No new mergers :/

Well, that horse has already left the barn. It is a little too late to block mergers, IMO.

Besides, a lot of those mergers involve companies that may have ended up in Chapter 7 liquidation anyway, so the net result could very well have been the same.
 
Idiots in DC. Just -- idiots...
 
Maybe I just don't grasp how this one is different than the others?
 
Because the people in govt want to pick winners and losers. It's not important that the market be efficient, what's important is that the feds have their heel on the neck of industry. Don't contribute to the right party? No merger for you! Fail to support the correct candidates? No subsidies for you!

Blatant politics.
 
docmirror said:
Because the people in govt want to pick winners and losers. It's not important that the market be efficient, what's important is that the feds have their heel on the neck of industry. Don't contribute to the right party? No merger for you! Fail to support the correct candidates? No subsidies for you!

Blatant politics.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much it, along with this administration's socialist bent in general.

-Rich
 
Government at its very best,we decide who survives and how much money we will let you make.all of a sudden they are worried about the little person.What a bunch of bull.
 
flyingmoose said:
Maybe I just don't grasp how this one is different than the others?
Click to expand...
Two things/possible reasons:

First, Doug Parker is a cheap bastard who has made a mess of his previous merger and to this day failed to fully integrate the two airlines and now he wants to add a third. Perhaps folks in the govt realize that and want to stop it.

Second (more likely), Doug Parker, being the cheap bastard he is, hasn't greased the right palms to ensure that his deal went through. I am sure that now he will be forced to capitulate in order to make his dream come true. The dream of (as the Onion put it) creating the largest pain in the a$$.
 
In defense of all cheap bastards like me out there, the guys airline has made money. Something the last acquisition and current acquisition seem incapable of doing. It is survival of the fittest in the financial arena except when the pols step in and decide who will survive and who will be made to suffer.

Azzhattery at it finest.
 
Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. After the DOJ blocked the merger between United and US Airways in 2000, both airlines were in bankruptcy less than two years later.
 
Fearless Tower said:
First, Doug Parker is a cheap bastard who has made a mess of his previous merger and to this day failed to fully integrate the two airlines and now he wants to add a third. Perhaps folks in the govt realize that and want to stop it.
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This view is incredibly ignorant. The merged US Airways has been a success. The two pilots unions are suing each other and the only way it can be resolved is in court, not by the CEO.
 
dmspilot said:
This view is incredibly ignorant. The merged US Airways has been a success. The two pilots unions are suing each other and the only way it can be resolved is in court, not by the CEO.
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No it isn't, it's indicative of a CEO that didn't come to the merger with a plan that would work. Didn't see Delta and Northwest squabble. Or Continental/United. Or AirTran/Southwest.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
No it isn't, it's indicative of a CEO that didn't come to the merger with a plan that would work. Didn't see Delta and Northwest squabble. Or Continental/United. Or AirTran/Southwest.
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The legacy union agreed to binding arbitration and then changed their minds after the fact when they didn't like the result. It couldn't have been predicted.

Regardless, all of the unions were on board with the AMR/LCC merger. In fact, it would solve the current integration problem with the west and east pilots at LCC. The argument put forth above was nonsense.
 
The administration needs some distraction from the "phony scandals". Has little to do with the merits. Why else wait until two days before the final Bankrupcy hearing?:rolleyes:

Cheers
 
One might look at the states in which the two carriers are located, including their general voting patterns, and reflect...
 
Spike's comments are well noted. It is also noted that Parker made some comments in email (that were subject to Second Request and therefor disclosed) that spoke of limiting competition & raising prices.

It should also be noted that Virginia AND Texas joined the lawsuit, though I think Texas is seeking concessions. Virginia is home to DCA.

And speaking of DCA the combined carriers would have >>50% of the business there.... which would effectively raise prices at politician's favorite airport.
 
flyingmoose said:
Maybe I just don't grasp how this one is different than the others?
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The claim is that earlier mergers were allowed/necessary because the airline industry was losing money and the separate airlines weren't viable... i.e. the gubmint let it happen to save them.

Now they are profitable, and the government won't let them merge.

That's the jist of it, or so I'm told.
 
Like GReg said . . . it does not matter if American is allowed to merge with US Air - the AMERICAN Airlines Part 121 certificate of operating necessity is going away - either by merger with AWE or through Chapter 7 liquidation.

What the government thinks is not relevant . . . or important .. . .any longer.
 
Define "profitable" with airlines. Any of them not have billions in debt? I haven't looked lately.
 
I just bought some LCC stock right before the announcement. They've been looking good, not over priced, and I was just waiting for a dip in the price from being overbought. When it kept going down I'm like WTF .. made no sense. Then I saw the announcement. What a crock. If it don't go .. I think US Air will be ok .. American is questionable.

It's all politics.

RT
 
Hmm, I looked up the states involved in the action. What a marriage of enemies:

Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, along with the states of Florida, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia and the District of Columbia.

My state apparently doesn't want an airline in this state to earn money, except SWA. Weird.
 
