Okay Ford Truck fans: Name this noise

denverpilot

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Alright Ford gurus...

What is this noise?


Details are both in the audio of the video and the description at YouTube.

But to reiterate those:

Truck must be in gear. Moving or stopped and held by the brakes doesn't matter.

Forward or reverse, doesn't matter.

Seems to follow engine RPM but "winds down" after a light tap of the gas pedal/power addition and then clicks back into a "locked" state.

So what component spins up at addition of power but locks stopped when idling at a stop?

I haven't been able to find it.
 
Got a card stuck in your spokes?

I'm almost always wrong about this stuff so I won't say much, but "driveshaft clicking ford" gets a lot of returns on Google. Surely the F-150 forum will have the answer.
 
The driveshaft noise happens when you put it in drive, you get a "clunk". It's caused by the slip yoke becoming dry and sticking then releasing with the clunk. Easy fix with teflon grease. If it's 4wd it's possible that it's the IWE's, that is the vacuum mechanism that locks in the hubs. However, I think you have to be moving for those to chatter. My best guess is a timing chain/timing chain tensioner/cam phaser issue.

ETA: Nate if you want to send me a message with your vin I can look at some vehicle specific stuff like TSB/SSM and symptom code data when I get to the dealership tomorrow.
 
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Cam Phaser noise doesn't just occur when in gear, it sounds more akin to a diesel when at idle. Driveshaft clunk is a single noise when put into gear, not chatter with rpms, same goes with 4x4 IWE ratcheting (only happens when vehicle is moving).

I'd guess possible timing belt tensioner/guide issue, even though I don't know why it'd be only present when in gear. Almost sounds like valvetrain slap which could be cam phaser related I suppose, but I still don't know why it would be gear-dependent.



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Man I thought it was going to be something serious. Follow these steps to fix:

1. Get a Chevy



I'm sorry that wasn't helpful. Wait....No I'm not. I can't wait until my current Ford kicks the bucket. It will be my last. Sick of 'em!
 
On a serious note, if it only occurs when in gear, it seems like it would almost have to be something to do with the tranny.

This kind:
2

Not this kind:
Caitlyn-Jenner.jpg
 
Man I thought it was going to be something serious. Follow these steps to fix:

1. Get a Chevy
2. Call Mike to get a salvage bid



I'm sorry that wasn't helpful. Wait....No I'm not. I can't wait until my current Ford kicks the bucket. It will be my last. Sick of 'em!
 
Chevrolet - can hear every valve rattle on long extended trips
 
If it happens when stopped then it it ain't drive shaft. He said it's gotta be in gear, don't happen in neutral. I'm puttin my money on it's in the torque converter.
 

Yup. Triton.

Someone is pranking you and put a zip tie on your drive shaft?

Haha well it's not rotating when sitting stopped with foot on brake so... :)

ETA: Nate if you want to send me a message with your vin I can look at some vehicle specific stuff like TSB/SSM and symptom code data when I get to the dealership tomorrow.

Will send.

Man I thought it was going to be something serious. Follow these steps to fix:

1. Get a Chevy

Already have one. It's CEL came on last week. No kidding. I recently "carefully put away" my OBD-II scanner and now, it's no-effing-where to be found. Haha. I parked the Chevy until we figure out what's up with the Ford. LOL. When it rains... plus I think the Chevy is just going to be a misfire code. It probably needs plugs. :)

If it happens when stopped then it it ain't drive shaft. He said it's gotta be in gear, don't happen in neutral. I'm puttin my money on it's in the torque converter.

That's what I'm afraid of right now. The noise seems to be coming from under the truck and behind the engine compartment. Which... sucks.

I'll get ya the VIN Mike. Much obliged.
 
I think the Lincoln Mark LT has the 4V 5.4L, not the 3V like F-150s use. Slightly different animal on the valve train.


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Agreed that I think it's your timing chain and cam phasers. A colleague just had this done on his 2008 Ford Expedition XL.
 
Additional info.

