Oklahoma St. WBB coaches die in plane crash

jason

jason

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Oklahoma State University women's basketball coach Kurt Budke and assistant women's basketball coach Miranda Serna were killed Thursday night in a plane crash in Arkansas, the university confirmed Friday.

Two others - including the pilot - also were killed in the crash in Perry County, Arkansas. Those victims were not affiliated with the university, and there were no survivors.
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http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/1...tball-coach-two-others-killed-in-plane-crash/

Does anybody have details of the crash? What were they flying?
 
Four people on board. Coach, assistant coach, the pilot and his wife.

The pilot was former Oklahoma senator Olin Branstetter. He was 82 years old. Say what you will but that there were lots of red flags.

1. Age of the pilot.
2. Fully loaded 1964 airplane.
3. They crashed 45 miles from their destination
4. The couple were the first to ever fly a single engine plane over the north pole. Sounds like he may have been a little over confident based on prior success.


RIP to all
 
txnightster said:
Four people on board. Coach, assistant coach, the pilot and his wife.

The pilot was former Oklahoma senator Olin Branstetter. He was 82 years old. Say what you will but that there were lots of red flags.

1. Age of the pilot.
2. Fully loaded 1964 airplane.
3. They crashed 45 miles from their destination
4. The couple were the first to ever fly a single engine plane over the north pole. Sounds like he may have been a little over confident based on prior success.


RIP to all
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I don't think there's enough information yet to draw any conclusions.
 
Oklahoma State lost their basketball team in Colodado a couple years ago if memory serves me correct.

Very tragic.
 
txnightster said:
Four people on board. Coach, assistant coach, the pilot and his wife.

The pilot was former Oklahoma senator Olin Branstetter. He was 82 years old. Say what you will but that there were lots of red flags.

1. Age of the pilot.
2. Fully loaded 1964 airplane.
3. They crashed 45 miles from their destination
4. The couple were the first to ever fly a single engine plane over the north pole. Sounds like he may have been a little over confident based on prior success.


RIP to all
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Nothing there is a red flag.
 
From the AP: Perry County Sheriff Scott Montgomery said hunters called emergency officials about 4 p.m. Thursday after they heard the plane apparently in trouble, then saw it nosedive into a heavily wooded area.


"The plane was spitting and sputtering and then it spiraled and went nose first into the ground," Montgomery said.


"It went straight into the side of the hill," he said.
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Engine failure? Very sad.
 
Ten years ago, part of the team and broadcast staff.

Geico266 said:
Oklahoma State lost their basketball team in Colodado a couple years ago if memory serves me correct.

Very tragic.
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Irish_Armada said:
From the AP: Perry County Sheriff Scott Montgomery said hunters called emergency officials about 4 p.m. Thursday after they heard the plane apparently in trouble, then saw it nosedive into a heavily wooded area.


"The plane was spitting and sputtering and then it spiraled and went nose first into the ground," Montgomery said.


"It went straight into the side of the hill," he said.
--------
Engine failure? Very sad.
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Ice? Anyone know what the weather was like in that neck of the woods?
 
"The plane was spitting and sputtering and then it spiraled and went nose first into the ground," Montgomery said.

Sounds like the pilot got distracted with a rough running engine and then stall/spun it

Possible it was overloaded aft of CG if they had any baggage. Is that a year with the hershey bar wings? my experience with the tapered wings is that you would have to really put in some rudder to spin it.

Of course all speculation unless I saw it myself! Sorry for the passengers :( Hate to hear things like this. Always a real punch in the nuts to GA
 
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If if it seems like I'm drawing conclusions you are incorrect. I'm only pointing out facts that make me say "huh"

The age factor is something that causes ME to take notice. Call me ignorant but I don't even like driving near 82 year olds. Call me insensitive or not politically correct but your not changing my view on that.
 
Charles Blair flew over the north pole single engine back in 1951, so if this couple did it earlier we're talking about something that happened 60 years ago.

"The pilot was old" and "the airplane was old" have been the probable cause for essentially no accidents in the history of aviation.


