Not my proudest moment

[Vinny]

I went and did some night circuits in our club Warrior last month to get current for passengers. Checked all the lights, everything was fine except I noted the panel lighting on the #2 CDI and ADF (on the radio lights circuit) was really bright.

Fast forward to last weekend, I have the family loaded and ready to go for a weekend trip to Missouri. The #2 radio was out for repair and the ADF is inop so I just cranked the dimmer for those instruments all the way to the off position during preflight. But when I walked around the position lights were off. I couldn't find any rocker switches on the panel for them; the anti-collision light was on, the wingtip strobes were on, but no position lights.

Well, I figured I have the strobes so I'm visible (if not legal) and we made our flight in, thinking I'll need to file a squawk for the nav lights when I get back.

Fortunately, before the return trip I looked a little closer at the switches and saw that the "radio lights" dimmer also says "nav lights". So I clicked the dimmer on and voila! Position lights.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, the POH doesn't really say much about how the position lights are operated, so it's really a matter of knowing your aircraft well or talking to others who know it well. Obviously, I'm still relatively new to Pipers.

 

[James331]

Technically you do need the position lights for night flight. Sounds like piper switches

 

[flyingron]

Yep, that's pretty common in Cherokees. The usual gotcha is soemone complaining that they can't see any of the displays in the radio in bright sunshine. "Try turning off the position lights" is the usual answer.

 

[timwinters]

Why would any mfgr put the position lights on a dimmer? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Henning]

The other good one in a Piper Arrow is that in the daytime you can dim the three greens with the dimmer and it looks like they aren't on.

 

[GCA319]

Yeah...I remember that stupid switch from a PA28 I flew awhile back. Live and learn.

 

[jordane93]

I think I remember reading in the POH (either Cherokee or Arrow), if you turn your position lights up really bright, it takes away from the landing light and makes it dimmer.

 

[tmyers]

The position lights don't dim. The switch is two function. On.Off for the position lights and dimmer for some, not all of the panel lights. Mine is set up so that the position light dimmer only controls the position lights. the dimmer is connected to nothing. The second dimmer wheel is connected to the panel lights.

Henning is correct about the gear lights too. Forget to turn the position lights off and you get gear lights that you will not see in daylight. It is a shocker the first time you lower the gear at dusk when the position lights are on but it isn't that dark yet.

 

[d.grimm]

Piper isn't the only guilty party, Learjet
Does the exact same thing.
Dave

 

[eaglepilot]

The other good one in a Piper Arrow is that in the daytime you can dim the three greens with the dimmer and it looks like they aren't on.

Yeah, I've been caught with that one. Tower flyby said all was good, landed,THEN found the dimmer.

 

[Henning]

Yeah, I've been caught with that one. Tower flyby said all was good, landed,THEN found the dimmer.

Normally when you get checked out in an Arrow, a good CFI will hit you with it so you remember. It makes perfect sense to dim the three green when the position lights come on otherwise they destroy night vision.

 

[CJZAV]

I understand this is actually the reason for the hole that's drilled in the rolling switches that they use for dimmers. To indicate if they are rolled to the off position or not.

This came up in my first flight in an arrow. The instructor didn't do it on purpose but on the return to base after lowering the gear we weren't getting three greens. None actually. Turns out they were all dimmed from the demonstration of what all the panel switches do. Took a moment to figure out that we hadn't rolled the dimmer past the click to off (and exposed the indicator mark/hole).

 

[ScottK]

Normally when you get checked out in an Arrow, a good CFI will hit you with it so you remember. It makes perfect sense to dim the three green when the position lights come on otherwise they destroy night vision.

My instructor did that to another cfi that was getting checked out in the Arrow. He picked it up, but it took him a bit.

 

[Code90]

We fly a PA-32R (Lance) and I knew about the green lights being connected to the dimmer thanks to a good CFI. I was not previously aware of the position lights being affected by the dimmers until one of my partners mentioned a squawk that the position lights and landing lights were out. I spent quite a while with the plane and the POH to finally find the one paragraph that mentioned the position lights. After adjusting the dimmer, position lights worked. I spent another hour trying to find out the trick to get the landing light to come on. Did I find the trick? No, was actually broken (wire issue going from switch to bulb). I'm obviously not qualified to judge, but I would have designed this system a bit differently.

