OK guys -- help us site our next aviation-themed hotel and win a free night!

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jay Honeck
We've been in negotiations to buy a Gulf Coast hotel since April, with the intent of converting it into another aviation themed hotel similar in size and scope to our current one, the Alexis Park Inn & Suites in Iowa City, IA. Sadly, the seller has turned out to be a fruit loop, with continuously changing prices and conditions. One minute we think we have a deal, and then he backs out without warning. His own realtor has given up on him, and we've decided to move on.

So -- I need your help! I've spent hundreds of hours poring over real estate ads, but who would know better than our fellow pilots where we should put our next aviation themed hotel? Here are the four main things that we're looking for in any potential location:

1. Sunbelt. No more winter.

2. Must be near (within a golf cart ride) to a good-sized GA (preferably uncontrolled) airport.

3. Must have *some* other draw besides aviation and/or the airport, be it (a) the ocean, (b) a major theme park, (c) a major university.

4. Existing hotel/motel must be larger than 20 units, smaller than 50, so we can maintain our unique "delivered-to-the-suite" breakfast service. We have no interest in creating another McHotel chain.

Okay -- so anyone know of a hotel/motel in their market that meets these parameters? It doesn't have to be in top-notch physical condition -- we actually favor sweat-equity projects. The best suggestion gets a free night at our hotel!

Thanks!
 
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Without having been there for a while and not knowing what is currently on the market I am just guessing, but.............. Marathon Fla, in the keys has great potential, so does Ceder Key on the west coast of Fla. Just remember you will be self insuring because most if not all insurance companies will not write policies on coastal properties... One major storm and you are all washed up.... Sorry for the pun.


Ben
www.haaspowerair.com

Ps. put me on the list for the pool party and a night at the inn... I am 99% sure the "beast" is flying to OSH this year. God willing and the gremlins don't bite.
 
Without having been there for a while and not knowing what is currently on the market I am just guessing, but.............. Marathon Fla, in the keys has great potential, so does Ceder Key on the west coast of Fla. Just remember you will be self insuring because most if not all insurance companies will not write policies on coastal properties... One major storm and you are all washed up.... Sorry for the pun.
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Yeah, we've looked at the Keys some thanks for the tips.

BTW, another "must" in our search is that the area not be too over-built. A place like (for example) Key West is chock-full of beach-front hotels that are selling for $4 million and up. Those are "investment" purchases, made by folks who are sheltering money and aren't necessarily concerned about making a daily/weekly/annual profit. We seek a hotel -- perhaps not in the greatest shape -- that can be bought, fixed up, and OPERATED at a profit.

Ps. put me on the list for the pool party and a night at the inn... I am 99% sure the "beast" is flying to OSH this year. God willing and the gremlins don't bite.
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Sorry, Ben -- we're sold out for the July 25th pool party. That could (and probably will) change, with people flying in from all over the country, so just plan on flying in and I'll find SOMEWHERE for you to lay your head. (We allow camping on-site, and there are plenty of other motels in the area...)

If worse comes to worse, we'll put you in our dorm building. It's rather spartan, but it's air conditioned!

:)
 
N801BH said:
Without having been there for a while and not knowing what is currently on the market I am just guessing, but.............. Marathon Fla, in the keys has great potential, so does Ceder Key on the west coast of Fla. Just remember you will be self insuring because most if not all insurance companies will not write policies on coastal properties... One major storm and you are all washed up.... Sorry for the pun.


Ben
www.haaspowerair.com

Ps. put me on the list for the pool party and a night at the inn... I am 99% sure the "beast" is flying to OSH this year. God willing and the gremlins don't bite.
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I've been to MTH several times and I don't recall any lodging establishments within golf cart distance (heck the airport is almost too large for golf cart commuting. I suspect that the price of land is rather precious there as well, but it wouldn't be the kind of winter getaway that could be found in FL.

I'm wondering if there's something that would work near the Wisconsin Dells. There are three airports within 15 miles: Dells (KDLL, Reedsburg (C35), and Portage (C47), all of which are pretty nice.

