New poll - fuel for VFR flight

How much fuel for a VFR cross-country return flight.

  • I always fill the tanks before I fly.

    Votes: 29 29.9%

  • I always fill to some other point, e.g. tabs, before I fly.

    Votes: 8 8.2%

  • I would be OK with at least one hour extra.

    Votes: 47 48.5%

  • 30 minutes extra is fine given the nice weather.

    Votes: 2 2.1%

  • Other.

    Votes: 11 11.3%
  • Total voters
    97
alfadog

alfadog

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alfadog
Well, seeing as the poll on the front page was pulled for smokin' hot, here is a new one.

How much fuel do you take on a return from a cross-country VFR flight of under two hours 90 minutes (see note). You flew up and now you are considering whether to add fuel for the flight back.

This poll is about comfort level in the air or your normal fuel practice and I am trying to eliminate other variables such as whether you want to support the FBO or if there is a convenient self-serve pump, etc. All valid considerations but not what I am curious about.

  • The fuel price is the same whether you fuel there or after you get back, no cost savings.
  • No other reason to buy fuel, such as to avoid a tie-down fee.
  • You do not anticipate any weather problems.
  • Do not consider weight and balance, i.e. you can fill the tanks if you want to.
  • Similarly, runway length is not a factor.
  • It is daytime.
  • You can accurately gauge how much fuel is in the tank (FuelHawk or the like).
I see there is some "Other". If you put "other" please leave a comment as to what you would do.

Note: I think the two hours is a problem as most do not carry five hours of fuel in their airplane or are right at that. The scenario I envision is that you arrived at your destination, had lunch, and now are pre-flighting the airplane for the ride back. You gauge the tanks and have xx fuel. Other considerations mentioned above aside, how would you proceed if you had say, 30 minutes reserve? one hour reserve? already in the tank. Would you take off with 30 minutes reserve? one hour reserve? or do you always fill it or ??
 
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Just get me back with fuel to spare. One hour extra is my minimum. Although, I have topped off at FBOs prior to the return, even though I didn't need to - they lent me a crew car, so I bought some fuel.

On a Cessna, I have a Fuel Hawk, so I can tell how much I have - on the Piper I figure that at least one tank has to be at the tab.
 
Under the circumstances you have detailed, it would probably depend on time and the FBO. I'm more than comfortable with an hour reserve for a VFR flight. So if my intention was a quick turn, I wouldn't take on fuel. However, I am a believer in supporting good airports/FBO's and would buy their fuel as a thanks for good service.
 
Under two hours, if I were topped off prior to the first leg, I'd still land with over 2 hours of fuel in the tanks after returning to the original departure point. ;)

You gotta love long-range tanks. Unless you filled up and need the weight off. :)

There's 5.75 hours of fuel on board when she's full, conservatively using 13 gph as a burn number. We never burn that much up here.

It was closer to that when visiting Jesse in Nebraska, but hours at 90 knots doing approaches, meant it never really hit 13 gph.

We average 11.5 gph and I always plan with 13 gph for a safety margin.
 
I answered one hour extra. That is my personal minimum in the Cardinal. But I think your scenario is unrealistic. It is very unlikely that the fuel price will be the same at both the XC destination and home base. The purpose of the trip is also a consideration. If I am just flying a XC for fun I'll fully refuel at the XC destination. It takes about as long as I want to stretch my legs anyway. If the fuel price is the same, why not spread my $$$ around and support the FBO at my destination? If I'm taking passengers for a restaurant trip or otherwise flying with purpose depending on the schedule I may not refuel. The Cardinal has enough fuel range that a two hour cross country takes up less than half of the range adding a one hour reserve! So there is often no need to add fuel to keep my one hour reserve buffer.
 
How much fuel have I started with? I have a 51 gallon capacity at 10 GPH. I like an hour reserve, so for a two hour flight, I'd want at least 30 gallons. I would probably refill to tabs (38 gallons), so I could then accurately set my JPI EDM 700 fuel totalizer, and have a back up for what I have left. I don't mind have 18 gallons left in the tanks when I get back. The extra margin is fine, if I do not have W&B concerns.
 
I have 86 usable at 13ish/hr.
2 hours there plus 2 hours back. (I love the no wind days)
I'm still putting the plane away with over 2.5hrs of fuel left.
I'd probably top off before returning. :rolleyes:
 
If there's fuel available and gross weight isn't an issue, I generally top off for reasons of both safety and courtesy to the operator whose facilities I've used. Only reason I don't is if I've got a big cabin load and can't fill the tanks, in which case I upload what I can.
 
Ron Levy said:
If there's fuel available and gross weight isn't an issue, I generally top off for reasons of both safety and courtesy to the operator whose facilities I've used. Only reason I don't is if I've got a big cabin load and can't fill the tanks, in which case I upload what I can.
Click to expand...

This sums it up for me.

:yesnod:
 
I'm one of those old school, "The only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire", kinda guys. I usually operate with all the fuel I can haul considering my load and the runway/weather conditions.
 
