mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Damn, almost had me excited there with all that sex talk but then you threw that FTB thingy in there, of which know nothing of.
New old truck
- Thread starter Tarheelpilot
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Damn, almost had me excited there with all that sex talk but then you threw that FTB thingy in there, of which know nothing of.
Unit74
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Unit74
Damn, almost had me excited there with all that sex talk but then you threw that FTB thingy in there, of which know nothing of.
Franchise Tax Board, aka legal robbery, because its a state actor not a private entity. Its also one of the reasons a lot of industry picked up shop and crossed the border eastbound, and still is for that matter. You can only blood let the body so long before the marrow has nothing more to give. Just ask George Washington what he thinks about the matter......
Tarheelpilot
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Thanks for the referral to rob. He's good people
For what it's worth, I wouldn't consider what you describe here as "tuning". But, even at that level of knowledge and experience it isn't too hard to make improvements. What scares me at that level is the lack of knowledge with what is happening when making the changes.
To tie this back to the original post, I would have about zero interest in a Smarty programmed (or any other programmer for that matter) Dodge. The efilive truck at least has efilive, you can right the wrongs before things get out of hand if necessary.
denverpilot
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Before Unit gets the thread locked with his rants... LOL...
What do you mean? Smarty makes monitors and has for a long time, and most folks using their stuff (I hope) have generally installed instrumentation far above factory.
It'd be insanity to modify these trucks from stock and not install a pyrometer and a boost gauge, as a bare minimum. But I haven't yet met anyone quite that insane, either. I don't think that's common at all.
Are you saying you meet people who do the Smarty non-monitor versions with no gauge upgrades regularly? I definitely haven't. I'm sure *someone* has, but there's always someone on the left side of the bell curve.
Even the stock truck, as I've mentioned previously, will exceed the Cummins warranty and operational specs for EGT in a long hard pull. Why Dodge and Cummins both allowed that and didn't put defueling code into the ECU for that, is beyond me, but it's reality. Cummins docs don't line up with what the Dodge ECU will allow.
If the truck the OP is looking at didn't have add on gauges, which I would bet money it does, I might be worried about the Smarty. But the reality is, you're going to have to worry a little about any used truck, factory or non-factory, anyway.
The former owner of my truck bought the unlock code for the Extreme mode on the Edge Juice w/Attitude. I wouldn't have. I also don't run it up there. Totally useless on a truck with a stock drivetrain.
He probably played with it a few times and never touched it again, or the thing would have a new driveshaft on it. Haha. Probably lucky he didn't break the clutch.
Tarheelpilot
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Unfortunately the smarty programmed truck doesn't have gauges or a monitor. Not interested in that one anymore. The one with the deleted emissions is off the table too. To much driving in California not to have that crap on the truck.
denverpilot
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Ahh makes more sense now. The Smarty can be reversed and even put back to stock pretty easy, though.
One other benefit of the 5.9... it doesn't have any real emissions stuff to even be missing if you have to drive in places where someone might actually check. Nothing to "delete".
Dodge met the diesel standards for a very long time while avoiding hanging any crap off of the Cummins.
Tarheelpilot
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I'll most likely end up with a 6.7 that looks complete but is better for the environment because it will burn less diesel.
Theboys
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I've had a 2002 Chevy duramax since new. Still only have 90000 miles on it. Snowplow people told me they didn't really want to put plow on it as it supposedly had to light of frontend. Had a plow on the older 98 style and worked pretty good. So I bought bunch of fords. They worked good. Glad I live in Florida in winter now.
Before Unit gets the thread locked with his rants... LOL...
What do you mean? Smarty makes monitors and has for a long time, and most folks using their stuff (I hope) have generally installed instrumentation far above factory.
It'd be insanity to modify these trucks from stock and not install a pyrometer and a boost gauge, as a bare minimum. But I haven't yet met anyone quite that insane, either. I don't think that's common at all.
Are you saying you meet people who do the Smarty non-monitor versions with no gauge upgrades regularly? I definitely haven't. I'm sure *someone* has, but there's always someone on the left side of the bell curve.
