No more Grand Canyon VFR Chart?

CC268

CC268

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CC268
So I have been told by my examiner that I need to plan a trip to Grand Canyon...only issue is that apparently the Grand Canyon VFR Chart is no where to be found. I have ordered from two separate sites one of which actually stated that they have been out for months and the FAA may not be printing them anymore. I believe the Las Vegas Sectional has Grand Canyon on it?
 
It's in skyvector.com. Open Skyvector, type "KGCN" in the "Go to" box in the upper left corner, then in the upper right corner there will be a button that says "Grand Canyon VFR". Click that, and the Special Flight Rules Area chart will appear. If you have Foreflight, it's in there, too. As far as getting a paper copy, I don't know.
 
Yea my guess is the examiner wants this planned on paper charts...I will ask my instructor today what to do though.
 
I just got one a few months ago from Sporty's.
 
Try joepilot.com, 800-247-8294. Their paper is much cheaper than Sportys.
 
I seem to recall having a tough time finding the Grand Canyon chart a couple years back too. As far as I know, it is still available though. You just have to work at finding it. If you're learning to fly near the Grand Canyon you might try asking at one of the local FBOs, I'd bet they carry the chart.
 
NoHeat said:
Yes, mypilotstore has the grand canyon chart.

That's a very good store for paper charts. It was my favorite, when I used to buy them.

It's sort of like being a favorite store for vinyl records and eight-track tapes.
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Nope...quite decieving...that was my original order...got the invoice with my other two sectionals I ordered and it said back ordered...so while their website says they have it they actually don't...looks like I will just have to use the Las Vegas sectional
 
Unfortunately the sectional doesn't show the "Flight-Free Zones" and the corridors. You may just have to supplement the paper Las Vegas sectional with an electronic copy of the Grand Canyon SFRA chart.
 
Very few pilots do not use some kind of electronic charting app these days...
 
dans2992 said:
Very few pilots do not use some kind of electronic charting app these days...
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I switched from paper charts to ForeFlight after my first solo cross-country flight. To have up-to-date VFR charts, sitting on the boundary of two sectionals and the boundary of two AF/D regions, costs me about $100/yr. If you confine your flying to one sectional and one AF/D, you can stay up-to-date for $50/yr. IFR charts add $103/yr to my total. So $75/year for ForeFlight was a no-brainer for me. (I don't need any Plus or Pro features and in particular have no desire to rent my logbook from them, so I keep that in another app and on paper.)

On the check ride, I used ForeFlight but I also showed my flight plan to the examiner on a recently outdated sectional, explaining that I would use ForeFlight for actual flight planning and execution but that it would be easier to discuss the plan with a paper chart given that we were seated opposite each other at his desk. It worked well that way.

For your check ride, do what's comfortable for you. Don't make big changes. It's already going to be what feels like your worst day of flying simply because of the pressure of the test. You'll forget how to start the engine or to retract the flaps after takeoff, or something like that, and you'll get through just fine. But don't add a learning curve to the experience. If you're more comfortable with paper, stick with paper for the test.

I don't know much about the Grand Canyon VFR chart as flying that far is just a pipe dream for me at this point, but the FAA does say the latest edition was published April 19, 2001.[1] They also say that it's available for $4.30 from the FAA.[2] Maybe you can get it directly?

[1] http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flig...catalog/doles/media/aeronav_DOLE-05262016.pdf
[2] http://aeronav.faa.gov/content/aeronav/pricelists/PriceListAeroNavAeroOct2012.pdf
 
dans2992 said:
Very few pilots do not use some kind of electronic charting app these days...
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These days, Foreflight is an option. It was not too long ago however when they didn't include the Grand Canyon chart. That's what sent me looking for the paper, and it wasn't easy to find then either. I think I ended up finding and ordering it through Amazon.

The good news is that the chart hasn't changed since 2004 or so, if I'm remembering correctly. If a person wants paper they don't have to be too concerned with whatever they get, either new or second hand, being out of date.
 
iamtheari said:
FAA does say the latest edition was published April 19, 2001.[1] They also say that it's available for $4.30 from the FAA.[2] Maybe you can get it directly?
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Yup the one I ordered from Sportys a few months ago is dated 4-19-2001, 3rd Edition. No longer listed for sale though on Sportys.
 
Yea I mean I use foreflight but I think the examiner might not like doing it electronically so I figured I'd do it on paper...don't want to fail the checkride for not using paper :((

I hear my examiner is a real stickler...
 
Once again mypilotstore does not actually have them...
 
CC268 said:
Yea I mean I use foreflight but I think the examiner might not like doing it electronically so I figured I'd do it on paper...don't want to fail the checkride for not using paper :((
I hear my examiner is a real stickler...
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I understand that completely, and I always personally carry paper chart backups. But I've never had a DPE bust me for using my iPad on a checkride. You might want to check out the FAA publication on EFB's.

I always came to the checkride with all the pre-flight stuff done on paper and electronically, with multiple routes just in case. In the end I ended up using the iPad. But just in case the guy said, no, I want to see the paper (I had that too).

Why bother buying the chart? Just get it off the FAA site: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/vfr/.

I go there for airport diagrams too..and plates, etc..
 