Fluids all look good. Clean, etc. (I'll never get used to how light 5W-20 looks, and it bugs me.)

One oddity though. Truck is many hours cooled right now and trans fluid *seems* pretty significantly overfilled. But that stupid dipstick is like the long snake from hell, and like the oil dipstick on my Dodge diesel is usually all wrong.

The good part is, it's red, and clean, and no signs of anything burning up or chunks of anything sticking to the stick on the way out. For whatever that's worth.

Admission a gear head never wants to make but here it is: I don't do fluid changes on HER truck. She gets them done "wherever" and generally maintains her own vehicles. This is for marital sanity and bliss because I'm too picky about when and how I do the other three vehicles and we learned a long time ago, she can handle her vehicle just fine UNLESS there's a noise. She simply doesn't hear them. I first heard this one as she pulled into the garage last weekend.

I drove it today to get a better listen because it can come and go a little bit. Or so I thought. But I think it's really there all of the time.

Well at least it doesn't seem to be fluid levels or doing any mixing of fluids that shouldn't be mixed. :) That's a plus. It also drives fine and no signs of power loss or anything like that. Drivetrain otherwise sounds normal and I've also cycled it into and out of both 4WD high and low just to make sure this wasn't a 4WD system issue.

That whole "tick tick tick tick" slowing with engine RPM and then "click" as it stops when the engine hits idle nearly screams "torque converter" to me like it's stopping when the TC unlocks or disengages. Honestly I only know the dumb Chevy auto trans behavior so I don't know if there's a portion of the Ford that spins up until idle/stoped and then disengages but just normal knowledge of auto trans tells me that has to happen in there.

Funny thing is, the Yukon trans is getting a little "sloppy" shifting and I figured THAT trans would go before hers in her pampered "bling truck"... but maybe life is going to toss a curve ball here.

Told her it's up to her if she wants to drive it. It's probably not doing it any good, but I don't think it'll leave her stranded (yet). Momma ain't real happy when she can't drive her truck. Maybe I'll have her leave it parked tomorrow and will get a shop appointment for it. We do have other stuff to drive, after all. That's probably smartest. Ugh.
 
The 5.4L blows...wasn't built by Ford that's why
 
The 5.4L blows...wasn't built by Ford that's why

There's a lot of them out there. And of course they have the spark plug seizing problem, but that's a well known thing at this point.

Overall the engine is pretty sound. Not quite as bulletproof when abused as the Chevy 5.3 but they're kinda both in the same class of "annoying" when you compare the common problems with each.

It ain't a Cummins 5.9, I know that! Ha.

@jesse is going to tell me to go trade it off on a new Ford with the EcoBoost next... haha...
 
I think the Lincoln Mark LT has the 4V 5.4L, not the 3V like F-150s use. Slightly different animal on the valve train.

It's a 3V in this model year. Couldn't tell ya what they did in other years of this thing, but 2008 was the last year of Lincoln badging and the LT.

Agreed that I think it's your timing chain and cam phasers. A colleague just had this done on his 2008 Ford Expedition XL.

I think the sound certainly sounds like that, but I cant jive that with it following engine RPM after a brief throttle tap in gear, and slowing like it's winding down and then "click" and stopping, and only in gear.

Other stuff folks have seen on these, crap rattling in the cats, or heat shields falling down and sitting on things, etc... loose stuff...

But... the consistency of how locked it is to engine RPM and that sudden click and stop as the engine falls back to idle, really says "torque converter" to me. It's the only thing spinning at engine RPM that would also stop at idle.

Which sucks. But at least it isn't the transmission.

If I find out it's just a damned fan clutch I'm going to be relieved and annoyed. LOL. But it doesn't seem to be that far forward.

Any thoughts on how this could be the timing chain and cam phasers while still doing that "click and stop" thing as the RPM falls back to idle, lemme know. ??

I think we've decided that we shouldn't drive it anymore, until it heads to a shop, and I think without a lift, I'm not up for dropping a trans or a torque converter out. Nor do I have a really safe way to operate it in gear while using a stethoscope (or wooden dowel rod) to find the exact source of the noise.

