Nuclear fusion anyone?

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JOhnH

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Neat, see what happens when you quit spending money on weapons?

In recent years, Lockheed has gotten increasingly involved in a variety of alternate energy projects, including several ocean energy projects, as it looks to offset a decline in U.S. and European military spending.
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********!

The plan is to reach a high-beta ratio. Plans call for a compact 100 MW machine. The company hopes to have a prototype working by 2017, scale it up to a full production model by 2022 and to be able to meet global baseload energy demand by 2050. Here are some other characteristics of this machine:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_beta_fusion_reactor
 
Everything you believe is impossible is no such thing. When you do the right thing for the right reason, anything is possible. I keep trying to tell you all that we can achieve any technical goal that we want. The main thing we need the energy for is fresh water.
 
Someone with better information, please feel free to correct me, but I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations...

From the TVA Watts Bar Website, they say that Watts Bar Unit 1 generates 1,100 MW, and can power 650,000 homes.

OK, so that gives me a figure of merit of 600 homes per megawatt. That means that a fusion generator on the back of a truck could handle 60,000 homes!
 
I wonder what the left will think up to destroy the use of this technology for inexpensive, and plentiful energy?
 
Anthony said:
I wonder what the left will think up to destroy the use of this technology for inexpensive, and plentiful energy?
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You mean the Right right? What it will do is hopefully eliminate both the left and right.
 
Radiation. Our kids will have seven heads and 3 lungs.
 
EdFred said:
Radiation. Our kids will have seven heads and 3 lungs.
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You have to actually "sleep" with a woman to have children, so that rules you out, so don't worry about it.


:D

:rofl:
 
EdFred said:
Radiation. Our kids will have seven heads and 3 lungs.
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From the story:
It said future reactors could use a different fuel and eliminate radioactive waste completely.
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Byproduct of deuterium/tritium fusion is stable, non-radioactive He4, so as a bonus, birthday balloons will be cheaper.
 
Cool, if true. Fusion has been one of those '10 years away' technologies for a long, long time. I'm sure there will be issues as with any technology; among those will be educating people on the differences between fusion and fission.
 
Timmer said:
Cool, if true. Fusion has been one of those '10 years away' technologies for a long, long time. I'm sure there will be issues as with any technology; among those will be educating people on the differences between fusion and fission.
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It's been "10 years away" for government researchers and university drones. Now, LockMart says they'll have a prototype in 3.

They're actually regulated in the types of claims they make (Sarbanes-Oxley, SEC regulations) because of investor confidence issues. Government 'crats and university drones are not.
 
Henning said:
Neat, see what happens when you quit spending money on weapons?
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I don't doubt for a minute that this won't be turned into, or used as a weapon in some capacity.
 
JOhnH said:
I don't doubt for a minute that this won't be turned into, or used as a weapon in some capacity.
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I'll bet good money that the first customer will be the boys with the Gray ships and blue uniforms.
 
JeffDG said:
From the story:


Byproduct of deuterium/tritium fusion is stable, non-radioactive He4, so as a bonus, birthday balloons will be cheaper.
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When have facts ever stopped either side from fear mongering?
 
JOhnH said:
I don't doubt for a minute that this won't be turned into, or used as a weapon in some capacity.
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It will, the question is will it be used as a weapon of peace, or a weapon of war. We have the chance to get it right, will we?:dunno:
 
JeffDG said:
Um...you sure you know how that works...sleep is by no means mandatory.
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This is a family friendly forum. Did you see the quotes around the word sleep. And yes, it is a common euphamism for sex. OK?

Damn Canadians. :)
 
It's still 10 years away technology. The theory is usually very good, the applied physics is usually very troublesome. Without more actual physics to work with, it's hard to comment on this particular reactor method.

BTW, the reactor itself might fit in the back of a truck but this doesn't include any of the power generation externals, which are significant. Also, a 100MW reactor does not equal 100MW of usable power.

I don't like tossing water on the various programs, but I've been down this road a few times before. The only thing I'm happy about is that it appears this one is mostly privately funded unlike the fed version which has been mired in controversy for decades.
 
Henning said:
It will, the question is will it be used as a weapon of peace, or a weapon of war. We have the chance to get it right, will we?:dunno:
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If we use it to subdue our enemies, then it will be a weapon of Peace.
If our enemies get their hands on it, then it will be a weapon of war.
 
EdFred is correct. The word Nuclear is a dirty and "deadly" word after the extreme enviromentlist PR campaign in the 70s.

I would love to see this come to mainstream use. However, either the oil industry or the enviromentlist will take care of seeing that it doesn't happen.
 
ARFlyer said:
EdFred is correct. The word Nuclear is a dirty and "deadly" word after the extreme enviromentlist PR campaign in the 70s.

I would love to see this come to mainstream use. However, either the oil industry or the enviromentlist will take care of seeing that it doesn't happen.
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Yep, there is the chance that human greed and stupidity will once again block us from the future we could achieve.
 
docmirror said:
LMT trading > $4 lower daily so the market doesn't really see a big upside. Unless the news isn't out far enough yet.

