Obtaining a Private Pilot Certificate without ever having held a medical under MOSAIC

[Jon Wilder]

Now that we have MOSAIC and Sport Pilot privileges have been expanded to Normal category aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate meeting certain performance metrics, I feel like obtaining a private pilot certificate without ever having held a medical certificate can now be done under sport pilot privileges.

The check ride is done during day VFR, which can be flown under Sport Pilot privileges (no medical necessary under SPL privileges).

The required night cross country flight is a training flight, conducted dual with CFI. No solo night requirement (no medical necessary).

All solo flight during PPL training is done day VFR (no medical necessary under SPL privileges).

What say the experts? Anything I'm missing?

NOTE: I already hold a PPL so this is more of a thinking exercise.

 

[Lindberg]

For what purpose?

 

[MauleSkinner]

The exception for checkrides is BasicMed:

§ 61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

(a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person—
….
(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—
….
(iii) When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in § 61.113(i); or

 

[Jon Wilder]

The exception for checkrides is BasicMed:

§ 61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

(a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person—
….
(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—
….
(iii) When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in § 61.113(i); or

That answers that question. They could, however, get all of their solo flight done under SPL prior to obtaining a medical or BasicMed. I have yet to see a regulation that states otherwise.

 

[MauleSkinner]

That answers that question. They could, however, get all of their solo flight done under SPL prior to obtaining a medical or BasicMed. I have yet to see a regulation that states otherwise.

It appears you had yet to see this regulation 5 minutes ago.

 

[MauleSkinner]

@Jon Wilder , check out this thread on the subject…and note that I hadn’t seen the reg 5 minutes before I saw it there.

Thread 'Earn private in LSA aircraft? No medical?'

Jan 7, 2022

Weird thought prompted by a question in the medical forum. Is it possible to become a light sport pilot, then do all your private training and a private checkride in a light sport aircraft under the sport certificate without having a medical? I'm looking through the private rules and I'm not seeing why not.

61.103 does not mention a medical for eligibility.
The flight proficiency and experience for 61.107 and 109 can be gained through endorsements where needed, but as a sport pilot, you can solo on your own in a LSA airplane
61.113 has a medical requirement in it, but that just means...

• bflynn
• Replies: 95
• Forum: Flight Following

 

[bbchien]

Of course you can. But there won't be any DPEs available as they will need 5 hours in type B4 they can give the checkride. So you would have to do it in an Evektor or in a 172 (something the DPEs are already doing rides in)....because 5 hours of additional training in two types is a pretty uneconomical addition in the budget for a 20 hour LSA cert...Of course you could do all 40-60 hours in the 172.

 

[Jon Wilder]

@Jon Wilder , check out this thread on the subject…and note that I hadn’t seen the reg 5 minutes before I saw it there.

Thread 'Earn private in LSA aircraft? No medical?'

Jan 7, 2022

Weird thought prompted by a question in the medical forum. Is it possible to become a light sport pilot, then do all your private training and a private checkride in a light sport aircraft under the sport certificate without having a medical? I'm looking through the private rules and I'm not seeing why not.

61.103 does not mention a medical for eligibility.
The flight proficiency and experience for 61.107 and 109 can be gained through endorsements where needed, but as a sport pilot, you can solo on your own in a LSA airplane
61.113 has a medical requirement in it, but that just means...

• bflynn
• Replies: 95
• Forum: Flight Following

I hadn't read 61.23(a) since I went BasicMed (2023). I am, however, very familiar with 61.23(c)(3).

Of course you could do all 40-60 hours in the 172.

Which is how most would do it I would think.

 

[TCABM]

I think the short answer is yes so long as you meet the knowledge & experience requirements in 14 CFR 61.103-109.

If the applicant does not meet those requirements, it’s irrelevant if the plane qualifies under MOSAIC.

I’m confused in your status though as you posted you “went BasicMed (2023)”.

 

[Jon Wilder]

I think the short answer is yes so long as you meet the knowledge & experience requirements in 14 CFR 61.103-109.

MauleSkinner clarified a part of 61.23(a) that requires you to hold a medical or be on BasicMed while taking a private pilot check ride.

