Notams Back to basics -FAA

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by PaulS, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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  2. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Line Up and Wait

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    I download it this morning.... and will enjoy tomorrow morning over coffee.... thanks for the review.
     
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  3. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    It is a good explanation/review. . .of an asinine, archaic, safety compromising, obscure, and poorly implemented system, one that should be an embarrasment to FAA management (is that a contradiction in terms?). . .
     
  4. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

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  5. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    Some of the points raised are valid. But please count me in the "don't go to plain language NOTAMs" camp. All you're going to do is double the amount of paper I have to read.

    And get off my lawn.
     
  6. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Pattern Altitude

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    Archaic or not it's what we have. This morning I checked my departure, destination and an interim airports' notams then read this on page 9: "Check 25 nautical miles (NM) to either side of your full route of flight to ensure relevant NAVAID NOTAMs are displayed. Do not rely only on reviewing Departure, Destination, and Alternate Airport NOTAMs" [emphasis added]. Good review.
     
  7. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    The notam system still needs a lot of work, but there are a few justifications as to why the system is the way it is, plus lots of info to help decode the madness and make it more useful. The link is worth the read for every pilot and should be incorporated as a chapter in the FAA Pilots handbook.
     
  8. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

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    I am not trying to ruffle feathers, but I am curious what the justifications are? Are they technological integration issues? I don't know how the system works, so in my mind, it is an easy fix. These tech issues could surely be made state of 2019's art with some input from @RJM62 I bet. I'd love to get his perspective on this. :) I feel sad for the aviation community since we need to get more info to decode the info.

    At 2 of my old airlines, IIRC, the dispatchers had a guy dedicated to the NOTAMs desk. At the first, it was a very junior position, and a much loathed shift. The phone was taped to his hand, and decoder rings were jammed on his fingers. He looked miserable. I was impressed with the lack of a tech solution back then in 2000 when I got the tour.

    We can make a grassroots lobby effort to change the NOTAMs systems, ya hear me EAA AOPA? We are the end users. But here's the pushback from the airline lobbies, "We can't make a change to our current system, the world's economy will shut down!" So there's that. Anyway, [/rant].
     
  9. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Eric, go through the presentation. I think most of the issues (hence justifications) result from outdated tech and concepts being used, plus, until this presentation, it wasn't real easy to find an all in one presentation on how to use the system, other than you better know the notams that are relevant to you. There is also a lot of bandwidth used up by essentially burned out bulbs, that needs to be addressed from both a notam perspective and a system user (pilots) perspective. These tower owners need to be fined if the lights are out for more than a week or two IMHO.

    So I'm not disagreeing with you, the system sorely needs to be fixed, but this presentation helped me understand how to better navigate what we have now, and I've been trying to get there for a while, that's a plus to me.
     
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  10. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

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    Yup, we're not disagreeing, just conversing. I did some more looking and found this: https://ops.group/blog/notams/
    Which leads to this: https://fsb1.typeform.com/to/irZiFM

    I'm not sure why I I haven't seen these sites/links ever. I'm flying my Sierra farther and frequenter now and I'm actually reading the NOTAMs closer. Also, flying in AK professionally, Dispatch, the CA and me have had NOTAM briefs. They take the most amount time and usually provide the least amount of information. Sad!
     
  11. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    Concur - I haven't done any research, but would bet a nickel it (the NOTAM system) has killed a few folks. Perhaps, to be more fair, its probably contributed materially to fatals.

    I wasn't tongue in cheek on the presentation - it is well done, if a few decades late. It is a sorry state of affairs that it is necessary, and an incandescent example of FAA incompetence. Or indifference. Or inability to do thoughtful prioritization. Maybe all of the above. . .
     
  12. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I've never understood the point of NOTAMing tower light outages. What is a pilot supposed to do with that knowledge? Do you go and plot each one on a map? The majority are less than 500 feet tall and shouldn't be a dangerous to 99% of pilots. That would reduce the clutter a lot.
     
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  13. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    When it takes 48 slides just to explain how NOTAMs work, the system is in serious need of an overhaul.
     
  14. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It may have to do with liability.
     
  15. cowman

    cowman En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Fortunately ForeFlight does a pretty good job or sorting and highlighting the important ones.


    Then there's stuff like this
    I don't know what this means. This thing has shown up in every briefing I've had for at least a year now, maybe more. I don't know what it means, I've asked a couple of instructors around the airport and they don't really know either. The general assumption has been some kind of military training/testing but it's been recurring seemingly forever. What high speed aircraft? Where? How am I supposed to use this information? At this point it's just a thing I'm scrolling past.
     
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  16. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    The NOTAM you posted is referencing a center NOTAM. Kansas City (ZKC) NOTAM 01/035. If you put ZKC in the NOTAM search box, it'll pull up the center NOTAMs.

    It took me all of 2 minutes to pull up the ZKC NOTAM. The fact that multiple instructors couldn't help you and answer your question has me scratching my head.

    I agree that it takes up a pretty big swath of land, and is pretty much an "okay... got it" kind of information.
    NOTAM.jpg

    I think it's more of a lawyer thing than an FAA thing. If you get hit by an F-15 doing a low level, they can say "well, we warned them."
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  17. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

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    I think this is in the running for statement of the year!
     
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  18. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Why don't they just go to the refined Homeland Security Advisory System color coded NOTAM overlay. Sure FF could figure it out. Red overlay means you will get killt or definitely violated, orange will probably set you up for a ramp check and full-body cavity search by a super fat-fingered FAA inspector. Nobody will pay attention to yellow but that would probably be for GA airports situated between the DIA Bravo airspace and the front range, truly the wild west. Thoughts?


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  19. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Pointer notam, the keyword is SEE. The big question is why can't the system draw a picture like you did, simple, quick, and worth 1000 words.
     
  20. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    It one of web links it states the standard abbreviations are there so notams can be processed automatically.
    Great, but why not just publish them in binary?!
    I see no reason they can’t provide current versions for EFBs to process, but a user portal to allow user friendly versions.
    I have same issue with weather forecasts.


    Tom
     
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  21. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

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    There has been movement towards graphical NOTAMs, but as with a lot of things FAA it has been slow. It should roll out in the next 50 years, give or take a decade.
     
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  22. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My 2 cents. The issue isn't how they are written as much as the density of irrelevant ones. Particularly obstruction/unlighted towers. There are so many, yet 99% have no bearing on a safe flight. My home drone usually has 30 or 40 listed, and I'm hard pressed to think of any that remotely would be an issue. Here's a perfect example -

    RYY 02/010 RYY OBST TOWER LGT (ASN 2002-ASO-4639-OE) 335512N0843231W (6.2NM SSE RYY) 1134FT (39FT AGL) OUT OF SERVICE 1902051346-1902201346.

    The unlighted tower is 39 feet AGL and 6.2 NM from the airport. Are you freaking kidding me??? If for some reason, I'm at 39ft AGL that far from the airport, that NOTAM isn't going to be what saves me.
     
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