That would be an easy commute from IA by airplane as well.
 
Jay:

This sounds like an exciting adventure. There are so many possibilities across the country that the choices must be mind boggling!

Are you leaving Iowa permanently?

Unfortuately, I know ziltch about the Gulf coast. Should you decide on an East Coast location, well... I can think of a few. Ocracoke Island, NC (W95) immeadiately comes to mind. Great beaches, excellent fishing, completely different attiude and pretty laid back. Decent airport within walking distance. Not always a year-round place, but certainly 8-10 months of the year. Of course, there is that issue of hurricanes! A bit further northeast is Frisco NC (HSE). Similar airport, but at the moment, there are very few lodgings within walking (golf cart) distance. The airport would probably get more traffic if there was a place to stay.

Will be interesting to see what your choice finally turns out to be!

Gary
 
gismo said:
I've been to MTH several times and I don't recall any lodging establishments within golf cart distance (heck the airport is almost too large for golf cart commuting. I suspect that the price of land is rather precious there as well, but it wouldn't be the kind of winter getaway that could be found in FL.

I'm wondering if there's something that would work near the Wisconsin Dells. There are three airports within 15 miles: Dells (KDLL, Reedsburg (C35), and Portage (C47), all of which are pretty nice.

That would be an easy commute from IA by airplane as well.
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If Wisconsin Dells is in the "sunbelt" then I guess Michigan is fair game too ;)
 
I'm thinking some place in Lake Havasu City or possibly near Las Vegas, NV would be super sweet and a good money maker.

Avoid Albuquerque. lol
 
I'm wondering if there's something that would work near the Wisconsin Dells. There are three airports within 15 miles: Dells (KDLL, Reedsburg (C35), and Portage (C47), all of which are pretty nice.
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Sorry, Lance -- we're originally from Wisconsin, and are trying to ESCAPE winter! :nono: We fly into those airports all the time, and the only one that might work would be the Dells -- but for just five months out of the year. Also, that town is the worst kind of "one-trick-pony" -- small hotels need multiple revenue streams (a university, a nearby museum, a beach, etc.) to survive in this economy.

Beyond our desire to escape from winter, there is another very good reason why anything we consider must be in the sunbelt, preferably on the coast: GA is still doing well down south, 12 months per year. GA in the upper Midwest is dead, dead, dead.
 
This sounds like an exciting adventure. There are so many possibilities across the country that the choices must be mind boggling!

Are you leaving Iowa permanently?
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Probably not. We'll still have the Alexis to run, albeit with staff from afar. Our son will still be at the U of Iowa, in the ROTC program -- so we'll be zipping back and forth a lot.

Unfortuately, I know ziltch about the Gulf coast. Should you decide on an East Coast location, well... I can think of a few. Ocracoke Island, NC (W95) immeadiately comes to mind. Great beaches, excellent fishing, completely different attiude and pretty laid back. Decent airport within walking distance. Not always a year-round place, but certainly 8-10 months of the year. Of course, there is that issue of hurricanes!
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We've been to Ocracoke Island, and really enjoyed it -- but there simply isn't enough traffic to make it work. It's just a bit too far north, or it would be perfect!

A bit further northeast is Frisco NC (HSE). Similar airport, but at the moment, there are very few lodgings within walking (golf cart) distance. The airport would probably get more traffic if there was a place to stay.
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Interesting, but again -- prolly too far north. We need a place that has fly-in traffic 12 months per year.

Will be interesting to see what your choice finally turns out to be!
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This has been a maddening process -- we were already making preparations to enroll our daughter in the high school at the location we THOUGHT we were purchasing -- and the thought of starting over from scratch is not a pleasant one. Of course, most sellers aren't crazy, so hopefully the next property we find will be easier to obtain...

:smile:
 
tonycondon said:
curious what your basis is for this statement?
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Statistics and personal observation.

Our FBO's biz is down over 50% from last year -- a year that sucked compared to 2006 and 2007. Our fly-in biz is waaaaay off at the hotel, probably down even more than 50%.

