NTSB report on Sully's use of AoA

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Maui Cirrus CFII, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    No, the reason the AoA isn't on every GA airplane is the FAA. Until last year, it was a nightmare (depending which FAA region you lived in) to go thru the nightmare of a 337. I had one shop be very candid - it wasn't going to waste its 'political capital' and relationship with the local office on an AoA.

    I think it was Remos and another LSA that have AoA as standard equipment (don't remember where I saw it) but given the choice of flying various LSA, the AoA is not the deal breaker when renting or buying.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  2. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Exactly. If the OP really believes in what he is pushing, take your fight to DC not here.
     
  3. mscard88

    mscard88 Final Approach

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    WHAT!? You calling me a liar!? Why you son of a.... ;)
     
  4. MetalCloud

    MetalCloud Pre-takeoff checklist

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    He believes it and pushes it BECAUSE HE SELLS IT! I can't trust anything from him because of that, and I'll ignore everything he says. It's what annoys me about him. He could have taken a different approach but no.

    And you are exactly right.
     
  5. deonb

    deonb Line Up and Wait

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    If that's all you want to do, then why not link to AoA indicators that you're NOT selling?
     
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  6. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    INDEED!

    Like that alpha HUD one I linked to, way safer as it always in your view without blocking it, and can also be closed if needed.
     
  7. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer Pattern Altitude

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    I used AOA for landing in the 145 mainly because our W&B software often buried the Vref. 5 kts above the white AOA tape on final and at white tape over the fence will give you a nice touchdown.
     
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  8. Maui Cirrus CFII

    Maui Cirrus CFII Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I do. I have other videos on the site. Not just Bendix. And I am about to sign a deal with alpha too.
     
  9. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Line Up and Wait

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    Training should be more focused on feeling what the plane is doing, so you can spend more time looking outside, not at a gauge. That's also why I'm a fan of glass panels...sure, they take a bit of time to learn initially, but once they're set up, the scan of information is significantly faster and easier.

    I'm not averse to the AoA; it's just not the panacea that some make it out to be.
     
  10. Maui Cirrus CFII

    Maui Cirrus CFII Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Agreed. However, what is really nice to know is exactly how does the aircraft feel at Max L/D and also at Max Cl. You can't precisely know with an airspeed indicator. Its another tool, that's all.
     
  11. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Look dude, this is where I REALLY take issue, "one less dead pilot in 8 days"...

    Don't stand on the graves of folks to peddle your product, most of the stalls would have occurred even with a AOA because the guy was too far behind the plane, or not airspeed aware, etc, but they are going to look at the AOA, yeah...

    And please link to a NTSB where the cause of a crash was listed as "not having a AOA"

    Again, I fly a AOA at work, but some of your one less dead pilot stuff really pizzes me off.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  12. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Don't be posting amphibs trying to get on my good side now ;)


    You want to be Mr AOA, cool, but don't even try to stand on the coffins of dead airman to sell your crap.
     
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  13. Maui Cirrus CFII

    Maui Cirrus CFII Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The thing is I am in the fortunate position of flying with about 200-300 pilots a year. I see the skill set first hand. And I'm not impressed with a large majority. So I am trying to do something about it.

    Of those 2-3 know and understand AoA. They are usually military guys. The rest have never used it. And when they do then they see the value of it.

    As for dancing on the graves of fellow aviators how dare imply that. I don't see or anyone else trying to help the situation. Instructors are not doing enough. If they were. We'd have zero pilots killed by loss of Control.

    Help me. Let's make a difference.
     
  14. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

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    And I could do that same turn the Icon does at max Cl without the need of an AoA indicator. Just doing steep turns in the Glasair today at 65 kts and riding the buffet. All without any stall warning device. That's just crazy man. :eek:
     
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  15. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So only 2-3 out of 2-300 have flown AOA? Really? So only 1%?? Yeah I'm tossing the BS flag on you there.

    Most all biz jets and 121 ships have AOA and I'm pretty sure more than 1% of rentals in HI are Corp or airline guys looking to buzz around in a little GA machine.

    And yes, you are dancing on graves, you are trying to sell a product and saying these tons of folks would still be with their families today if they bought your crappy little AOA system.

    Lots of folks with far more experience than you on the forum are always offering suggestions, sometimes to a fault, to help their fellow aviators, and unlike you, they don't make a commission off of their help.

    And to say CFIs arnt doing their jobs if so much as one person dies, that's just showing your lack of experience in aviation, actually more like your lack of experience in the human condition.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  16. mscard88

    mscard88 Final Approach

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    To be fair to Maui Wowie, I flew turbo props and CRJs and we did not have AOAs. Over 25K hours and I've never even seen a AOA let alone used one. But, I've never unintentionally ever stalled either. So I got that going for me. Now my landings, well, I was able to walk away ok? ;):)
     
  17. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Line Up and Wait

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    It's going to take more than AoA to save the Icon A5... :D