Extrapolation from a few "facts" and witness reports is as reliable as reading tea leaves to determine the cause.
 
The older plane and pilot issue is such a dead horse for this community.

I don't understand how we can all agree that age negatively affects buildings, cars, people, dogs, roads, tools, medicine etc. etc. But the GA community defends old aircraft based on the inspections and annuals. Give me a break.Their are plenty of A&P mechanics that do terrible work and that isn't a secret to anyone.

I understand that their are thousands of older aircraft flying. Hell, I rent a 61' C150 from time to time. That aircraft goes thru the motions for it's inspections and I still find missing screws and other issues.

I just can't continue to defend older aircraft to be as safe as newer airplanes even when under control of competent pilots or even more competent pilots for that matter.

What's happening with older aircraft is unprecedented because we simply don't have the data to evaluate how 40+ year old planes will hold up. Do we really thing that the engineers in 1960 were expecting a 4 place plane to still be flying in 2011. It's amazing that they are still surviving but that doesn't make them as safe as newer aircraft.
 
txnightster said:
The older plane and pilot issue is such a dead horse for this community.

I don't understand how we can all agree that age negatively affects buildings, cars, people, dogs, roads, tools, medicine etc. etc. But the GA community defends old aircraft based on the inspections and annuals. Give me a break.Their are plenty of A&P mechanics that do terrible work and that isn't a secret to anyone.

I understand that their are thousands of older aircraft flying. Hell, I rent a 61' C150 from time to time. That aircraft goes thru the motions for it's inspections and I still find missing screws and other issues.

I just can't continue to defend older aircraft to be as safe as newer airplanes even when under control of competent pilots or even more competent pilots for that matter.

What's happening with older aircraft is unprecedented because we simply don't have the data to evaluate how 40+ year old planes will hold up. Do we really thing that the engineers in 1960 were expecting a 4 place plane to still be flying in 2011. It's amazing that they are still surviving but that doesn't make them as safe as newer aircraft.
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Do you have any stats to back up any of your claims above? Plenty of brand new aircraft being crashed too.
 
Glad to know that somebody has all the answers on this issue. In support of your position on this statement, please answer the following questions:

1. What mechanical defect have you determined to be the most significant cause of accidents involving older airplanes?

2. What is the latest date of manufacture that meets your definition of "older" airframes?

3. What is the latest date of birth that qualifies a pilot for being "younger" rather than "older."

4. What proof do you have for any of your answers?

5. Has it occurred to you that insurance companies would have long since adjusted the hull coverage premium rates if older airplanes were known to be present a higher accident risk than newer airplanes? Has that happened?

How old are you? Are you willing to bet $500 that I can't beat your ass at anything you want to do in an airplane?

txnightster said:
The older plane and pilot issue is such a dead horse for this community.

I don't understand how we can all agree that age negatively affects buildings, cars, people, dogs, roads, tools, medicine etc. etc. But the GA community defends old aircraft based on the inspections and annuals. Give me a break.Their are plenty of A&P mechanics that do terrible work and that isn't a secret to anyone.

I understand that their are thousands of older aircraft flying. Hell, I rent a 61' C150 from time to time. That aircraft goes thru the motions for it's inspections and I still find missing screws and other issues.

I just can't continue to defend older aircraft to be as safe as newer airplanes even when under control of competent pilots or even more competent pilots for that matter.

What's happening with older aircraft is unprecedented because we simply don't have the data to evaluate how 40+ year old planes will hold up. Do we really thing that the engineers in 1960 were expecting a 4 place plane to still be flying in 2011. It's amazing that they are still surviving but that doesn't make them as safe as newer aircraft.
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txnightster said:
The older plane and pilot issue is such a dead horse for this community.

I don't understand how we can all agree that age negatively affects buildings, cars, people, dogs, roads, tools, medicine etc. etc. But the GA community defends old aircraft based on the inspections and annuals. Give me a break.Their are plenty of A&P mechanics that do terrible work and that isn't a secret to anyone.