The government should stay out of private business until there are only two left. Since the world is full of airlines, two of any of them merging should not be their concern. Bearing that in mind, the only reason then has to be political.
And lets face it, since the airlines now charge for everything, they, like banks and insurance companies, have been given a license to print money. Even IF the ticket prices do not go up, the "FEES" will. It used to be you could fly with two bags, now they even want to charge for carry-on. They charge for food. Some are starting to charge for soft drinks.
Yeah... The airlines are hurting for money.
AIRLINES ARE A MONOPOLY. Individually and collectively. If they just charged the real price for EACH ticket, they would not have to play the BS games they do now.
 
RogerT said:
I think US Air will be ok .. American is questionable.

It's all politics.

RT
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Look at the debt loads 2-3 years out.

silver-eagle said:
The government should stay out of private business until there are only two left. Since the world is full of airlines, two of any of them merging should not be their concern. Bearing that in mind, the only reason then has to be political.
Click to expand...

And a libertarian steps up.....
 
denverpilot said:
Oh you're so funny! ;)

The government is a business. They don't like competition either.
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It isn't competition the government is concerned about, it's control. That's why the crackdown on small business the last few years; it's hard to control thousands of successful small businesses who demonstrate an annoying lack of dependence on politicians or government for success.

Pennsylvania is one of the parties to this lawsuit, and reading some articles in the local media, you'd think that both the public and politicians feel that there is some type of entitlement for a business to "keep jobs here" in perpetuity. It's all about the next political campaign, and being able to stake a claim to "jobs created and saved" as a result of long-term destructive meddling in private enterprise. Screw 'em if they eventually go bankrupt and liquidate, as long as it's after the next election.

I'm no fan of American or US Air (especially US Air), but if the market were truly free, even merging into a single remaining airline would only be temporarily anticompetitive. There are thousands of airports in this country, and someone would figure out how to compete and take advantage of the massive opportunity to do so. Unfortunately, we've afforded the government so much "oversight" of so many things that many markets are no longer operate all that freely.


JKG
 
silver-eagle said:
The government should stay out of private business until there are only two left. Since the world is full of airlines, two of any of them merging should not be their concern. Bearing that in mind, the only reason then has to be political.
And lets face it, since the airlines now charge for everything, they, like banks and insurance companies, have been given a license to print money. Even IF the ticket prices do not go up, the "FEES" will. It used to be you could fly with two bags, now they even want to charge for carry-on. They charge for food. Some are starting to charge for soft drinks.
Yeah... The airlines are hurting for money.
AIRLINES ARE A MONOPOLY. Individually and collectively. If they just charged the real price for EACH ticket, they would not have to play the BS games they do now.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm, so things where better back when airlines were regulated ?
 
dmspilot said:
The legacy union agreed to binding arbitration and then changed their minds after the fact when they didn't like the result. It couldn't have been predicted.

Regardless, all of the unions were on board with the AMR/LCC merger. In fact, it would solve the current integration problem with the west and east pilots at LCC. The argument put forth above was nonsense.
Click to expand...

So you think throwing the non-ALPA American pilots into that fire is just going to make things better ?
 
Henning said:
Debt and profit are not directly in opposition of each other in our wonderful world of business.
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If you define profit as cash flow. Traditionally, profit is what you have after all the bills are paid.
 
Art VanDelay said:
So you think throwing the non-ALPA American pilots into that fire is just going to make things better ?
Click to expand...

They will all fall under the McCaskill-Bond statute which became law in 2007 which will eliminate the problem.
 
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dmspilot said:
They will all fall under the McCaskill-Bond statute which became law in 2007 which will eliminate the problem.
Click to expand...

REALLY ????
That's hilarious ! That amendment calls for BINDING ARBITRATION from the NMB !!!!! What you think got them into this whole mess to start with ? That does absolutely nothing to fix the dilemma and probably more to make it worse.
 
Art VanDelay said:
REALLY ????
That's hilarious ! That amendment calls for BINDING ARBITRATION from the NMB !!!!! What you think got them into this whole mess to start with ? That does absolutely nothing to fix the dilemma and probably more to make it worse.
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They agreed to it voluntarily last time. This time it is the law. They cannot renege on the result.
 
dmspilot said:
The legacy union agreed to binding arbitration and then changed their minds after the fact when they didn't like the result. It couldn't have been predicted.

Regardless, all of the unions were on board with the AMR/LCC merger. In fact, it would solve the current integration problem with the west and east pilots at LCC. The argument put forth above was nonsense.
Click to expand...
How's that Koolaid tasting?
 
denverpilot said:
If you define profit as cash flow. Traditionally, profit is what you have after all the bills are paid.
Click to expand...

I know a dealer, actually he has 5-6 new car dealerships, that converted ALL his debt to interest only a few years ago. He pays no principal on his debt and "makes" tons of money. He may be right, and I may be crazy, but I believe in paying off debt as soon as practical. :dunno:
He told me he wasn't concerned about equity, inflation and appreciation would take care of that. :dunno: He's riding in the back of a Premier 1, so ES doing something right.:D
 
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