North route to cross the Rockies

Discussion in 'Cool Places to Fly' started by Jenny Law, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Got to remember many summer days it will be snowing in the high country.
    IFR in a 150 over the Cascades is not smart.
     
  2. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    Suggesting to someone who, by definition is unfamiliar with the area, to cross the rockies at 3500' following a road is what's not smart.

    Please go research the difference between IFR and IMC.
     
  3. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    I also said, the cascades can be crossed safely thru the passes. US 2 is only 2900' I-90 3100'

    If you want to go high go.. But do it VFR and low winds. I've seen days the winds will not allow a crossing at all. our predominate winds are 320 degrees, at 10-11,000 they will be up to 100kt.

    I've probably got 100 crossings our more in a 150/170/172/182, Believe me I'd never go high and long in IFR weather, in any thing that is non de-iced.
    in the 150/150 discussed here, I'd cross thru Stevens Pass, Wenatchee direct PAE, good radar flight following most all the way, and one hell of a lot safer.
     
  4. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Granted, who was talking "rockies"
    The area around the Rockies starts at 7k', Rock Springs for example is over 7k' it's that way all the way south to Flagstaff.
    Wenatchee is only 1200' top of the pass at Stevens is 2900' lots different than the rockies. But the big difference is weather. Stevens pass is only 40 miles from the coast, it is the first rise in terrane where the heavy rain will be dumped.
     
  5. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    If winds at 10k feet over the mountains are 100kts, you're gonna have one heck of a ride going through the passes at 3500'.

    If it's good enough weather for an unfamiliar pilot to fly through the mountains at 3500', it's going to be infinitely safer to do so on IFR routes at or near MEA and/or OROCA's. To suggest a pilot unfamiliar with the area and terrain to go navigate through passes and that they could do so safely at 3500' is just beyond me. It is very difficult to identify mountain passes you are unfamiliar with.

    I never suggested she punch through clouds. You confused IFR with IMC. I never said that. So all things being equal, no matter what you're safer crossing the mountains at 11k feet. No reason to go high? Give me a break.
     
  6. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    I know about being on a flight plan and not.
    I also have found from experience that being on a IFR flight plan to cross the Cascades in a 150 is a practical impossibility, on all but a very few days.
    Today is a normal weather day. 40 degrees at sea level way below freezing at 1500' clouds are below the passes.
     
  7. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    No more argument.. see ya. I've made my point. BTDT a lot of times. learned my lessons the hard way.
     
  8. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    Yeah... so not a good day to do it. Pick another day, or buy a turbo FIKI. Don't go through mountain passes you're unfamiliar with in a 150...
     
  9. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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  10. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    What in the world does today's weather forecast have to do with what route and altitude she should fly? And how does showing me a weather report with 1.25mi visibility at 4000' make your case for going through the mountains at 3500'?
     
  11. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Do you understand that Mt.Baker is 10,400' and leaves a wake in the Coriolis winds?
    at the mea of V-2 or 120 you are going to cope with that? Glacier peak also.
    Some days here Coriolis winds start as low as 8k
     
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    It makes my point of pick a nice day, don't try to go IFR.
    Try some day in June.
     
  13. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC En-Route PoA Supporter

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    What are Coriolis winds?
     
  14. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Well known fact,, V2 & V120 are the known as the ice machine. from early Oct, thru end of May, you have a very good chance of encountering ice on those 2 routes. 13000 feet isn't where I want to be in a 150.

    Got O2?
     
  15. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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  16. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    Again, please go study what IFR means, and the difference between IFR and IMC.

    **Here's a hint... IFR has absolutely NOTHING to do with weather.
     
  17. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Lots of folks do not realize the flying the Cascades is not your typical mountain flying.
    They rise from sea level to 10,000'. they create their own weather systems.
     
  18. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    You don't seem to realize that technically, means nothing. No matter if you are in the clouds or not you will be at 13,000' for radar coverage on either Victor airway. That ain't where you want to be any day over the cascades.
    At 4000' Stevens pass is over a mile wide, and less than 5 miles from the time you are in it until you are out of it.
     
  19. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    When you file a IFR flight plan, you will comply with IFR rules which means you will be at or above MEA, V-2 that's 13,000' V-120 that's 8,000'

    90% of the time that's in or above the clouds here. 7 months of the year, that icing territory.

    DON'T DO IT.

    My Rule.. If I can't see across, I don't go across.
     
  20. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    On what day can you see across the Rockies at 3500'?
     