I understand that their are thousands of older aircraft flying. Hell, I rent a 61' C150 from time to time. That aircraft goes thru the motions for it's inspections and I still find missing screws and other issues.

I just can't continue to defend older aircraft to be as safe as newer airplanes even when under control of competent pilots or even more competent pilots for that matter.

What's happening with older aircraft is unprecedented because we simply don't have the data to evaluate how 40+ year old planes will hold up. Do we really thing that the engineers in 1960 were expecting a 4 place plane to still be flying in 2011. It's amazing that they are still surviving but that doesn't make them as safe as newer aircraft.
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My 1963 Airplane is safer today than the day it rolled off the showroom floor in 1963.
 
bartmc said:
My 1963 Airplane is safer today than the day it rolled off the showroom floor in 1963.
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And my 83 is as well.


And I'd bet that just because it's a couple decades younger doesn't make it safer.

EDIT

Infact if anything I'd bet your plane may be better off as it's engine has probably been cracked open since Reagan's first term.
 
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txnightster said:
If if it seems like I'm drawing conclusions you are incorrect. I'm only pointing out facts that make me say "huh"

The age factor is something that causes ME to take notice. Call me ignorant but I don't even like driving near 82 year olds. Call me insensitive or not politically correct but your not changing my view on that.
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I would drive side by side with an 82 yr old, and mimic every move he made waaaaaaaaaay before I would agree to do the same with a 16 or 17 yr old. And not because the 16 yr old is capable of doing things I can't.

On the other hand, I whole heartedly agree that there are definitely old people that should not be allowed to drive or fly. Was this 82 yr old pilot one of them? I have no idea.
 
txnightster said:
If if it seems like I'm drawing conclusions you are incorrect. I'm only pointing out facts that make me say "huh"

The age factor is something that causes ME to take notice. Call me ignorant but I don't even like driving near 82 year olds. Call me insensitive or not politically correct but your not changing my view on that.
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Statistically you're probably correct to avoid senior drivers but individually I know several 80+ year old drivers I'd rather ride with or drive near than several 30-40 year old drivers I've witnessed. As to the loading of the plane, yes four big folks and full fuel would be a problem but without knowing the total payload and quantity of fuel it's hard to make any guesses as to the plane's W&B. In any case busting the gross weight or even CG limits is not likely to result in a "nosedive into the ground".

I'd also like to point out that in a huge percentage of small airplane accidents, at least one witness will claim that he heard the engine "sputtering" before the crash whether or not the engine was operating normally so statistically that report is more likely misleading than not.
 
dell30rb said:
Possible it was overloaded aft of CG if they had any baggage. Is that a year with the hershey bar wings? my experience with the tapered wings is that you would have to really put in some rudder to spin it.
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Hershey bar wings into the 1970s. The 1969 Arrow I fly now and then has them. Glides like a rock.

I'm having trouble imagining two people in the back seat. That had to be uncomforatable. There's no room back there in a PA-28 (until they stretched them, again in the 1970s).
 
Good Lord, calm down the forum chest bumping. Wayne & Jessie. I'm sorry that I have touched a nerve with two people that collectively have over 13,000 posts. It appears that having a different opinion than the moderators or admins is an immediate challenge to the collective thinking. No wonder pilots have such a glowing reputation with the general population.

Wayne:
1. The pilots that fly them.
2.1970
3. 1946 The airlines use 65 for a reason. I don't think it is so they can spend money new pilots. It's because the age of the pilots is a liability.
4. They are my answers, not my facts. I clearly said that these were some of the items that made me say "huh" Huh aint fact.
5. I don't look at the insurance companies to tell me what to fly or how to fly it.

Your challenge makes me wonder how mature you are as opposed to how old you are. I'm not interested in a competition with you. I only try to fly safely, my application to fly in the Red Bull races was denied year after year.


