# of hours for proficiency

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skelrad

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Skelrad
At what point do you feel like the number of hours you're flying is low enough that it affects your proficiency/safety? 1 hr a week, 1 hr a month...?

The idea of keeping current (regardless what the regulations say), is very important to me for safety. I'm just getting started as a student pilot, but am curious how much people fly each year and at what point you start to feel rusty. My dad, for example, flies with an instructor buddy of his for a refresher if he's had to go more than a few months without any stick time. He says it's probably a little unnecessary, but at 70 years old his muscle memory isn't what it used to be and he thinks it's wise for him.

Just trying to figure out how much I need to budget for flying each year in order to get enough time to stay safe. That's my starting number.
 
To fly a light non-aerobatic single engine plane VFR safely I want 10hrs a month, with one flight per week. Any rare then that the proficiency starts to decrease.

Once you bring twins, acro, and IFR into it, it becomes a whole different story.

Realistically, it depends on how proficient you think it's acceptable to be.
 
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Like to fly twice a week ,now that I'm retired do about 130 to 160 a year.
 
I've been as low as 25 hours a year, but the bulk of those hours were spent practicing landing, maneuvers, etc, with at least an hour with an instructor every 6 months. Note: only good VFR flying. If you're flying 25 hours a year and 20 of them are straight and level, that won't cut it.

For light IFR flying, I feel I need 60+ hrs/yr, with at least couple flights with a CFI per year.

Also, I've been flying the same 182 for 10 years now, which is much different than a renter who isn't always flying the same plane.

Jeff
 
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I fly 2 hours once every 2 weeks and that's fine for me.
 
10 hours a month ideally, but total landings are more important. I try to fly once a week.
 
For a "normal" single engine, I think no less than every other week, no less than 50 hrs per year.

The last few years I've averaged 80-ish.

Back when I was flying 250+ hours per year, I didn't "fly" the airplane, I "wore" it. That much flying definitely puts one in an airplane zen.
 
I had 27.5 hours in 2013. I got my ticket last October. I am trending lighter this year. But hopefully I'll soon have weekend access to a club plane that'll allow more flying. Most of my post-checkride flying has been of the "practice" variety, which I do enjoy. I'll end up just doing maneuvers and then head back for landing practice.

I feel reasonably proficient but if it's been a number of weeks since I flew I'll usually grab my instructor to go up with me.
 
It took me around 200 hours in each, the Stearman and the mooney, to really feel I was in tune with cross winds, short fields, patterns- not having to look at the speed indicator after entering pattern etc. I've not flown either in over 10 years but would not hesitate to fly either VFR. With no check ride. Like riding a bike .
 
Hi Skelrad.

skelrad said:
At what point do you feel like the number of hours you're flying is low enough that it affects your proficiency/safety? 1 hr a week, 1 hr a month...?
Click to expand...

It depends on many factors, Total time, how many different acfts. you fly, are you the type of person that thinks about flying when not flying, what is the memory retention capacity, muscle memory,etc., and most importantly how READY you want to be.
If you fly once every six months, you may think you are ready but chances are that when a Emergency comes up, you are very likely Not ready.

You can supplement some of your training with some, Sim time, PC Sims etc. You may not want to do that until after you get your PP, unless you talk to your Instructor first, to give you the Dos and Don'ts about negative transfer, and some of the [FONT=&quot]idiosyncrasies[/FONT] / short comings, that some of these sims have.
As you get more experience you can get a better idea of what you need, but you have to be realistic. TV
 
I think it has a lot to do with total experience. When I first got my pp I wanted to fly every week. Then year or so later felt like 10 days was when I felt rusty. And so on. I fly much more now and many different planes, so never really feel rusty very often. My thing now is I am used to high performance planes and when I fly like a 172 I feel I need to push!
 
Instructors are expensive.