A more technical brief: http://aviationweek.com/technology/skunk-works-reveals-compact-fusion-reactor-details

Still a lot of applied physics to go.
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Perhaps it has something to do with the whole market being down over 2.5%
But as you say, a lot of physics yet to be developed, and a fear that the oil companies and established power companies may try to do something t sabotage it. But if this technology is for real, it won't be as easy to suppress as it may have been in an earlier time.
 
If I was in charge, I would keep this tech for us, and tell the rest of the world we are no longer going to get involved in anything. All military bases overseas closed, everyone comes home, no more being world police or babysitting. With energy costs then bottoming out, the costs of everything will drop, and the dollar gets stronger.
 
EdFred said:
If I was in charge, I would keep this tech for us, and tell the rest of the world we are no longer going to get involved in anything. All military bases overseas closed, everyone comes home, no more being world police or babysitting. With energy costs then bottoming out, the costs of everything will drop, and the dollar gets stronger.
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I'm good with that. But under your plan, do we still conduct trade with other nations? FAIR trade?
 
Another facility reached break-even fusion this year, which has been the holy grail of fusion research for decades. If Lockmart can actually do this they will become the most profitable company on earth very quickly. I truly hope they aren't too far off on their estimates.
 
steingar said:
Another facility reached break-even fusion this year, which has been the holy grail of fusion research for decades. If Lockmart can actually do this they will become the most profitable company on earth very quickly. I truly hope they aren't too far off on their estimates.
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Most profitable company in the history of earth by an order of magnitude or two.

Nearly unlimited clean energy + innovative process (pattentable) + first to market = a damn good place to be.
 
JeffDG said:
Most profitable company in the history of earth by an order of magnitude or two.

Nearly unlimited clean energy + innovative process (pattentable) + first to market = a damn good place to be.
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Jeff,
Something tells me you have high hopes for this technology!
 
If there is anyone I have faith in to get this done, it's Skunk Works. So much so that I just made my first stock purchase.
 
Henning said:
If there is anyone I have faith in to get this done, it's Skunk Works. So much so that I just made my first stock purchase.
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They tend to get from "That's impossible!" to "Is Friday OK for delivery" more frequently than the average R&D shop.
 
JeffDG said:
They tend to get from "That's impossible!" to "Is Friday OK for delivery" more frequently than the average R&D shop.
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Yep, I like guys who don't believe in 'impossible'. I hear it all the time, then I get the job done, that's why I get the jobs I get.
 
EdFred said:
If I was in charge, I would keep this tech for us, and tell the rest of the world we are no longer going to get involved in anything. All military bases overseas closed, everyone comes home, no more being world police or babysitting. With energy costs then bottoming out, the costs of everything will drop, and the dollar gets stronger.
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Lack of energy drives all conflict. Keeping this technology to ourselves ensures a continued human history of violence and butchery.
 
Timmer said:
Cool, if true. Fusion has been one of those '10 years away' technologies for a long, long time. I'm sure there will be issues as with any technology; among those will be educating people on the differences between fusion and fission.
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Yes, it's been '10 years away' for about 40 years. The physics are solid but the technologies to harness the physics in some productive way have been elusive.
JeffDG said:
It's been "10 years away" for government researchers and university drones. Now, LockMart says they'll have a prototype in 3.

They're actually regulated in the types of claims they make (Sarbanes-Oxley, SEC regulations) because of investor confidence issues. Government 'crats and university drones are not.
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It's been a best and brightest effort for a long time. I toured the Plasma Physics Lab in Princeton sometime in the late 70s. Success was projected some 20 years out so it was as much a research effort as a development effort.

The fact that this is coming from Lockheed is exciting. I'll bet they are standing on the shoulders of many others as they reach for the power of the stars.
JeffDG said:
Most profitable company in the history of earth by an order of magnitude or two.

Nearly unlimited clean energy + innovative process (pattentable) + first to market = a damn good place to be.
Click to expand...
Henning said:
If there is anyone I have faith in to get this done, it's Skunk Works. So much so that I just made my first stock purchase.
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Hope you are right. Beware irrational exuberance...

The 'reactor' in the so far unsuccessful attempts have all been small. But they all (both?) require enormous amounts of energy to work. So the infrastructure required to run the 'reactor' can be pretty significant.

Even if the technology ends up being the size of 10 coal plants, it will still be a game changer if it's productive enough.
 
EdFred said:
If I was in charge, I would keep this tech for us, and tell the rest of the world we are no longer going to get involved in anything. All military bases overseas closed, everyone comes home, no more being world police or babysitting. With energy costs then bottoming out, the costs of everything will drop, and the dollar gets stronger.
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Yep, no faster way to bring more war to our shores than to be selfish with what could bring peace and prosperity to the world. I do agree that this technology should be kept on our shores. Nobody else needs the technology itself if we can export the benefits. I know Fast Eddie will object, but again, this is where Hydrogen comes in. We need to be ready with the infrastructure to absorb the energy that can be produced. We can increase the efficiency of our current power grid greatly in the meantime and get the ball rolling. This is our last opportunity, we can have some faith and take it, or we can just **** it away. It'll be interesting to see which we choose.

We cannot choose to withdraw from the world, we are part of it. If we play it right, we may be able to leave the world though.
 
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