Even on nice days, the hangar doors around here are closed. Mary and I still fly twice per week, but we're often the only ones on the frequency.

Compare this to Texas (where we thought we were buying a property), where there wasn't five minutes without a light single overhead. It was SOOOO refreshing to see.

Funny thing is, the locals were bemoaning how "down" their traffic was. Mary and I just chuckled, knowing that they couldn't possibly understand how "dead" an airport could get....
 
You might look along the Gulf Coast of Texas. Port Aransas is the #1 destination there, followed by Galveston and Brownsville.

I have a fishing shack near the Rockport Texas airport. Rockport isn't a prime tourist destination except for fishermen. It does have an excellent GA airport with business friendly government.
 
Jay Honeck said:
We've been to Ocracoke Island, and really enjoyed it -- but there simply isn't enough traffic to make it work. It's just a bit too far north, or it would be perfect!

Interesting, but again -- prolly too far north. We need a place that has fly-in traffic 12 months per year.
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Yes, understand the traffic issue, shame though, you would have at least two people there at least twice a year!!

Gary
 
It appears to be 1/3 more in the south.

3,919,663 in the southern region
2,142,671 in the great lakes region.

Yikes.
 
Jay, I'm thinking Galveston might be your ticket...

Pros:
- Just got hit by hurricane, so property can be had for relatively cheap (tourism is really starting to bounce back though)
- Decent beaches
- Good shopping
- Great airport with two large runways (former air base, so has typical triangle of runways, one of which is now a taxiway)
- Airport has a world-class aviation museum on it (http://www.lsfm.org)
- Airport also has Moody Gardens (popular attraction with botanical gardens and aquarium) and Schlitterbahn (huge water park) within walking/golf cart distance.
- NASA's Johnson Space Center/Space Center Houston visitor's center is only ~30 mins away by car
- Houston is only ~45 mins away by car or ~15-20mins away by plane for more shopping, restaurants, and attractions

Cons:
- Potential for hurricanes
- Tourism still hasn't fully bounced back, but they are doing some heavy advertising to try to get people down there.
- Pre-hurricane, there were a plethora of hotels and resorts down there, including the Moody Gardens hotel right next to the airport. I'm not sure what it's like now, but I'm actually going to the island for the weekend in a couple of weeks... I can scope it out and let you know. I'll also look for hotel properties near the airport, if you'd like.
- Once again, the hurricane recovery stuff is still happening, so I don't know what kinds of restaurants and shops are available again. Once again, I'll be able to tell you more after my weekend there.

Let me know what you think!
 
SkyHog said:
It appears to be 1/3 more in the south.

3,919,663 in the southern region
2,142,671 in the great lakes region.

Yikes.
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You need to normalize those operation to based aircraft in the region to have any meaningful data conclusions. Total ops just tell you about traffic from year to year in one region.
 
Jay, The beach locations are awesome but can still be seasonal even in parts of florida, Have you considered a spot somewhere in the Mountains. I know you are trying to stay away from the cold and Certainly places like upstate PA and NY or VT or Western Mass can get cold but you can find some places in the mid atlantic and south east with mountains Think TN, WV, NC that would be perhaps a bit warmer.

While beaches may be dead in winter except for certain spots ( usually built up IMHO) The mountains offer Skiing, Snow shoeing and other Winter sports attracting lots of folks. The ski mountains are packed from WV through Maine in the Winter and early Spring. But Folks love to go to the mountains in the fall for leaf tours and in the summer for the cooler weather and outdoor activites such as hiking, fishing, camping, mountain biking, off roading and four wheeling etc.

Its just a thought. Perhaps you can find a spot in the Southern Moutains warm enough for you. Off the top of my head I'm thining of places like Lynchburg VA that are also college towns.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Sorry, Lance -- we're originally from Wisconsin, and are trying to ESCAPE winter! :nono: We fly into those airports all the time, and the only one that might work would be the Dells -- but for just five months out of the year. Also, that town is the worst kind of "one-trick-pony" -- small hotels need multiple revenue streams (a university, a nearby museum, a beach, etc.) to survive in this economy.

