Olathe, KS plane crash 31Dec2019

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by Axtel4, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Axtel4

    Axtel4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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  2. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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  3. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    It's a Mooney
     
  4. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was flying at IXD when it happened. @ja_user and I walked into the FBO just in time for all the text messages to start blowing up the cell phones. IXD and OJC (the accident airport) are 7nm apart, I live between them. I haven’t heard details or names yet.

    edit: It just made the national news (watching it right now).
     
  5. Challenged

    Challenged Pattern Altitude

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    From Reddit: "This guy landed right before me and was there to look at buying a new M600 from the Piper dealer there. Multiple eye witness reports from pilots I trust say that the airplane nosed straight up in the air right after takeoff, stalled, then pretty much nosedived into the ground."
     
  6. Bulldog573

    Bulldog573 Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    Just saw it on Fox 4 in KC. Glad you guys are okay.
     
  7. jrcox19

    jrcox19 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Happened about 2 minutes after I drove by OJC headed home this afternoon.
     
  8. vcollazo

    vcollazo Filing Flight Plan

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    Sounds like he might have forgotten to reset trim for takeoff. A 45 or 50 degree bank while he trimmed might have saved him.
     
  9. lsaway

    lsaway Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I remember a time when there was a string of accidents that sounded just like this. They were all caused by the pilot seat sliding back when plane pitched up while pilot held onto yoke.
     
  10. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route

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    If that happened to me in a Mooney I wouldn’t be able to reach to yoke!
     
  11. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    That was my first thought.
     
  12. lsaway

    lsaway Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The logic is that pilot is pulling back on yoke for rotation. When the seat slides back, the pilot instinctively grips down on the yoke to stop the slide. The end result is that airplane is pulled into a stall and pilot can't push back to recover. There were some Airworthiness Directives on seat tracks on certain planes because of this.
     
  13. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route

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    I could see how that could happen. Quick and crappy way to go.
     
  14. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    Not saying it was the seat thing, but give it a little wiggle once set where you want it.

    Regarding any trim, reset to takeoff trim after your last landing. Most should be able to compensate for an out of trim condition.
     
  15. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Part of the checklist. Seats and seat backs locked. I grab the center frame post above the glare shield and give them a firm wiggle.

    As for trim, on my 201 I am always near, and sometimes am at full nose up trim over the numbers. It takes a really STRONG push to keep the nose down on go around until you get nose down trim back in.

    My one partner never resets trim after landing, I always put it back to takeoff but he never does. Again, it’s in the checklist several times.
     
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  16. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    We both always did that before takeoff, the right seater too should make sure the seat track is set. It will be interesting to see what they find in this case. :(
     
  17. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Mostly a Cessna thing; there were several ADs on it, including my plane.
     
  18. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    And why Cessna gave away the locking reel seat stops for several years. I paid to have one added to the right side, too. In my time that seat's more likely to slide because passengers aren't savvy on how to assure their seat is locked.
     
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  19. Rick A

    Rick A Filing Flight Plan

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    Good idea .... also open the cowl flaps, too. During the taxi back to wherever the plane will be shut down, there's absolutely no reason not to reconfigure the trim and cowl flaps for takeoff.

    Rick
     
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  20. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And non aviation passengers may instinctively grab the yoke when the seat suddenly goes back.
     
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  21. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    My routine is to do a "lights/camera/action" flow check entering the runway and a "lights/camera/action" flow check exiting the runway.

    I always point out to passengers things they can grab if they feel anxious, namely their shoulder harness, their door post and/or the edge of their seat.
     
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  22. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    They'll grab whatever they can reach when scared. My wife's seat has slid twice and the door unlatched in flight once. All were user errors. She knows better than to grab the yoke but that's exactly what she grabbed each time. Lucky for me the two seat events were while taxiing and the door was in level flight and I'm stronger than her. It's not to be taken lightly. I was never comfortable with Aerostops on my seat rail so no way I'd put one on hers. Cessna reels work great.

    I've talked to the NTSB after a couple of similar crashes. Seat rails and seat backs are things they look closely at.
     
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  23. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Crusty old curmudgeon CFI taught me to close the cowl flaps as the last step before locking the door. He said it may help keep birds and critters from getting up into the engine bay.

    Damn, that’s one I’ven never considered. Noted for future passenger briefs.
     
  24. Rick A

    Rick A Filing Flight Plan

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    Valid point if parked outside .... I guess a little smaller cowl flap opening hanging closer to the ground could discourage some critters from moving in. In the few years mine's been parked outside I used foam plugs with red banners. Inside the hangar wildlife has not ever been an issue.

    Rick
     
  25. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Since we already drifted..

    I was told by my CSIP to hit TOGA when entering the runway, that sets up the flight directors so should anything like that happen on takeoff you can engage the AP and potentially have a chance to live. AP button on Perspective is reachable for me at full seat back
     
  26. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    That’s one thing I always make sure to tell a first time flyer (and even seasoned ones too).

    ‘If for whatever reason your seat slides backwards, DO NOT grab the yoke.’

    I’m not sure how good it would do in a real event, but I do try my best to cover that during my pre-flight brief.
     
  27. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    How did he have you close the nose gear door? We always left the gear down and cowl flaps opened on the C177RG.
     
  28. PiperW

    PiperW Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My last thought before take off is nose down if engine lost.

    The seat not being locked in makes sense unless his copilot was a licensed pilot. Can’t see both seats not being locked in.

    wonder if they loaded a heavy package that shifted on take off.
     
  29. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Cleared for Takeoff

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    If the seat track has issues, doesn't matter if it's locked in. That was the reason for the Cessna AD.
    Think the speculation of that as the cause is a bit premature.
     
  30. PiperW

    PiperW Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Seat “track”issues I seriously doubt, not sure why you would think that. The track is a Fixed rail screwed down, if the screws are lose you would know it.

    The seat mechanism not properly engaged or locked into the track is a human error and quite common. Most of the time a little shifting of the seat locks it.

    trim is another theory or speculation, which is what we do.....speculate..
    Makes better pilots going over possible reasons why a plane falls out of the sky.
     
  31. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The big deal with the seat track is the hole in the track that the pin in the seat goes into wears and gets elongated. If the pin isn’t properly seated, it can slide out of the hole at best or not even seat at worst.
     
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  32. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    The funny thing about human brains is that they cannot think in the negative: "Don't hit your drive in the water" is a sure-fire way to get your buddy to do just that. Or the old "don't think of pink elephants" example from Psych 101.
    It would be far better to say something like "If for whatever reason [you incompetent seat adjuster] your seat slides backwards, cross your arms until we level off."
     
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  33. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My pax briefing generally includes - "Don't touch any controls. Feet on the floor and either sit on your hands or cross your arms." I always figure it's better to have their hands occupied before something happens than to expect them to react after something unexpected happens. Sometimes they want to take pictures, but in that case their hands are busy already. It's been a very long time since I've given a first-timer a ride, though. Even if I do tell someone to stay hands-off doesn't mean they will if they panic.
     
  34. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer En-Route

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    QUOTE="Matthew, post: 2852683, member: 351"]My pax briefing generally includes - "Don't touch any controls. Feet on the floor and either sit on your hands or cross your arms." I always figure it's better to have their hands occupied before something happens than to expect them to react after something unexpected happens. Sometimes they want to take pictures, but in that case their hands are busy already. It's been a very long time since I've given a first-timer a ride, though. Even if I do tell someone to stay hands-off doesn't mean they will if they panic.[/QUOTE]

    Those who are tardy, or dare touch the controls, do not get fruit cup!!

    diesel.jpg [
     
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