  21. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    You keep talking about the rockies.. So I assume you don't know the difference.
    When you stop to think. Rock Springs is 7000' You don't make much sense
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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  22. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Some days you can see across some days you can't, If you can't, don't go.
     

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  23. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    I read the title of the thread again a few times to be sure, and it does mention the Rockies. It's the sixth and final word of the thread title, and in context it is asking how to cross them. I relied to the tread with a suggested route that I would take which her plane could handle the elevation of terrain. You suggested (to a pilot presumably unfamiliar with routes to cross them) that she fly through some pass you know about, and that the entire route could be flown safely at 3500'.

    So that's why I keep bringing the Rockies up. I thought it was relevant. I hope that helps make more sense.

    What doesn't make sense is Rock Springs... What does Rock Springs have to do with anything really?
     
  24. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    I stand corrected... You can see all the way across the rockies there. I'm guessing that's somewhere in Nebraska you're flying over at 3500'... and indeed, I can make out the Space Needle there if I squint real hard.
     
  25. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    that's the cascades, not the rockies.

    But now you are just being silly.

    If you ever get to Seattle/The great north west, I'll take you flying and show you the Cascades.
    It is my back yard.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  26. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    Shoot... I read Rockies and thought she meant the Rocky Mountain range. I didn't realize she wrote Rockies but what she really meant was the Cascades. I feel like such an idiot for bringing up the Rockies.
     
  27. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Not a problem,, nice conversation, enjoyed.
     
  28. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Just to be clear,, Rock Springs Wy, to Ogden Ut. is the shortest route across the rockies.

    Look at it on Google maps.

    we did Casper Wy to Pocatello, wasn't that bad either.
     
  29. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If it's north of 25kts over the peaks it can get a little sporty.

    Depending on how high over the peaks you can get, unless you're topping them by quite a bit, much like flying around CBs without real radar, you're better off going VFR with eyes on the rocks and be able to maneuver as needed, be sure to be windaware and chose the correct side of the slopes
     
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  30. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    @ThereByAir and @Tom-D can we quit with the ****ing match and get back to this being a fun (and helpful) thread?
     
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  31. Martin Pauly

    Martin Pauly Pre-Flight

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    I am leaning towards what Tom-D was saying earlier. For a first crossing of the Rocky Mountains in a light airplane like a 150, stay in VMC, and, make the flight under VFR. Much more flexibility for staying over (or at least near) safe terrain and at convenient altitudes, not to mention flexibility to change the course on the spur of a moment for sightseeing.
     
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  32. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Or winds, crossing with any wind you’ll for sure notice the difference between the sink on the lee side and the updrafts on the windward side, plus crossing over peaks IMC when it’s close to freezing can majorly increase icing. In a 150 I’d expect not to fly a straight line.

    Following KNOWN roads can be great for keeping you on course VFR wise too.
     
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  33. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    We can't really have a meaningful conversation about this if people don't understand the difference between IFR and IMC. Surprised at the lack of that understanding, especially from you Martin. I follow your videos and love your content on YouTube. I would have thought you'd know the difference.

    Can someone point me to who suggested this pilot fly over the Rockies in IMC? Please?
     
  34. ThereByAir

    ThereByAir Pre-Flight

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    And to be clear... to lean toward what Tom-D is saying, you're suggesting to a pilot unfamiliar with the terrain to navigate through mountain passes at low altitude as opposed to flying higher known, studied routes with guaranteed obstacle clearance. Unbelievable to me that suggestion is made and supported on this forum, and me suggesting getting some altitude and flying known published routes and altitudes is left out to dry.
     
  35. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    What's really shocking, is that someone agrees with @Tom-D :eek:

    Just kiddin Tom!

    Seriously though, the OP asked for suggestions. Everyone, including you, is giving theirs.

    That's one of the many reasons I like PoA.
    Every time I log on I call it my GUMPS check.... cause it's like a box of chocolates!
     
  36. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    He liked it so much he up and left already.
     
  37. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Shame... as only two people disagreed with him.
    And at least one Tom-D disagreement is default so it doesn't count. And if he can't get past 1 person disagreeing with him on PoA, well then.....
     
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  38. KaiGywer

    KaiGywer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Why are you arguing about whether or not flying in clouds over the mountains is a good idea? From the sounds of it, this trip is an adventure trip. To me, that indicates she wants to see and experience the country. The inside of a cloud looks the same on the east and west coast.
     
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  39. Martin Pauly

    Martin Pauly Pre-Flight

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    I don’t?
    Come on, this is getting a bit ridiculous.
     
  40. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Why would you think he doesn't? His post seems pretty clear to me: Stay in VMC *and* fly it VFR, with reasons given.