Beyond our desire to escape from winter, there is another very good reason why anything we consider must be in the sunbelt, preferably on the coast: GA is still doing well down south, 12 months per year. GA in the upper Midwest is dead, dead, dead.
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http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=448610&highlight=iowa#post448610

:smilewinkgrin:
 
Don't really know a lot about the hotel situation, etc, but one spot that came to mind is Mobile, AL. On the Gulf, Mobile Bay, Dauphin Island, Gulf Shores across the bay, etc. They now have Carnival cruise ships sailing out of Mobile. Flew down last year, spent a night in a B&B and took a taxi to the ship. I hear they have a big established Mardi Gras there, predating New Orleans. An hour drive from Pensacola and the Naval Air Museum. There is a Regional and a downtown airport and a couple small ones across the bay. There is also a Lambert's across the bay. Maybe a spot to check out.
 
smigaldi said:
You need to normalize those operation to based aircraft in the region to have any meaningful data conclusions. Total ops just tell you about traffic from year to year in one region.
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Exactly. And that dataset is for towered operations. Non-towered operations are a big guess.

Here's what our friends at AOPA say about the situation of late:


Flight Activity
Overall, measures of flight activity were down compared to the previous year. Center activity fell behind last year’s figures by 19%, while activity at towers decreased by 45%. YTD numbers for center and tower operations are the lowest they’ve been in ten years.

Total gallons of AV Gas sold fell behind last year’s fourth quarter numbers by 14%. The average regional price for a gallon of Avgas fell by $0.09 to $4.68 as compared to December 2007, when it was $4.77 (Excluding Hawaii and Alaska) as reported by 100LL.com.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/trend.html

That's only a 2% fuel price drop for a 14% demand drop - I guess there's some kind of inelasticity going on there...

But then again, wasn't it AOPA who was saying (via Jay) that fuel prices had dropped so dramatically?

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=446462&postcount=1

It's all so confusing...maybe investing in macaroni futures would be better...


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Exactly. And that dataset is for towered operations. Non-towered operations are a big guess.

Here's what our friends at AOPA say about the situation of late:


Flight Activity
Overall, measures of flight activity were down compared to the previous year. Center activity fell behind last year’s figures by 19%, while activity at towers decreased by 45%. YTD numbers for center and tower operations are the lowest they’ve been in ten years.

Total gallons of AV Gas sold fell behind last year’s fourth quarter numbers by 14%. The average regional price for a gallon of Avgas fell by $0.09 to $4.68 as compared to December 2007, when it was $4.77 (Excluding Hawaii and Alaska) as reported by 100LL.com.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/trend.html

That's only a 2% fuel price drop for a 14% demand drop - I guess there's some kind of inelasticity going on there...

But then again, wasn't it AOPA who was saying (via Jay) that fuel prices had dropped so dramatically?

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=446462&postcount=1

It's all so confusing...maybe investing in macaroni futures would be better...


Trapper John
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My gut tells me that flying is down. I see at my own airport that two mechanics were laid off due to lack of work. But I have no idea how large the decline is nation wide nor do I have any hard facts on who is being hit the most.
 
Well, I know this is counter to your model, but you could look in the Penobscot Bay, Maine.

Operations would only be 6 months/year, but then all your staff would be <6 months per year except your management. 3 bedrooms uninsulated shacks in Lincolnville rent for $1,800 per week in summer, i've seen $2,400 for the nicer ones.

Real Estate Values in Washington County a bit down east are quite modest and the taxes reflect that.

Machias (which is further downeast) comes to mind! there are a number of tour attractions in the area- including Campobello, Grand Manan Island, Acadia, Greenville (all GA destinations). I'm still hoping to retire in Surry, ME, eventually......
 
JimNtexas said:
You might look along the Gulf Coast of Texas. Port Aransas is the #1 destination there, followed by Galveston and Brownsville.

