moses Lake.
1705034423427.png
I reproduced this one smaller here. Ross recognized the tie of the man standing on top. He says it's his dad....

How's THAT for a small world....

Ron Wanttaja
 
And is that a soda-acid fire extinguisher on the bulkhead? I would think those things would be, if used, very destructive to the airframe.

-Skip
I think if you need it, that bridge has already been crossed.
 
My guess on the fire extinguisher is pressurized carbon tetra chloride.

Relatively non destructive to the aircraft, evaporates away, used to clean electrical parts, etc.

HIGHLY TOXIC TO HUMANS, AND DEADLY IF USED ON HOT SURFACES. We had them on our trucks at the power company, and instructions were to use them fully, then abandon the room until it was ventilated. The company scrapped them all in the '60's.

My Dad had one in his car, our instructions were to move well clear if he used it on a car fire.
 
That’s not a Grumann F-111. Grumann did the F-111B for General Dynamics and it had a much shorter nose for carrier elevator suitability.
 
Back
Top