It looks like most so far are either "one hour" or "top off". So what are the five "other" doing? Kinda makes me wish I had not put that "other" option. It just confuses me :confused: My first poll, or at least the first in many years.
 
alfadog said:
It looks like most so far are either "one hour" or "top off". So what are the five "other" doing? Kinda makes me wish I had not put that "other" option. It just confuses me :confused: My first poll, or at least the first in many years.
Click to expand...

I voted "other" because of the reasons stated in my post.
 
dmccormack said:
I landed once with 30 minutes of fuel left (in the Chief, returning from Windwood).

It was not a good feeling.

:no:
Click to expand...

Well, since we are confessing :wink2: I will confess that this poll was prompted by my last cross-country. Details to follow but I landed with well over 30 minutes fuel and closer to over 45 minutes. Did not like it, either.
 
N801BH said:
Me too... Sitting across the table from a bunch of FAA and NTSB guys having to explain why my tanks were empty scares me to death..:yesnod::yesnod::wink2:
Click to expand...

Still a student here, but add me to this list. I don't see any reason not to fill up prior to return.
 
I normally bring as much fuel as possible, especially since I'm renting and fly different planes.
 
alfadog said:
Well, since we are confessing :wink2: I will confess that this poll was prompted by my last cross-country. Details to follow but I landed with well over 30 minutes fuel and closer to over 45 minutes. Did not like it, either.
Click to expand...


It was "legal" and I knew how much I had.

I flew over a Class D I knew well where I planned to refuel, but 10 miles out I heard a twin call in a mayday -- they were coming straight in with a single engine.

I decided I wouldn't muck up the works or get stuck at KMGW...

:dunno:
 
alfadog said:
That's cool. What would be the minimum for a 90-minute cross-country? For you?
Click to expand...
No solid answer for that. It depends on the location, weather forecast among other things.

I am comfortable with less than full fuel if there are plenty of airports to divert to along the way if winds are worse than forecasted or other weather pops up. Other cases where there may not be a good divert place, I won't push it. I want to have options.

In some parts of the country, 30 minutes of extra fuel will allow a safe divert to at least 4 or 5 other airports with fuel. In parts of the western US, on the other hand, 30 minutes to an hour is not going to get you anywhere.
 
Unless I expect to need the extended range (5 hour legs or more), I NEVER fill all the tanks. There's no need to tanker 70 gallons more fuel around than is called for.
 
Ron Levy said:
If there's fuel available and gross weight isn't an issue, I generally top off for reasons of both safety and courtesy to the operator whose facilities I've used. Only reason I don't is if I've got a big cabin load and can't fill the tanks, in which case I upload what I can.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

I want an hour's reserve, so that if things go according to plan I'll land with an hour in the tanks. There are exceptions, but that's my "normal" practice.
 
Club rules say to put the plane away with full tanks. So I always plan for that. Given that I went out with no more weight in the cabin than full tanks would allow, if I gas up somewhere along the way I just fill it again. And again when I get home. Makes life simple.
 
I set my limit at 1 hour of fuel remaining.

I also only fill to the tabs, because that gives me 5 hours endurance. I only have a 2.5 hour bladder. So generally I'm on the ground with 2.5 hours of fuel remaining. In which case I will likely fill back up to tabs.
 
my empty weight is 1635, my gross is 2200, my tanks are 60 gallons do the math.
 
Tom-D said:
my empty weight is 1635, my gross is 2200, my tanks are 60 gallons do the math.
Click to expand...

That's a silly design. While I can understand trading off payload for useful food, 25 pounds remaining after full tanks isn't a really useful configuration.
 
flyingron said:
That's a silly design. While I can understand trading off payload for useful food, 25 pounds remaining after full tanks isn't a really useful configuration.
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That's what happens when you put a bigger engine on it.

I mostly run 30 gal or less, it only burns 9 per hour full rich, which we never do.
 
I would say it all depends on what your personal minimums are. My plane has a little over 4 hours endurance if I don't lean. My personal min on cross country is 3 hours, then time for a stretch and fuel stop. I would probably purchase some just to give me a little safety cushion should something happen. Better safe than sorry.
 
My favorite fuel management technique is to always take off with full tanks. If I make an hour flight and only have an hour to the next stop, then I will probably skip topping them off. Otherwise, full tanks are a very good thing from where I sit.
 
I load for what the trip calls for. If I'm doing a short cross town ferry on a nice day, I'm going to minimize my excess combustibles. If I'm flying across sparse country a long way, I may carry a greater percentage reserve to account for longer legs between fuel stops and the effects of unfavorable winds.
 
Well last night we thought we started with more fuel that we did, but we were about to leave Roswell and checked the fuel. Gauges were indicating half tank, but tank looked a bit lower. We knew we had enough for maybe 45 minutes extra but it would be close.

Normally in this situation i would walk into the FBO and get it topped off, but in the instance I walked in, asked the fuel prices, and the lady says 7.50 for 100LL. I almost asked her what she was smoking, and if she would care to share.

We decided to get Flight Following, and take a flight path over an en route airport. This is the one time so far that we have cut it that close.
 
So set firm limit above the FARs I want more reserves for x-c flights ore iffy weather/dark than for a hop around the patch to warm the oil
 
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