If the applicant does not meet those requirements, it’s irrelevant if the plane qualifies under MOSAIC.

Prior to MOSAIC, acting as PIC of a Normal category aircraft was not possible under Sport Pilot privileges. Thus you had to hold a medical certificate or BasicMed to do your solo training in an other than Light Sport category aircraft.

Now that MOSAIC has expanded Sport Pilot privileges to cover Normal category aircraft meeting certain performance metrics, this is the game changer. You can now do all of your solo flying under Sport Pilot privileges in a Normal category aircraft meeting the performance metrics outlined in MOSAIC (Student Pilot Certificate with solo endorsement would essentially fall under Sport Pilot privileges).

I’m confused in your status though as you posted you “went BasicMed (2023)”.

I fly on BasicMed and have been since 2023. What's confusing about that?

 

[MauleSkinner]

Prior to MOSAIC, acting as PIC of a Normal category aircraft was not possible under Sport Pilot privileges.

Just to clarify, prior to MOSAIC, Sport Pilots could act as PIC of Normal category aircraft as long as they met certain requirements. The list was much smaller, though.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Just to clarify, prior to MOSAIC, Sport Pilots could act as PIC of Normal category aircraft as long as they met certain requirements. The list was much smaller, though.

In another forum, I was recently called out for bemoaning the fact that pilots tend to talk about what they believe the regs say rather than what the regs actually say.

 

[MauleSkinner]

In another forum, I was recently called out for bemoaning the fact that pilots tend to talk about what they believe the regs say rather than what the regs actually say.

I know the feeling.

 

[Half Fast]

They could, however, get all of their solo flight done under SPL prior to obtaining a medical or BasicMed. I have yet to see a regulation that states otherwise.

But to what end? If the student wants PP, he'll have to get the medical before the checkride anyway. And even if he could get the PP license without a medical (which he can't), he'd then be limited to flying with SP privileges, so why not just get a SP ticket?

 

[TCABM]

I fly on BasicMed and have been since 2023. What's confusing about that?

I missed the note at the bottom of your OP.

 

[MauleSkinner]

But to what end?

Digging through the regs to find/clarify something is always a good use of time…unless you’re in the midst of an engine failure on takeoff or something like that.

 

[Half Fast]

Digging through the regs to find/clarify something is always a good use of time…unless you’re in the midst of an engine failure on takeoff or something like that.

Maybe another fun thing to ask ATC?

"Approach, my medical expires in ten minutes so I'll be switching to Sport Pilot privileges. Request you cancel my IFR clearance and allow me to climb to a VFR altitude."

 

[Jon Wilder]

Maybe another fun thing to ask ATC?

"Approach, my medical expires in ten minutes so I'll be switching to Sport Pilot privileges. Request you cancel my IFR clearance and allow me to climb to a VFR altitude."

Sometimes thinking exercises using unrealistic or unpractical scenarios are solely for gaining a deeper understanding of a concept.

 

[Half Fast]

Sometimes thinking exercises using unrealistic or unpractical scenarios are solely for gaining a deeper understanding of a concept.

I'll have to think about that one for a while....

 

[decalogue]

Of course you can. But there won't be any DPEs available as they will need 5 hours in type B4 they can give the checkride. So you would have to do it in an Evektor or in a 172 (something the DPEs are already doing rides in)....because 5 hours of additional training in two types is a pretty uneconomical addition in the budget for a 20 hour LSA cert...Of course you could do all 40-60 hours in the 172.

I’m confused


All the DPEs I come across have at least 5hrs in all the common types of planes most are looking to MOASIC in.

172, PA28, 150s, and so on are the most popular choices, with a few cubs or maybe a Grumman tossed in.

I don’t know how one could become a DPE and not have managed at least 5hrs in the meat and tatters of the GA fleet.

 

[bbchien]

Sorry I didn't mean to confuse you with that. Most of the guys who are looking to his locally are wanting to do the rides in their eLSAs or sLSAs and one guy in a VL3 (hey no kidding!). There are very few local DPEs whos are willing. We are looking at the very bottom of the edge end and their view is, "what? I have to rent an aircraft? Train in a different aircraaft so I can take the ride? That can't be right"!