Even the stock truck, as I've mentioned previously, will exceed the Cummins warranty and operational specs for EGT in a long hard pull. Why Dodge and Cummins both allowed that and didn't put defueling code into the ECU for that, is beyond me, but it's reality. Cummins docs don't line up with what the Dodge ECU will allow.
If the truck the OP is looking at didn't have add on gauges, which I would bet money it does, I might be worried about the Smarty. But the reality is, you're going to have to worry a little about any used truck, factory or non-factory, anyway.
The former owner of my truck bought the unlock code for the Extreme mode on the Edge Juice w/Attitude. I wouldn't have. I also don't run it up there. Totally useless on a truck with a stock drivetrain.
He probably played with it a few times and never touched it again, or the thing would have a new driveshaft on it. Haha. Probably lucky he didn't break the clutch.
The problem with Smarty and any other fueling and/or timing box is that you have no idea what you bought. How do you know how much fuel or timing is being added, or how much rail pressure is being commanded? Sure, you can use OBD2 monitors and add on gauges but that will only tell you a fraction of the story. What is to say that whatever shop or company you bought that fancy programmer from really knew what they were doing or that they're any good at tuning?
When shopping for a truck where tuning software exists that allows you to look at and manipulate tables within the ECU to make it do what I want, that is what I want to have. Well, that or an old mechanical pump that I can set up myself. Hence the reason I have zero interest in what someone else came up for a program that may or may not play well with other modifications on the truck.
Also, for what it's worth, you've met someone now who has had minimal additional gauges in any of my trucks. That doesn't mean I haven't measured stuff or run data acquisition on it, I just don't do it all the time. My philosophy is that I create one tune up for a truck and it doesn't change regardless whether I'm towing 15,000 lbs or driving around unloaded. I fail to understand the concept of a "towing" or "race" program, it's all the same in my book and my setup will be conservative.
Regarding stock trucks and what Cummins has outlined for specs, different applications require different engine calibrations. It may be that Cummins/Dodge could not adhere to those specs and create an emissions compliant engine. Emissions drives everything anymore, so that likely was a major contributing factor and performance and durability often take a back seat. A little extra temp for relatively short duration really doesn't hurt longevity from what I've seen anyway, sitting in the test lab.
denverpilot
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Ummm. Perhaps we are talking about different Smarty boxes here, but their settings are done at their factory. The local shop has nothing to do with what comes from Smarty unless they have newer stuff. You can simply call Smarty and ask them what they're doing and they'll answer. Especially if you think it'll behave poorly with another mod on the truck.
Phone calls are hard, I know. Haha. AFAIK nobody I know has said they don't answer their phone. LOL.
If anything ... you'd want to avoid an EFILive tune by a backyard mechanic just as much or more. Can't even just remove the thing like you can easily with Smarty or anyone else's add on stuff. Can't EFILive permanently jack up the settings and give no way back to factory stock?
Do you take calls during business hours? LOL.
Great. Some people like DIY, some like a range of stuff done by people who certainly have as much knowledge as you and years in the industry doing it, also, who have reputations to maintain and aren't really all that bad at it. Or they wouldn't be in business.
Again, good for you.
If you're failing to understand changing a setup to do different things, that's kinda strange. People don't put racing slicks on the car to drive it in the snow.
It was 2001. Emissions wasn't driving anything at all back then.
It's was simply a decision by Dodge in stock configuration to be over the recommended temps for EGT by Cummins, and without a gauge installed by someone along the line, the owners would never have known. Everyone knows nowadays, it's not new news.
Not sure how this all relates back to the two trucks the OP wanted opinions on, but it's a fun tangent I guess. Your assertion is that everybody selling any tuning product isn't as trustworthy as you and you like your own tuning. Okay.
I don't think anyone here ever argued you shouldn't or couldn't DIY if that's your bag. I guess I did ask why you liked EFILive over other stuff, so there ya go. I asked and you answered.
Someone accepting that your tune is "conservative" and done right is as crazy as accepting that someone's box is done right, without research and knowing a bit about what they're doing, themselves. Especially buried in the ECU after you unhook your copy of EFILive and they can't revert it. Same problem, really.