CC268 said:
Yea I mean I use foreflight but I think the examiner might not like doing it electronically so I figured I'd do it on paper...don't want to fail the checkride for not using paper :((

I hear my examiner is a real stickler...
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I realize that depending on your location this may or may not be an option, but if the examiner fails you for not using paper, I'd find a new examiner. Your CFI should know if the DPE is OK with it.

Even the FAA recognizes that paper is on the way out - they no longer print sectionals.
 
dans2992 said:
I realize that depending on your location this may or may not be an option, but if the examiner fails you for not using paper, I'd find a new examiner. Your CFI should know if the DPE is OK with it.

Even the FAA recognizes that paper is on the way out - they no longer print sectionals.
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WAC charts are the ones they discontinued.
 
Hank S said:
I bet the paper chart weighs a lot less than your iPad . . . or even my iPad mini. :cool:
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Almost! But having to buy three different afd's and 4 different sets of en route charts just the fly in the tri state is cumbersome. I'm so close to being ready for my instrument check Ride! Jessica is saying be finished by the end of June. i just ordered the paper versions with an expiration date of July 26th. So I better get it done by then
 
Congrats on the Instrument progress! It's tough, but satisfying, and makes the plane so much more useful.

But what's an AFD? I think I saw one once, as a student pilot; it was expired then. Flying out of HTW/HTS only requires one sectional, three books and two or three enroutes. Here, I'm as close to the end of Atlanta as you are to the bottom of the Cinci front side, so I get to use Jax and New Orleans, too. Only one book, but visiting Mom & Dad requires a second book, fourth sectional and another enroute.

Honestly, though, I don't often use enroutes, because sectionals have so much more information that sometimes comes in handy. With my checkride over and done, it's not a huge concern, and I've successfully completed IPCs when not getting much actual. Safety pilots are nice, but they are no replacement for actual or CFIIs.
 
That link says they're contracting out the printing, which implies that paper FAA charts will still be available, just not printed by the FAA itself.
 
CC268 said:
Yea I mean I use foreflight but I think the examiner might not like doing it electronically so I figured I'd do it on paper...don't want to fail the checkride for not using paper :((

I hear my examiner is a real stickler...
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Any bets the examiner knows you can't get a paper chart and he wants to see what you'll do?
There is a lot of data on the back side of that chart, make sure you download that data from FF.
 
CC268 said:
So I have been told by my examiner that I need to plan a trip to Grand Canyon...only issue is that apparently the Grand Canyon VFR Chart is no where to be found. I have ordered from two separate sites one of which actually stated that they have been out for months and the FAA may not be printing them anymore. I believe the Las Vegas Sectional has Grand Canyon on it?
Click to expand...
Just a Heads Up about flying the Canyon:
In 2014 I flew the length of the Grand Canyon from Lake Mead to KGCN. We followed the river at 8500 while staying out of the restricted areas. I had my 2001 Grand Canyon VFR chart out and started calling out my locations on the radio. The problem I had was the other planes in the area were calling out their location using shorthand terms like “I’m at South face of flat rock” I looked all over the chart and could not find it. I assume most of the aircraft calling out their location are tourist flights and they have done this route so much that the locals have their own terms for different spots along the canyon.
 
the latest version of the chart is from 2001?!? I guess I didn't notice that when I flew over it, but I used Garmin Pilot on an iPad and a 496.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
Just a Heads Up about flying the Canyon:
In 2014 I flew the length of the Grand Canyon from Lake Mead to KGCN. We followed the river at 8500 while staying out of the restricted areas. I had my 2001 Grand Canyon VFR chart out and started calling out my locations on the radio. The problem I had was the other planes in the area were calling out their location using shorthand terms like “I’m at South face of flat rock” I looked all over the chart and could not find it. I assume most of the aircraft calling out their location are tourist flights and they have done this route so much that the locals have their own terms for different spots along the canyon.
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If LA Center is not too busy you can stay with them on FF and they will even vector you around the restricted areas if you ask nicely. Obviously make sure you have the chart (paper or digital) and be at the right altitudes. The tour operators can go lower than you're allowed (and they do for a better view) so they're not really a factor if you follow the instructions.
 
Land at Marble Canyon, L41, airport. It is in the bottom of the canyon, above the park. Eat at the cafe.
Fly over Lake Powell. Land at Hite, UT03 (narrow and short) and then you can actually fly IN the canyon above Lake Powell, if you dare. There is a little gravel STOL airport above Canyonlands on the Green River. That one is Super Cub territory. Or gutsy 206 can do it if you are brave and know what you are doing. Be careful!
 
Scott@KTYR said:
Just a Heads Up about flying the Canyon:
In 2014 I flew the length of the Grand Canyon from Lake Mead to KGCN. We followed the river at 8500 while staying out of the restricted areas. I had my 2001 Grand Canyon VFR chart out and started calling out my locations on the radio. The problem I had was the other planes in the area were calling out their location using shorthand terms like “I’m at South face of flat rock” I looked all over the chart and could not find it. I assume most of the aircraft calling out their location are tourist flights and they have done this route so much that the locals have their own terms for different spots along the canyon.
Click to expand...
Per 93.307(a)(2), didn't you have to climb above 9000 MSL when you got to the Diamond Creek Sector, and above 10,000 for the Supai Sector?
 
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