no e-scooters in Airventure camping. E-bikes are good though

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Brad W

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I'm not likley to even go this year, but I happened accross this tidbit

General Camping Guidelines

Experimental Aircraft Association
www.eaa.org www.eaa.org

It seems that they have changed or clarified some rules for camping.
The thing that jumps out to me is that they are banning E-scooters but E bikes are ok.
say what?
Seems to me that e-scooters, generally speaking anyway, are going to be easier to fit into aircraft and would be very handy for pilots travelling anywhere...not only to Airventure. Folds up a lot smaller, obviously?!?>

And just yesterday I was watching a kid leave my daughter's school on one that was handling some fairly rough ground and grassy areas very nicely.
 
Brad W said:
I'm not likley to even go this year, but I happened accross this tidbit

General Camping Guidelines

Experimental Aircraft Association
www.eaa.org www.eaa.org

It seems that they have changed or clarified some rules for camping.
The thing that jumps out to me is that they are banning E-scooters but E bikes are ok.
say what?
Seems to me that e-scooters, generally speaking anyway, are going to be easier to fit into aircraft and would be very handy for pilots travelling anywhere...not only to Airventure. Folds up a lot smaller, obviously?!?>

And just yesterday I was watching a kid leave my daughter's school on one that was handling some fairly rough ground and grassy areas very nicely.
Click to expand...
Don’t make sense to me.

Electric scooters (e-scooters) are superior for short, urban, multi-modal commutes due to their high portability, low cost, and agility, while electric bikes (e-bikes) win for longer distances, comfort, and cargo capacity due to better stability, larger wheels, and pedal-assist capabilities.
 
Looks like that whole article is for Scholler. Guess I’m safe in the N40?


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I just want them to take away the little Honda Elite 50s from the CAP seagulls. There is enough sadness in life without being ballyhooed by a 13 year old because you put a pinky toenail over the burn line.

I'm sort of surprised one of the grizzled old crudgeons hasn't clipped one on the ear yet.
 
I did a quick search to see if there was any reasoning behind the ban of the E-Scooters and found a lot of things were banned. I didn't find any answers, but I thought it was funny that there were a lot more devices besides the E-Bikes that are still allowed. Also found a LOT of comments on the EAA Airventure Facebook page and the Admin turned off the commenting. The items both banned and allowed appear to be:

Banned
E-Motorcycles
E-scooters
Segways
E-unicycles
E-hoverboards
E-skateboards

Allowed
Bicycles
E-bicycles
Mopeds
Dirt bikes
ATVs UTVs

Restrictions for those devices that are allowed:
All of the above must be registered at the time of registration in the campground
You must sign a waiver and put a sticker on your vehicle/bike
Operation at night requires front and rear facing lights
10 mph speed limit
Must be 16 years old to operate a motorized vehicle
 
that earlier link reminded me....
and what's the difference as far as the rule is concerned between a scooter with a seat and an e-bike
and for that matter...what harm is an e-motorcycle going to do that a dirt bike, ATV, or those Honda Elite 50's mentioned earlier won't do....
Oh, and isn't that Honda Elite thing a scooter???
 
Brad W said:
Oh, and isn't that Honda Elite thing a scooter???
Click to expand...
You remember correctly, they are!

"The Honda Elite 50cc (SA50/SE50) is a popular, reliable two-stroke scooter produced from the mid-1980s to the early 2000s..."
 
schmookeeg said:
I just want them to take away the little Honda Elite 50s from the CAP seagulls. There is enough sadness in life without being ballyhooed by a 13 year old because you put a pinky toenail over the burn line.

I'm sort of surprised one of the grizzled old crudgeons hasn't clipped one on the ear yet.
Click to expand...
One of the bigger "Think hard before you say or do anything" moments in my life came as a result of being shouted down by a 13 year old 5 star General in the warbird area.
 
M20K said:
I did a quick search to see if there was any reasoning behind the ban of the E-Scooters and found a lot of things were banned. I didn't find any answers, but I thought it was funny that there were a lot more devices besides the E-Bikes that are still allowed. Also found a LOT of comments on the EAA Airventure Facebook page and the Admin turned off the commenting. The items both banned and allowed appear to be:

Banned
E-Motorcycles
E-scooters
Segways
E-unicycles
E-hoverboards
E-skateboards

Allowed
Bicycles
E-bicycles
Mopeds
Dirt bikes
ATVs UTVs

Restrictions for those devices that are allowed:
All of the above must be registered at the time of registration in the campground
You must sign a waiver and put a sticker on your vehicle/bike
Operation at night requires front and rear facing lights
10 mph speed limit
Must be 16 years old to operate a motorized vehicle
Click to expand...
E-scooters are prohibited and dirt bikes are permitted. This event is run by idiots,
 

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kyleb said:
One of the bigger "Think hard before you say or do anything" moments in my life came as a result of being shouted down by a 13 year old 5 star General in the warbird area.
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:D I bet you still think about that every so often and regret your restraint. I know I do.
 
I think the only chance of advancing through the CAPS leadership, is you have to be a prick starting young…….
 
I can't believe the couch is not allowed, or motorized bar stools.
 
The difference is that old people, including the ones who seem to run and make the rules at EAA, tend to ride e-bikes and similar. Kids and other young hooligans tend to ride the stand-up kick scooters, electric scooters and one-wheels, so those clearly must be banned. Definitely don't want the younger crowd actually enjoying themselves at EAA and wanting to come back. Good that they're finding more ways to make general aviation exclusive to crotchety old white guys...
 
M20K said:
I did a quick search to see if there was any reasoning behind the ban of the E-Scooters and found a lot of things were banned. I didn't find any answers, but I thought it was funny that there were a lot more devices besides the E-Bikes that are still allowed. Also found a LOT of comments on the EAA Airventure Facebook page and the Admin turned off the commenting. The items both banned and allowed appear to be:

Banned
E-Motorcycles
E-scooters
Segways
E-unicycles
E-hoverboards
E-skateboards
Click to expand...
maybe they got too many complaints about the lack of charging facilities…or nobody could use their electric razor at the shower house because all the outlets were being used for charging.
 
I will say, I’ve had far more close encounters walking on the N40 perimeter road with scooters and hoverboards than bikes, especially at night in the past few years. The riders seem fairly cavalier and are FAST.
 
bradg33 said:
Good that they're finding more ways to make general aviation exclusive to crotchety old white guys...
Click to expand...
I'm surprised New Balance doesn't have a booth. Should be right next to someone selling cargo shorts with 11 pockets.
 
bradg33 said:
The difference is that old people, including the ones who seem to run and make the rules at EAA, tend to ride e-bikes and similar. Kids and other young hooligans tend to ride the stand-up kick scooters, electric scooters and one-wheels, so those clearly must be banned. Definitely don't want the younger crowd actually enjoying themselves at EAA and wanting to come back. Good that they're finding more ways to make general aviation exclusive to crotchety old white guys...
Click to expand...
There has been a crap-ton of hooliganism in the campgrounds with various 4 wheelers, scooters, and the like. The EAA isn't the police and would prefer to nip it in the bud rather than needing to add another set of volunteers to further manage campground behavior. The ban on various transportation means is the end result of FAFO.
 
Seems like every time I join a group, they make more rules. I could get a complex.

Also seems like I'm not old enough to go yet. Maybe when I retire in a couple of years. I already have white walking shoes...just need to get some cargo shorts, and find a 2-stroke dirt bike.
 
It has been years since I've been to OSH, but reading some of the post it sounds like the various personal transportation devices have gotten out of hand by the idiots that ride them. Maybe it's time for EAA to put in a "metro" system of sorts and ban ALL wheeled devices (other than wheelchairs, etc.). Those little carts that run around the airport would probably be perfect.
 
This is mostly an issue in Scholler but it has gotten worse in N40 & S40 over the past couple of years. Driving through Scholler a lot of these devises are simply a menace, or more accurately the operators are a menace.
 
To borrow a phrase, speed kills. If all concerned would just slow the heck down, the need to discriminate between various modes of locomotion, be it an Escooter or couch, would be eliminated. Not to sound like an old crotchety fart (which I can be btw), I’ve seen many a driver of several different motorized vehicles who are clearly younger than the official age cutoff. That in itself doesn’t mix well with car/truck traffic already mixing with pedestrian traffic heading down the hill on Lindbergh avenue.

Maybe the EAA should consider widening the main east/west roads going through Scholler and include designated pedestrian walkways. No vehicles of any kind allowed.
 
bradg33 said:
The difference is that old people, including the ones who seem to run and make the rules at EAA, tend to ride e-bikes and similar. Kids and other young hooligans tend to ride the stand-up kick scooters, electric scooters and one-wheels, so those clearly must be banned. Definitely don't want the younger crowd actually enjoying themselves at EAA and wanting to come back. Good that they're finding more ways to make general aviation exclusive to crotchety old white guys...
Click to expand...
In my neck of the woods, the banned devices worked be considered "motor vehicles" and not permitted in parks, etc.
 
I got a couple CR80s I’m looking to sell…maybe I should bring them to OSH.
 
Lindberg said:
In my neck of the woods, the banned devices worked be considered "motor vehicles" and not permitted in parks, etc.
Click to expand...

Honestly, for largely the same reasons. The old people want the kids to get off their lawn, just like the old people at Oshkosh want them to get off their lawn there.
 
If they allow scooters and such, they should also allow paintball guns
 
Are you guys talking about Airventure or Burning man? Because I don't think anyone should go down that road. Water is good. Bathing is good. Clothes are good.
 
Could be liability or insurance issues. Easier to wipe out on a scooter than a bike. Turn the little wheel too sharp and you are flying though the air like Superman. Ask me how I know.

Did anyone figure out yet if this is only for Scholler or AirVenture wide?
 
Can’t get the link to work, but here’s a snippet of the aircraft parking guidelines…

9902bdcb9e138cf2821d6b9062f1e3e5.jpg



So far, it looks like it’s just for Scholler. Let’s not ask EAA, or they’ll think to crack down of aircraft camping too.


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tsts4 said:
… the operators are a menace.
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And that, is why we can’t have nice things. Put 450+ people per acre and there’s bound to be a jerk or two that ruins it for everyone.

I doubt restricting certain modes of transportation results in fewer jerks per capita. Some people just suck as humans.
 
Nobody is going to enforce this, unless you're being a complete Jackass, then the actual security scooter gang might get called.
 
I agree. Now the biggest problem in Scholler, is camper parking, people taking up 2-3 spots with one camper……… now get off my grass!
 
M20K said:
"but I thought it was funny that there were a lot more devices besides the E-Bikes that are still allowed."
Click to expand...
Ironically, an E-Bike is what started it. As Pelton's story goes "A 10-year-old was riding an e-bike at an excessive speed.....and was stuck by a Class A motor home" in what he terms could have been a fatal accident.

So the call to ban e-bikes was met by a barrage of angry letters from e-bike users. What to do? Ban all other e-powered devices. I assure you "e-skateboards" were not a problem on the unimproved pathways in Scholler as the tiny wheels are only suitable for paved surfaces. "Ban 'em anyway!"

Next up are noisy generators. Its seems "commerical" style generators are too noisy. I can only guess when the rule comes it will only ban
e-generators.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Could be liability or insurance issues. Easier to wipe out on a scooter than a bike. Turn the little wheel too sharp and you are flying though the air like Superman. Ask me how I know.

Did anyone figure out yet if this is only for Scholler or AirVenture wide?
Click to expand...

How do you know?
 
Because one dark night in Fayetteville Arkansas I was riding a rental scooter on one of Sam Walton's gilded bike paths. My phone rang and I swapped hands to answer it, launching me over the handlebar with arms outstretched. Landed on my chest in a huge pile of dog poop AND tore my rotator cuff.
 
crash7 said:
So far, it looks like it’s just for Scholler. Let’s not ask EAA, or they’ll think to crack down of aircraft camping too.
Click to expand...

No, the rules you quote are the ones that have been in effect for years. You can't have any sort of conveyance inside the show gates other than disabled-mobility things. In the GA camping areas, you can have them. The one quoted in the original post, indeed, are new and go further. It highly restricts various vehicles within Scholler to address a problem that has been brewing for years now, primarily with minors, riding the new crop of e-vehicles.
 
flyingron said:
No, the rules you quote are the ones that have been in effect for years. You can't have any sort of conveyance inside the show gates other than disabled-mobility things. In the GA camping areas, you can have them. The one quoted in the original post, indeed, are new and go further. It highly restricts various vehicles within Scholler to address a problem that has been brewing for years now, primarily with minors, riding the new crop of e-vehicles.
Click to expand...

There's not really much utility for e-vehicles within S40 and N40. They would be handy to get from the GA camping areas to the main exhibit areas without having to wait on a bus, but sounds like that is already banned.

I am probably going to buy a folding e-scooter for aerobatic contests. The hotels are usually a couple of miles away.
 
It's not been permitted to bring even bicycles into the main show in the 34 years I've been attending. I got them to condescendingly allow me to bring my folding minibikes into Vintage provided I push them in from the road.
 
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