I don't even have a Smarty. I have an Edge. They're dumber than the Smarty but have been evaluated and tested by all sorts of folks and used by thousands of shops. My own local Cummins expert's commentary was this...
"I'd sell you a fancier computer with more settings if you want it, but that one for what you're doing is fine, and since it came with the truck, it's free, versus anything I'd sell you. With the "53" block you're not going to be putting on any of the twin turbos I like, so I'd say you're all set for towing. See ya in 100,000 miles."
Wait a second. I have this weird feeling you SELL EFILive tunes... or the software... is that why you're big on them? Do you have a vested interest in EFILive? I ask because most really good pro shops will happily use any of the major names for Cummins changes from stock. They can make any of them perform just fine. Kinda like my guy.
I suspect if I said I wanted a Smarty he could offer up exactly what the Smarty does well and doesn't do well, and tips on which factory settings to use. EFILive, he certainly has some saved files for that for various setups he's done for years. Edge, same... he'd know what to set it to. I don't know any pro tuning shop that couldn't make any of them do whatever someone wanted to do.
A pro shop can do it all... pick a name and a price you like, they'll tell ya what works and what doesn't. If they've been around for any length of time.
You don't understand. You're stuck with whatever smarty decides to put in the box, and you have no idea what it is that they're putting in it. Sure, you can fiddle around and get some results but on a truck that EFILive supports, why bother?
That absolutely is a risk, and it isn't just from backyard tuners. There are plenty of shops I want no part of their "tuning" as well. They're hacks, and you'll wreck stuff. This is exactly what I meant earlier when I said that I didn't consider what Unit74 referred to as "tuning" was the same thing as what I consider tuning.
Someone that is half smart ought to be saving a base file that you could reprogram before proceeding so you could revert to a known good file. I've come close to bricking a few ECUs but if you know a little about electronics and what is happening it isn't bad.
It sounds like you've bought the goods that the aftermarket has sold. The majority of the trucks and people running multiple tunes are doing so on an otherwise relatively stock engine, and there really is limited use for doing so. Set the programmer where you like it and leave it alone.
It was more than you think. If emissions was not a factor there would have been no driving force to put any sort of electronics on the engine and the old mechanical pump trucks would have continued on.
I don't sell anything nor have any vested interest in aftermarket performance stuff. I've just done a lot of it over the last 20+ years, both gas and diesel, focusing on late model stuff. I work at an OEM in the test lab. Long story short, I trust none of the aftermarket companies and prefer to develop and fabricate my own parts and do my own tuning. If I couldn't do it and support it myself I'd leave it stock. At least you know the OEMs do some durability testing.
denverpilot
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Explain to me how you work in an OEM test lab and yet have no vested interest in any of this? That doesn't make any sense at all.
I mean, it's great that you have access to such stuff and what not, but what does it have to do with what any of us normal folk in the real world can buy?
You bad mouth the aftermarket, saying you don't trust them, and that's fine as a base opinion, but it makes no sense. There's plenty of professionals using and selling what the aftermarket provides, and many of them have reputations to keep and families to feed on those reputations, and they've been doing it for decades.
It's not like you're inviting everyone who owns a truck who needs changes made to it to make it a stronger towing machine, or who wants to sled pull, or who wants a racing machine, over to the lab and building stuff for them. Well maybe you do, but not the OP or anyone here.
So not intending any disrespect, but I'm also not sure why any of us would care what you do to your truck? We were simply discussing the merits of what's out in the real world for them.
And of course trying to get enough info on the OPs decision between two trucks to offer him info on what's worked for us.
Maybe I missed something. What was being said that suddenly made "Become a guy who has access to an OEM test lab" an option for anyone in the real world? LOL.
I do think you've hit on an important point though. Your version of the word "tune" and the rest of the world's may be a bit off. I don't call what I've done with my truck a "tune" for that reason, but it's slang for "changed the performance parameters normally handled by computer controls" these days in the aftermarket.
It definitely isn't "throw in a new set of points and plugs and wires and put a timing light on it" which is what a "tune up" would have been when I was a kid. Hahaha.