I go up about an hour every three to four days. Otherwise, I start getting irritable.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
I go up about an hour every three to four days. Otherwise, I start getting irritable.
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Amen, brother. I aim for flying twice a week, or I start to kick the dog. :lol:

We've flown the RV almost 200 hours now, in a year. I don't think I've ever felt more comfortable and proficient in any plane, as we fly pretty much every other day.

Minimum proficiency, for me, would be once a week. That's what we flew for many years, back when money was tight, and although I didn't feel as proficient as I do now, I never bent any metal or scared myself.
 
In my experience as an instructor, pilots who fly less than 50-75 hours a year (depending on the sort of flying they do) have significantly degraded proficiency.
 
I'm flying about 100 per year now, and I feel reasonably proficient.
 
For the current airplane I am on, I try to schedule myself to fly once a week. I am relatively new in the airplane. It isn't really the flying I am worried about as it is the CRM of a 4 person crew, staying on a timeline, and mission planning. With a GA airplane once a month and I feel good. Flying the small stuff really slows things down and is much more relaxing. But I still try to fly once a month to keep acclimated to the differences

If I can't fly, I get in the books. Maybe read a section out of the POH, or(I know it sounds boring) a section of the FAA Aviation Weather book, Aviation Weather Services, or Instrument Procedures handbooks. Try to look for something you don't know/know little about. It will only improve your knowledge base.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
I go up about an hour every three to four days. Otherwise, I start getting irritable.
Click to expand...

As I've posted here a few times. NEVER replace your plane's wind up clock with a digital. My 182 has the original one of these:

$_1.JPG


It runs for eight days on a wind-up. If it's not running when I hop in the plane then it's been too damned long since I last flew! :goofy:
 
As others have mentioned, it is a factor of total time, individual characteristics, type of flying, and type of equipment. Staying proficient to do pattern work in a 172 is a lot different than staying proficient to fly a King Air in busy airspace to ILS minimums. And what works for me may not work for you.


timwinters said:
As I've posted here a few times. NEVER replace your plane's wind up clock with a digital. My 182 has the original one of these:



It runs for eight days on a wind-up. If it's not running when I hop in the plane then it's been too damned long since I last flew! :goofy:
Click to expand...

I like that rule!
 
Jimmy Doolittle, in his autobiography, says he stopped flying when he couldn't maintain at least 25 hours a month!
 
skelrad said:
At what point do you feel like the number of hours you're flying is low enough that it affects your proficiency/safety? 1 hr a week, 1 hr a month...?

The idea of keeping current (regardless what the regulations say), is very important to me for safety. I'm just getting started as a student pilot, but am curious how much people fly each year and at what point you start to feel rusty. My dad, for example, flies with an instructor buddy of his for a refresher if he's had to go more than a few months without any stick time. He says it's probably a little unnecessary, but at 70 years old his muscle memory isn't what it used to be and he thinks it's wise for him.

Just trying to figure out how much I need to budget for flying each year in order to get enough time to stay safe. That's my starting number.
Click to expand...


My guess is around 5 hrs a week is where you reach a point of rapidly diminishing returns towards adding proficiency if you fly 5 hrs every week, especially if split in 2 or 3 flights. How rapidly it falls off from there with less time would be a curve difficult to define. It would make an interesting Master's thesis or even Doctoral.

If you can fly 100hrs a year, you are in pretty good shape for being able to stay proficient enough to be on the top of the slope.
 
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What are we talking about though?

Stick and Rudder skill or increased chance of forgetting something, sloppy communication, etc? All of that?

Only thing I notice is if I miss a week or two, my confidence level is lower.
I can fly a couple times a week and I feel no different than if I was taking the boat out.

But let a couple weeks pass and I have a bit more hesitation as I take the runway.

It is so hot right now that I probably won't fly much at for a bit. I am more likely during this time when I know I will be doing less flying to go out late at night or early morning and just do some pattern work so I am flying to practice and also not let too much time lapse.
 