You are correct that all 16yr old's aren't fit to drive. You are also correct that all 80 yr old's aren't fit to drive.
 
txnightster said:
Good Lord, calm down the forum chest bumping. Wayne & Jessie. I'm sorry that I have touched a nerve with two people that collectively have over 13,000 posts. It appears that having a different opinion than the moderators or admins is an immediate challenge to the collective thinking. No wonder pilots have such a glowing reputation with the general population.

Wayne:
1. The pilots that fly them.
2.1970
3. 1946 The airlines use 65 for a reason. I don't think it is so they can spend money new pilots. It's because the age of the pilots is a liability.
4. They are my answers, not my facts. I clearly said that these were some of the items that made me say "huh" Huh aint fact.
5. I don't look at the insurance companies to tell me what to fly or how to fly it.

Your challenge makes me wonder how mature you are as opposed to how old you are. I'm not interested in a competition with you. I only try to fly safely, my application to fly in the Red Bull races was denied year after year.


You are correct that all 16yr old's aren't fit to drive. You are also correct that all 80 yr old's aren't fit to drive.
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+1......................

Ben.
 
Come to think of it.
I'd rather start a pool of money for the victims based on how much fuel is found in the tanks.
My "flying competition" money says that zero usable fuel is found on board.
 
txnightster said:
Good Lord, calm down the forum chest bumping. Wayne & Jessie. I'm sorry that I have touched a nerve with two people that collectively have over 13,000 posts. It appears that having a different opinion than the moderators or admins is an immediate challenge to the collective thinking. No wonder pilots have such a glowing reputation with the general population.

Wayne:
1. The pilots that fly them.
2.1970
3. 1946 The airlines use 65 for a reason. I don't think it is so they can spend money new pilots. It's because the age of the pilots is a liability.
4. They are my answers, not my facts. I clearly said that these were some of the items that made me say "huh" Huh aint fact.
5. I don't look at the insurance companies to tell me what to fly or how to fly it.

Your challenge makes me wonder how mature you are as opposed to how old you are. I'm not interested in a competition with you. I only try to fly safely, my application to fly in the Red Bull races was denied year after year.


You are correct that all 16yr old's aren't fit to drive. You are also correct that all 80 yr old's aren't fit to drive.
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I am with you on this...

"Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose. I'll be right back. Don't you go dying on me!" Loyd
 
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My uncle was forced to retire as an American Airlines' captain at age 60 in April 2001. Did they raise the age limit to 65?
 
in response to fully loaded plane...

I looked on controller briefly, another 1964 pa28-180 listed has a useful load of 1068. Thats enough for 4 adults, overnight bags, and 4 hours fuel.
 
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txnightster said:
Good Lord, calm down the forum chest bumping. Wayne & Jessie.
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Please show me where I was "chest bumping". I simply asked you to provide references for the statements you were making. Perhaps you could just stick to the facts and discussion like I'm trying to do?
 
Jesse, Fact: the plane crashed and 4 people died in arkansas. RIP

Fact: this is a forum for people involved in aviation, not a courtroom. We have the privilege in these forums to make suggestions, state opinions and discuss.

I'm sure the innocent victims families haven't wondered about the age of the pilot and the aircraft.

Of course their opinion isn't fact based so they should also wait until the FAA report to draw any conclusions.

Please, call me prejudice but I don't have time to meet every person or every pilot in America. I have to be able to form opinions about people based on what I can see when I can see it.

Should we continue to discuss this accident or shall we wait until we get the report from the FAA?
 
This is truly a sad event. OSU hasn't had good luck with flying and basketball teams. Unfortunately I have to say the school already slightly frowns on the aviation side even though it didnt have anything to do with any of the pilots/aviation programs associated with OSU.

Here's the report from 2001's King Air crash: http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/4kxrbu45upq20c2vtjze1r451/K11182011120000.pdf

Probable cause: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20010208X00421&key=1
 
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txnightster said:
If if it seems like I'm drawing conclusions you are incorrect. I'm only pointing out facts that make me say "huh"

The age factor is something that causes ME to take notice. Call me ignorant but I don't even like driving near 82 year olds. Call me insensitive or not politically correct but your not changing my view on that.
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compromisedemotivator.jpg
 
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