I have a fishing shack near the Rockport Texas airport. Rockport isn't a prime tourist destination except for fishermen. It does have an excellent GA airport with business friendly government.
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Port A, on Mustang Island, is where we were looking to buy. Still am, if we can find the right property -- we fell in love with the island, the airport, and the people.
 
geneseib said:
Don't really know a lot about the hotel situation, etc, but one spot that came to mind is Mobile, AL. On the Gulf, Mobile Bay, Dauphin Island, Gulf Shores across the bay, etc. They now have Carnival cruise ships sailing out of Mobile. Flew down last year, spent a night in a B&B and took a taxi to the ship. I hear they have a big established Mardi Gras there, predating New Orleans. An hour drive from Pensacola and the Naval Air Museum. There is a Regional and a downtown airport and a couple small ones across the bay. There is also a Lambert's across the bay. Maybe a spot to check out.
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If I were looking to put some sort of 'destination' hotel in that area, I would look closer to Gulf Shores/Orange Beach or maybe around Destin/Ft. Walton area. Gulf Shores was wiped clean by a hurricane a few years ago. Not sure how much they have rebuilt by now. Growing up in northwest Alabama, our annual vacation destination was the Gulf Shores/Orange Beach area. There is a large outlet mall in Foley as well as a Lambert's restaurant. Close to Pensacola and Eglin AFB (airshows, etc.) Several "Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail" courses are in the area. There is a decent Civil War museum/state park in the area.

The area has 'peak' and 'off-peak' times, but the 'off-peak' times aren't as dismal as areas such as Wisconsin Dells.

As mentioned, Mobile has a fairly large Mardi Gras party, but other than that and the annual Shrimp Festival, I don't remember many folks going to Mobile as a 'vacation destination'. That could have changed by now, though - I haven't been down to that area in 10 years or so.
 
Well, I know this is counter to your model, but you could look in the Penobscot Bay, Maine.
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If you're trying to get Mary to divorce me, this is probably the best suggestion yet!

:p
 
AdamZ said:
Jay, The beach locations are awesome but can still be seasonal even in parts of florida, Have you considered a spot somewhere in the Mountains. I know you are trying to stay away from the cold and Certainly places like upstate PA and NY or VT or Western Mass can get cold but you can find some places in the mid atlantic and south east with mountains Think TN, WV, NC that would be perhaps a bit warmer.

While beaches may be dead in winter except for certain spots ( usually built up IMHO) The mountains offer Skiing, Snow shoeing and other Winter sports attracting lots of folks. The ski mountains are packed from WV through Maine in the Winter and early Spring. But Folks love to go to the mountains in the fall for leaf tours and in the summer for the cooler weather and outdoor activites such as hiking, fishing, camping, mountain biking, off roading and four wheeling etc.

Its just a thought. Perhaps you can find a spot in the Southern Moutains warm enough for you. Off the top of my head I'm thining of places like Lynchburg VA that are also college towns.
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Good ideas -- we haven't thought of that area, although we're very fond of that part of the country.

One thing we're hoping for is lots of VFR weather, too. Weekend getaway flyers are, by and large, fair-weather flyers. Mountains can be tricky, for that, no?
 
FWIW, pre-hurricane Galveston had the third-largest Mardi Gras celebration in the country - behind New Orleans and St. Louis.
 
Jay, I'm thinking Galveston might be your ticket...
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Yep, we've thought so, too -- just haven't gotten there yet.

- Pre-hurricane, there were a plethora of hotels and resorts down there, including the Moody Gardens hotel right next to the airport. I'm not sure what it's like now, but I'm actually going to the island for the weekend in a couple of weeks... I can scope it out and let you know. I'll also look for hotel properties near the airport, if you'd like.
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That would be greatly appreciated, PJ. Any info you can provide would be excellent.

This experience is a lot like buying an airplane. The one you think is good is 1200 miles away, so you spend a bunch of money going to take a look at it -- only to discover that it sucks. Repeat ad nauseum. Sooner or later, you find that cream puff!

:smile:
 
Jay Honeck said:
Wow -- that is a COOL website. And scary.

Cedar Rapids (CID -- our nearest controlled facility, just North of Iowa city) GA flying is down 25% since 2004. And that's through 2008; 2009 is much worse.