So... I'll make some calls tomorrow to a couple of shops I have good references on. We really needed to find a shop we trust out here in the boonies anyway (I do most of the maintenance on the vehicles but some stuff I just don't want to do) and our last good shop that isn't our Dodge diesel specialty shop that we liked to use, closed up... knew the owner forever, but he finally decided to retire... and it was clear back into and across the whole city from here anyway.

So we're in mechanic hunting mode. Preferably out here closer to the prairie home.

I hate to say it, but this is why I swore off Fords in my youth. If the torque converter is bad at 150,000 that's incredibly annoying. I know the truck hasn't ever towed anything. Ever. Not even before we owned it. This drivetrain has led a wholly stress free life.

Unlike the Yukon, which has towed all sorts of stuff and things it probably shouldn't have towed. Or we're right at its towing capability and in rolling hills doing a LOT of shifting with heavy loads.

I can forgive the Yukon transmission for slipping a little. This truck? Not so much.

Probably won't be able to get it anywhere until Friday. Then a holiday weekend. So probably won't know until after the holiday.

Karen says she's cool putting around in "Box of Dirt" the 2000 Subaru Outback for now, but I have been told that there will be a serious cleaning done to the old beast this weekend or else. Haha.

The big dog doesn't like the Subaru much but he'll survive. I'll cart him around in the Yukon as much as possible. He's a little cramped in the Subaru with his head able to touch the ceiling if he tries. :)
 
"What is a cracked flex plate?"
 
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For reference, my new to me 06 Expy had cat innards melted due to abuse by teens, apparently (which I knew going in and the price was right). They had the same sound frequency with a different type of tick or rattle, which went away when I replaced the cats.

And now I have an accurate voice to use while reading your posts, thanks!
 
There's a lot of them out there. And of course they have the spark plug seizing problem, but that's a well known thing at this point.

Overall the engine is pretty sound. Not quite as bulletproof when abused as the Chevy 5.3 but they're kinda both in the same class of "annoying" when you compare the common problems with each.

It ain't a Cummins 5.9, I know that! Ha.

@jesse is going to tell me to go trade it off on a new Ford with the EcoBoost next... haha...

Yup I had a 5.4 and never had any trouble with it. Now I have a 2014 F150 Ecoboost. I'll never go back to the v8 again
 
There's a lot of them out there. And of course they have the spark plug seizing problem, but that's a well known thing at this point.

Overall the engine is pretty sound. Not quite as bulletproof when abused as the Chevy 5.3 but they're kinda both in the same class of "annoying" when you compare the common problems with each.

It ain't a Cummins 5.9, I know that! Ha.

@jesse is going to tell me to go trade it off on a new Ford with the EcoBoost next... haha...

Precisely. The 5.4L is a solid engine, just like GM's 5.3L variants. It has some downfalls like the CAM phaser design and plastic timing belt guides, but otherwise it's a solid engine that's been used since 1997. The 5.3L has a bad reputation for blowing head gaskets and burning a good bit of oil on the cylinder-deactivation models. Hundreds of thousands of each engine have been built, and more of them go without problems than have major failures, so that has to say something for Ford/GM.
 
"What is a cracked flex plate?"

The flex plate or also called the flywheel, is the part that connects the crankshaft of the engine to the torque converter. It has the ring gear that the starter engages with. They can develop cracks, usually around the bolts that connect to the crankshaft, but sometimes in other places and can cause noise and/or vibration.
 
Aside from the possibility of a cracked flexplate, I really don't think it's tranny related. Since you came back and added that you now think it's there all the time, just worse under load when it's in gear, I'm still inclined to think CAM phasers/VCT. The TC doesn't lock up at idle and shouldn't be doing much of anything that would change sounds. The CAM phasers will be adjusting themselves just off of idle such that it would cause the noise with engine RPM. Next question is, does it do it only when cold, or also on a hot engine?
 