 

[MAKG1]

There is a 182 I rent occasionally that has its beacon light wired to the avionics bus. No strobes. It's constantly squawked down for an inop beacon.

 

[dmspilot]

There is a 182 I rent occasionally that has its beacon light wired to the avionics bus. No strobes. It's constantly squawked down for an inop beacon.

It should be squawked for being wired in a way that forces one to choose from two bad options: violate 91.209(b) or risk frying the avionics.

 

[mkosmo]

It should be squawked for being wired in a way that forces one to choose from two bad options: violate 91.209(b) or risk frying the avionics.

However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.

Sounds like saving the avionics is arguably in the interest of safety... at least as a stopgap until the power routing is resolved.

 

[MAKG1]

All it means is you have to turn the avionics on before moving. Which you do anyway, right? It's on the engine start checklist. There is no 14 CFR 91.209(b) violation unless it really is inop.

It means you have to turn the avionics on during preflight to know the beacon works. Just a stupid trap.

 

[dmspilot]

All it means is you have to turn the avionics on before moving...There is no 14 CFR 91.209(b) violation

Starting the engine = operating.

 

[MAKG1]

Starting the engine = operating.

In the same sense that opening the door is. How many pilots do you know turn the beacon on before touching the airplane?

From 14 CFR 1.1:

Operate, with respect to aircraft, means use, cause to use or authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose (except as provided in §91.13 of this chapter) of air navigation including the piloting of aircraft, with or without the right of legal control (as owner, lessee, or otherwise).

That means giving someone the keys is operating the aircraft. Do you turn the beacon on before doing that? Do you really believe that's the intent of 14 CFR 91.209?

A nonmoving aircraft represents the exact same collision hazard as an abandoned aircraft. A moving aircraft is an entirely different story.

Note that it also means taxiing to the fuel pump or the wash rack is not operation. That's a little strange. I'd like every reasonable light to be turned on when taxiing around, regardless of whether it's for air navigation or anything else.

 

[dmspilot]

In the same sense that opening the door is. How many pilots do you know turn the beacon on before touching the airplane?

From 14 CFR 1.1:

That means giving someone the keys is operating the aircraft. Do you turn the beacon on before doing that? Do you really believe that's the intent of 14 CFR 91.209?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and I don't agree with your interpretation. Do you really believe that having the anticollision light tied to the avionics bus is a good idea?

"The anticollision light should be turned on prior to engine start, even during daytime operations" (Airplane Flying Handbook).

 

[MAKG1]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and I don't agree with your interpretation. Do you really believe that having the anticollision light tied to the avionics bus is a good idea?

"The anticollision light should be turned on prior to engine start, even during daytime operations" (Airplane Flying Handbook).

No, I don't. It serves no useful purpose and generates bogus squawks.

It is, however, not my plane.

 

[Henning]

In the same sense that opening the door is. How many pilots do you know turn the beacon on before touching the airplane?

From 14 CFR 1.1:



That means giving someone the keys is operating the aircraft. Do you turn the beacon on before doing that? Do you really believe that's the intent of 14 CFR 91.209?

A nonmoving aircraft represents the exact same collision hazard as an abandoned aircraft. A moving aircraft is an entirely different story.

Note that it also means taxiing to the fuel pump or the wash rack is not operation. That's a little strange. I'd like every reasonable light to be turned on when taxiing around, regardless of whether it's for air navigation or anything else.

Beacon should be on before props start spinning and turbines start spooling. It is the final warning to those on the ground that things are about to become dangerous. A lot of people don't like hitting the starter with the avionics on, there's an expensive reason for that. The beacon being on the avionics master is a mistake that should be rectified.

As a rental I'd tell the owner to fix it. After that I start it with with the avionics cranking. If they let out the magic smoke, oh well.

 

[tmyers]

I just leave the beacon switch on the on position. Good indicator to let me know I have left the battery master I. When I am walking away from the aircraft.

 

[Fraser]

I just leave the beacon switch on the on position. Good indicator to let me know I have left the battery master I. When I am walking away from the aircraft.

Same here. Any good reason to not do this?

 

[tmyers]

If your battery is on it's last legs it could interfere with start up, but if that is the case you need a new battery. When my battery was nearing the end of it's life I noticed the boost pump drew the battery down enough that the starter didn't always engage, but I am sure the boost pump draws a lot more power than the beacon.