Is this all just a misunderstanding based upon the semantics of that word? 'Cause I don't think anyone who owns one of these trucks is probably going to take the time to go work in an OEM lab.
EFILive is a great tool, but it's not really necessary to know the full depth of a tool like that to get an older Cummins better set up to do certain things.
You caught me fair and square on the Bosch thing though. It really was the first "emissions" device on these trucks. And it'd be hard to say the VP44 hasn't been the largest unmitigated disaster, other than perhaps the steering system and front suspension, on the 2nd Gen Dodge Rams. But it's a well known disaster at least.
Everyone rips the tank mounted lift pumps out, installs a pump that'll actually survive 300,000 or more miles, like the AirDog or the FASS, and makes sure that silly Bosch never sees less than 13 PSI at its input, so it doesn't self destruct. And then there's places that rebuild those VP44s to better tolerances and with higher quality than Bosch just to hope they'll last a while. Even Bosch had to change the internal design of the thing to try to keep from shearing the rotor off the pump at instant deceleration when you removed the throttle quickly. (Hey, guess when mine died? Haha.)
So... just to counter your anecdotes about OEM vs aftermarket, if the aftermarket had not figured out what was killing VP44 pumps, how many $1000 pumps would Dodge as the OEM have liked to see people put in these trucks over their lifetime? I would not give Dodge or Cummins high marks on how the VP44 debacle has been handled over the years, that's for sure. It's a POS compared to the expected longevity of the rest of the motor.
Same with the steering track bar and the rest of that assembly. Aftermarket makes much better replacements for those and every component out to the wheel in the steering system. Dodge didn't engineer the front end right for the added weight of the Cummins and everyone knows about the "death wobble".
Sooooo... OEM? Aftermarket? Big engineering mistakes have been made by both. BIG mistakes.
But the trucks are old now (just broken in? Heh) and all of these things are now "well known", and all you have to do is look to the aftermarket to fix the most egregious errors Dodge and Cummins made. Even the dangerous ones like the steering track bar. And if your lucky enough to have asingle rear wheel, you can get rid of those awful drum brakes and put proper discs in the back. All courtesy of the aftermarket.
That's the whole fun of an older truck.
Someone else got to argue at the dealership when Dodge said they wouldn't pay for a new VP44 under warranty. (The joke about the VP44 is, if yours hasn't, it's about to.)
By the time I bought mine, I just knew the silly thing would fail. It did. In Nebraska. Towing the trailer. No surprise. If the damned VP44 core charges weren't so high, I'd just carry a spare. They're junk.
Blue Chip will at least make you one that might survive a while. Darn that untrustworthy aftermarket! Haha.
You know what hasn't failed? The AirDog lift pump. It probably extended the life of the VP44 I had by tens of thousands of miles.
You also mentioned "stacked" tunes. I don't think anyone here recommended that at all. I've seen dummies on the Net say they're doing that, by they don't realize computers don't work that way. LOL. Stacking one device on top of another that both alter timing or fuel pulse width or what have you, unless they're controlling different parameters, doesn't do diddly. You get one parameter change. Haha. Nobody here recommended that silliness.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Ooh. Since all the gearheads are here in this thread anyway...
Cummins just got back into the crate engine game.
2.8L little diesel.
I can think of all sorts of smaller vehicles this would be a Tom of fun to drop into.
https://cumminsengines.com/repower
Cummins just got back into the crate engine game.
2.8L little diesel.
I can think of all sorts of smaller vehicles this would be a Tom of fun to drop into.
https://cumminsengines.com/repower
I'm going to spare the rest of that post, but I want to point out that I never mentioned anything about stacking tunes.
As far as my ties with an OEM influencing my opinions and my ability to manipulate tables in a different manufacturer's engine using third party software goes, it hasn't. I was fiddling around with this stuff for a long time before I went to work where I do (and I don't do calibration work at work anyway), and my seemingly unorthodox approach to things was set in stone a long time ago. I started messing with this stuff in high school and it is largely self taught through research and trying things, reinforced with observation and now correlation with similar tests performed at work. