Next they'll be giving out HS Participation Trophies ...

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Kenny Phillips, May 9, 2019.

  1. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,864
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
  2. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,825
    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jeff Oslick
    They are maintaining the honors system, just not the 1st and 2nd place "trophies". I wouldn't have a big issue with this. The difference, academically, between the top 10 or so students in a class of a few hundred isn't meaningful, and becomes arbitrary and dependent on factors that don't separate real academic ability. Do you honor the student that is a natural academic and didn't have to work that hard for great grades, or the student who had to work really hard to get those great grades? As for graduation speeches, I'd rather hear from the student who did something meaningful outside of school than the one who hit the books 6 hours a night.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  3. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    13,239
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Simply unbelievable.
     
  4. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    10,564
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    I thought high school diplomas were participation trophies....





    I graduated 3rd in my class. That is we walked across the stage in alphabetical order.....
     
    Eric Stoltz, ETres, jordane93 and 3 others like this.
  5. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    4,167
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    Yeah, I wouldn't really read too much into it. I will say that my wife has mentioned how wound up she used to get about her class ranking trying to get in that top 1% (out of 1,000) kids. I didn't really ever give it much thought, personally. I did find it interesting that, in the article, they were doing away with the valedictorian/salutatorian titles, but were going to keep the summa cum laude/magna cum laude/cum laude distinctions. I realize those are going to encompass many students instead of just one person, but I don't see the point in making segments of "you did fantastic", "you did great", and "you did okay", while simultaneously touting that you wanted to reduce competitive culture. Whatevs.
     
  6. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,950
    Location:
    I19 & SBS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Geezer
    I have no clue where I ranked in HS or College and couldn’t care less. Since I was accepted into Engineering and Grad school, made it thru both and had a successful career, BFD on ranking. Of course this was back in the dark ages.

    Cheers
     
  7. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    8,119
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    The pursuit of excellence becomes very difficult in situations like this. Oh, and in before the lock.
     
  8. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    22,222
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    Since I was born late in the school year, and skipped a grade prior to high school, it was made clear to me that I wasn't going to be "going away" to school and would be attending CC from home even if I got a scholarship since I would be finishing HS at 16. So, I slacked off A LOT in school. Didn't care much about GPA since CC would be what would be getting me into UofM, anyway (and it did). Knocked out the 95'-100's on the tests and did juuuuuust enough homework (about half) to make honor roll and get my gold tassel for graduation. Did have the highest ACT and SAT scores in my graduating class though.
     
  9. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    8,119
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    You're a smart fella.
     
  10. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    22,222
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    Well, I have avoided marriage. :D
     
    3393RP likes this.
  11. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    8,119
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    Genius!!!
     
  12. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    14,946
    Location:
    kojc, kixd, k34
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Matthew
    Huh. I don’t think they are the first to do this. With AP classes giving weighted GPAs it’s tough to figure out a “best” anyway.

    My daughter taught AP English in one high school. The attitude a lot of those students had was, “I’m only here because my parents made me”, and “Why work hard when I can get an A anyway?”

    She also worked in a different high school with “at risk” kids. The attitude there was, “I know I’m not an A student, and I know I never will be. But I am going to bust my tail to pass so I can get into that trade school, Army, Marines, whatever, and break out this ****-cycle of a life I’m in. This is my last chance.”

    She liked the attitude and work ethic of group 2 better. And they will never settle for some participation award.
     
    X3 Skier likes this.
  13. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,072
    Location:
    Illinois / Germany
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    NRG
    So either your last name isn't really Zeldman, or there were only 3 in your class....
     
    Stingray Don, Zeldman and Cooter like this.
  14. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    10,284
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    This page intentionally left blank
    Correlation does not imply causation.
     
    Eric Stoltz, PaulS and X3 Skier like this.
  15. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,248
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    midwestpa24
    I was 4th in my high school class academically, and had a 4.0. The other three took every AP class offered to get the weighted grades and graduated with above 4.0. Fine by me, I didn't like public speaking, and had no interest in giving a speech. Still got a ride to college, that's all that mattered.
     
  16. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,548
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shawn
    "Mason school officials made the announcement Thursday as part of an effort to improve students' mental wellness."

    Mental wellness is NOT teaching students that you succeed in life just by showing up.
     
  17. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,247
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cap'n Jack
    It is incumbent for the parents to instill a desire to exceed and a passion for excellence. The honors, whether academic or sports, help to demonstrate that hard work, good thinking, and a desire to exceed can be rewarded. The reality in real life after school is that rewards are often few and far between.
     
  18. IK04

    IK04 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Copperas Cove, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LNXGUY
    These m0rons are ruining what is left of our society.

    I'm glad I don't care what people think about me any more...
     
  19. cowman

    cowman En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,849
    Location:
    Danger Zone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cowman
    Just given what I’ve seen of such things I’d guess the source of the ‘competitive culture’ was the parents not the students.
     
  20. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    14,946
    Location:
    kojc, kixd, k34
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Matthew
    Back in my day...

    We always had those kids that did everything they could to boost their standings in the rankings. Was it their "competitive culture" or their parent's? I don't now, and it really didn't matter. Those of us that weren't going to be on the top knew it, accepted it, and moved on. I think the new trend of easing up the competitive culture is more due to helicopter parents, or whatever you want to call those parents, that don't want their kid's self-esteem to be hurt because they didn't win. Then kids learn that self-esteem is the most important thing, and don't learn how to succeed on their own merits or abilities. Not every baby turtle makes it to the ocean, and learning that lesson later in life has way harsher consequences than learning early on that some other kid is going to try harder, work harder, and simply be better than you.

    There was an essay many years ago by Michael Barone, that he worked into a book.
    https://www.amazon.com/Hard-America-Soft-Competition-Coddling/dp/1400053064

    His take is that we coddle our kids through school (Soft America), then push them out into the world where it's a meritocracy (Hard America) and we play a serious game. Other countries have it reversed, they'll have a much more brutal schooling and a correspondingly high suicide rate, but when you get that corporate job you're set for life and can ease up. I read the essay, but haven't read the book. I keep meaning to get a copy and see how well it held up.
     
  21. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,246
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PPC

    I am pretty sure I graduated at least 30th in my class.
     
    Zeldman likes this.
  22. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    10,564
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    There was 33 seniors at my school that started the school year, and 30 graduated, so in academic rankings I was at least 30th...:lol::lol:
     
    PaulS likes this.
  23. Crashnburn

    Crashnburn Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    352
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Crashnburn
    Except for valedictorian and salutatorian, we got our diplomas alphabetically. I was first in line. I never thought what I did was what no one else could do. I attended class and stayed awake through them. I did the homework, and didn't wait until the last minute to start a long term assignment. I played football because I enjoyed it. Wrestled because it was supposed to help with football and I seemed to work harder wrestling than playing basketball, and ran track because it would get me out of class on track meet days. I had the highest ACT on record in my high school when I took it; but never took the SAT.

    Some of my older brother's classmates had kids that graduated twice. Once in their mother's bellies, and again on their own legs. Don't know how well two high school graduations prepared them for life.
     
  24. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Messages:
    2,839
    Location:
    Central AR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ARFlyer
    The difference between 1st and 2nd in my class was .001. I was solid middle of the pack out of 800 due to not caring about homework. Did all types of clubs, was the yearbook photographer, and was invited to the International Science Fair. However, homework can go DIE and slow a painful death.

    I graduated college with mostly As and one F. I found out Zoology IS NOT for me. :D
     
  25. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    10,564
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    After 42 years my high school trophy is still useful...

    [​IMG]
     
    Kenny Phillips likes this.
  26. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2019
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    Central NYS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MuseChaser
    It's fine that so many people don't care about rankings or how other folks view them, but it's a little difficult to reconcile that with taking away a form of motivation that DOES help many students achieve more than they would have without a ranking system. Those that don't concern themselves with their rank in their class certainly aren't harmed by the existence of a ranking system, while those that DO care are motivated by that very same system to push themselves further than they would w/out the system. It's a win-win. Taking it away may help students feel better about doing or achieving less, but how is that a good thing?
    I say this as a retired public school teacher and university professor who taught for thirty five years. There were always a number of exceptional, self-driven, brilliant students I was privileged to teach every year, but over the decades the more we focused on self-esteem and reinforced the concept of "you are ALL wonderful, exceptional individuals," the less the average overall achievement was, and the less motivated most students became to push themselves. Thirty years ago, virtually no students ever asked me, "Can I just take a 0 on this assignment instead of doing it?" In the last decade of my career, that was commonplace.
    Not all things work for all students; each one is different, and finding what motivates each one is THE trick and greatest challenge of teaching. Taking AWAY a form of motivation is nonsensical, in my view... unless it's an overtly cruel motivation, like physical punishment for lack of achievement for instance. Reward for excellence is hardly cruel, and an excellent motivator for many.
     
    X3 Skier likes this.
  27. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,653
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Sundog
    I watched a soccer game for younger boys, in a league tharpt didn't keep scores. Except for the 22 kids on the field - they all knew the outcome. My grandson mentioned the score to me, as in, "We won 3-2". Fatuous ass mom of another plater reminded him "we don't score here".

    He told her "You don't, but we do".

    He's older now; big, fast, mean as snake. Spent an hour every afternoon for a summer perfecting using his left hand in lacrosse. Gets ****ed if he doesn't crush it academically. Point isn't grandpa pride - just that he's preparing to compete, maling it a central aspect of living. He has fun, in that doing well is satisfying for him.
     
  28. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,169
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    3393RP
    Even though I was a slacker, didn't really care and could have made much better grades, the students that won the val and sal awards had my respect. They worked their asses off to get those grades. In 1975 there weren't AP classes and out of school functions that added points, nor was there today's grade inflation, which has turned generations of mumbling slouchers into 3.5-3.75 GPA academic stars.
     
  29. Fiveslide

    Fiveslide Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2019
    Messages:
    48
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fiveslide
    Our valedictorian was one of my best friends. We drank and partied together. He was one of those natural academics. Didn't have to put any effort into being the best. He got kicked out of NC State for pot possession in the dorm. Finished with some philosophy degree at Appalachian. Inherited a farm and some money from his grandfather. All he does is smoke pot, sell hay and mess off around his farm.

    I could have been close to the top of class. I was more worried about where the next party was going to be, where was the best place to smoke a cigarette as they had just done away with the student smoking area, girls and sports.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  30. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,246
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PPC
    There were 30 in my class.
     
    Zeldman likes this.
  31. wrbix

    wrbix Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,677
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilot Lite
    At the end of my medical internship year, I missed walking up to receive Best Intern award because I and a few compatriots were down at the Slip that afternoon drinking beers and generally carousing. Did not attend any graduation ceremonies after HS, either. Don’t know, nor care, where I ranked.
    A fellow has got to have his priorities.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  32. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    10,564
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Small schools has its advantages and disadvantages. At least I knew everyone in my class by first name, but every teacher knew who was skipping a class and where we would be....