Hi everyone.
Here is an example how complicated / radical things can get.
747 pilot - CFII, ATP >8000 Hrs total, >3000 light GA, flying 40 hrs / week, wants to get checked out and rent a 172 for a few hours. First landing round out was at about 20 ft. high, took about 6 landings to get comfortable with the forward view, speed, etc. to get good landings. Add to that an Emergency, some unusual mechanical problem and you can see how easily things can get out of hand.
There are some good Stick pilots that can fly the bird, Alt. Hdgs., Turns, etc., even after many weeks off. But typically they have to concentrate to just inside the cockpit, ignore looking for traffic, proper engine instruments scanning, etc., and as soon as something unusual comes up things get unraveled.
[FONT=&quot]I know this is not what the OP posted about but you almost have to narrow things down to Category / Class / Type / Make / Model / frequency / hours in some cases. TV[/FONT]
 
Henning said:
My guess is around 5 hrs a week is where you reach a point of rapidly diminishing returns towards adding proficiency if you fly 5 hrs every week, especially if split in 2 or 3 flights. How rapidly it falls off from there with less time would be a curve difficult to define. It would make an interesting Master's thesis or even Doctoral.
Click to expand...

There have been many such studies attempting to measure frequency of flying vs skill retention. I didn't record them when I first ran across them, so I just now did a quick search in Google Scholar to see if I could re-find them. These look promising:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA133400

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD0771101

http://hfs.sagepub.com/content/13/5/397.short

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a036077.pdf

http://www.avhf.com/html/library/bfr_guide.pdf
 
Henning said:
My guess is around 5 hrs a week is where you reach a point of rapidly diminishing returns towards adding proficiency if you fly 5 hrs every week, especially if split in 2 or 3 flights. How rapidly it falls off from there with less time would be a curve difficult to define. It would make an interesting Master's thesis or even Doctoral.



If you can fly 100hrs a year, you are in pretty good shape for being able to stay proficient enough to be on the top of the slope.
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Henning,

How do you keep current when you are on extended work trips? How much time in the last 90 days did you have prior to your incident at Oshkosh? Do you think that was part of the chain of events that caused an issue?
 
dans2992 said:
Henning,

How do you keep current when you are on extended work trips? How much time in the last 90 days did you have prior to your incident at Oshkosh? Do you think that was part of the chain of events that caused an issue?
Click to expand...

5 in 90, and most definitely.
 
Jim Logajan said:
There have been many such studies attempting to measure frequency of flying vs skill retention. I didn't record them when I first ran across them, so I just now did a quick search in Google Scholar to see if I could re-find them. These look promising:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA133400

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD0771101

http://hfs.sagepub.com/content/13/5/397.short

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a036077.pdf

http://www.avhf.com/html/library/bfr_guide.pdf
Click to expand...

Very interesting. Thanks for the links!
 
I have found that doing a long cross country vacation gets me on my A game. Every couple of years we fly from the West Coast to the East Coast and back with a group of friends. By the time we get home I'm good, really good. (all relative here, obviously there are much better pilots out there) The plane never goes anywhere or does anything where my mind hasn't already been prior. The thought process of a truly current pilot seems to massage the available information at any given time and handle it with ease.

As time passes from flying less I find that I can actually feel it slipping away. You'll know it when you experience it. It is purely mental and its not necessarily that I'm behind the plane, but I'm not as far ahead. I think that to answer the OP's question this is the closest answer I can give to being correct based on my experience to date. I never got the sort of proficiency I'm speaking of locally or by flying often in my local area. It's all to familiar to get your mind up to speed. Anyway, that's my two cents on this. Others with even more experience than what I have been able to afford to build (and it has been a long slow trip to get what limited time I have) may have found another tier in the process that I have yet to reach. But from where I'm at I firmly believe that I can tell or feel when I'm not up to speed and need more time in the air. By time in the air I mean experiences and the more the better. This is why the home area is poor for getting you up to speed. You have seen it all at home and know what to expect and what is expected of you.
 
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dans2992 said:
That was probably all on your way to OSH, right?
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Not including, including would make 11. I'd rent a 172 every now and then and fly up to see mom. One of those was within 90.
 
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