:frown3:
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I'd be a little cautious about about drawing big conclusions from the dataset. GA may be down at CID, but is that because of the economy, or because there are more GPS approaches now and people are using the new approaches and skipping the controlled airport?

We could test that idea if we had good uncontrolled airport data, but that's much harder to come by.

Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
I'd be a little cautious about about drawing big conclusions from the dataset. GA may be down at CID, but is that because of the economy, or because there are more GPS approaches now and people are using the new approaches and skipping the controlled airport?
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Possible, but unlikely, given the statements made by our local FBOs. All claim business is down 50% or more, year-over-year. Those statements, combined with our personal observations (flying in empty skies, and hotel business-wise) are pretty convincing evidence that GA has dropped dramatically, at least here in the Midwest.

Another data point: The FAA guys at CID are talking about downgrading the tower, due to declining usage. This isn't something they do casually, or without justification, since it impacts their pay grade(s).

The real question is: When will GA flying come back? Is this an economic cycle WRT GA flying, or a demographic cliff that we've driven off of? (I.E.: The WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam pilots are all hanging it up -- and there are too few pilots behind that generation to keep the ball rolling?)

Time will tell.
 
Its not a coastal area, but why don't you try and buy Gaston's, I think it is time for a new owner.:yesnod:
 
Dean said:
Its not a coastal area, but why don't you try and buy Gaston's, I think it is time for a new owner.:yesnod:
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+2, but I don't think Jay would get the "fixer-up sweat-equity deal" he's looking for at Gastons!
 
I don't know of anything for sale at either place...but
Biloxi or Gulfport, MS- Coming back from Katrina, gambling places, I saw fishing charter boats available. Just an observation from a day trip.

New Orleans, LA- New Orleans, restaurants, departure for cruise ships, Mardi Gras experience, maybe get some trade show traffic. Downside is the crime. I like the place.

For hotels in the size range you listed, consider looking in the American Indian newspapers such as India Abroad. The families are often buying and selling properties in that size range. You can probaly look at the classifieds on-line.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I don't know of anything for sale at either place...but
Biloxi or Gulfport, MS- Coming back from Katrina, gambling places, I saw fishing charter boats available. Just an observation from a day trip.

New Orleans, LA- New Orleans, restaurants, departure for cruise ships, Mardi Gras experience, maybe get some trade show traffic. Downside is the crime. I like the place.

For hotels in the size range you listed, consider looking in the American Indian newspapers such as India Abroad. The families are often buying and selling properties in that size range. You can probaly look at the classifieds on-line.
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Isn't is pitiful that an American has to look at an Indian magazine for real estate in the US. We gave those offshore non residents a real sweetheart deal, they amased most of the hotel/motel market using huge tax credits in their favor and now they want to sell it back to us .... Only in the USA.....:frown2::frown2::nonod:
 
N801BH said:
Isn't is pitiful that an American has to look at an Indian magazine for real estate in the US. We gave those offshore non residents a real sweetheart deal, they amased most of the hotel/motel market using huge tax credits in their favor and now they want to sell it back to us .... Only in the USA.....:frown2::frown2::nonod:
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Actually, they are selling it to each other. Not too many Americans read those newspapers. Lots of gas stations and convenience store listings too, although it does sound like a cliche. Most of these places aren't owned by non-residents- the people who buy the properties work in them with their families. That cuts the labor costs down considerably.

Back to the topic at hand-
I wonder if anything around Homstead or Daytona FL are available? NASCAR, FL beaches, etc.
 
I haven't followed the thread, but assume you've looked at the Fredericksburg, TX facility. The hill country might be a good place to explore.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm thinking some place in Lake Havasu City or possibly near Las Vegas, NV would be super sweet and a good money maker.

Avoid Albuquerque. lol
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I'm heading down to Lake Havasu City this weekend for a long weekend with the Mrs. We found lots of small hotels on the internet, a few nice "resorts", and the airport is about 8 miles north.

There has been a lot of development at the airport, and a lot of places offer free transportation from the airport to town and back.
 
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