The flex plate or also called the flywheel, is the part that connects the crankshaft of the engine to the torque converter. It has the ring gear that the starter engages with. They can develop cracks, usually around the bolts that connect to the crankshaft, but sometimes in other places and can cause noise and/or vibration.

Yea, I know. I was responding to the OP question with a Jeopardy (TM) style response.
 
Aside from the possibility of a cracked flexplate, I really don't think it's tranny related. Since you came back and added that you now think it's there all the time, just worse under load when it's in gear, I'm still inclined to think CAM phasers/VCT. The TC doesn't lock up at idle and shouldn't be doing much of anything that would change sounds. The CAM phasers will be adjusting themselves just off of idle such that it would cause the noise with engine RPM. Next question is, does it do it only when cold, or also on a hot engine?

Yeah I know where you're going with this and Mike mentioned off list that it's still way more likely this is cam phasers. Just by the numbers.

After reading up on it, I'm leaning that way now too. I've never had a Ford that had them so didn't know how they worked, but now that I see what they do, and how they do it, it's probably those.

Mike was able to confirm for us a rumor we were pretty sure knew about the truck. It was shipped to Hawaii once and back. ;) Kinda neat.
 
Talked to a local-ish shop, family shop for three generations (I already like that) and tons of good references to them.

Guy said "yeah, it's probably the cam phasers, that's the noise" and that they'd look at the truck on Tuesday after the holiday.

He also mentioned Ford makes a specific parts kit for this problem, since it's fairly common.

Also got a rapid cost number that isn't shockingly bad. I definitely don't feel like doing this one in the garage.

Thanks for the info all. I think I would have continued to think it was in the torque converter from my hours behind Chevys.
 
Sorry to read that it's likely the cam phasers. This is an anomaly only with the Triton series of engines. But if you have any interest, a 1994-1996 Ford F150 Lightning would be a hoot, and with a 351 Windsor motor, it's stout, trouble-free and parts and cheap and plentiful.
 
One oddity though. Truck is many hours cooled right now and trans fluid *seems* pretty significantly overfilled. But that stupid dipstick is like the long snake from hell, and like the oil dipstick on my Dodge diesel is usually all wrong.

Trans fluid is checked with engine running.
Start the engine, go through every gear selector position, then back to P or N, and then check it.
 
Sorry to read that it's likely the cam phasers. This is an anomaly only with the Triton series of engines. But if you have any interest, a 1994-1996 Ford F150 Lightning would be a hoot, and with a 351 Windsor motor, it's stout, trouble-free and parts and cheap and plentiful.
The Lightning was a hoot for its time, but it certainly doesn't ride like a modern truck does. His Lincoln LT is a Mercedes compared to the pre-97 trucks. If I were looking at a Lightning, the early '00 models with the SC'd 5.4L 2V are real screamers with better handling/ride. I honestly can't complain about the 5.4L Triton engines, 2V or 3V, as I have put 150K on a few of them and never had a problem with any of the CAM phasers or spark plug blowout (2V) or breakage (3V). Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I also run a 351W in the boat, which is about as solid as it gets for a V8 small block Ford, and have no issues.

Meanwhile, the wife's 5.3L GMC has 02-sensor check engine light, as well as the TPMS going haywire and burns 1.5-2 qts of oil in 6K miles. My LS4 V8 in the GXP burns about the same! I'll happy when the GM stuff is out of the driveway for a while given my recent luck with them!
 
Trans fluid is checked with engine running.
Start the engine, go through every gear selector position, then back to P or N, and then check it.

Yeah I know. Was just a cursory look and most dipsticks have a cold and hot mark. Apparently "her" truck doesn't. ;)

It's like when the dogs misbehave they're her dogs, and when they're good they're my dogs. :)

This is DEFINITELY "her" truck right now. LOL.
 
Nate, I think your plan to have the local shop take a look is a solid plan. I see these jobs regularly in our shop and while it isn't rocket surgery, there are some tools that the average guy doesn't have. You can do it without them, but it sucks. I am gonna crawl back in the weeds now, but let me know if I can help further.
 
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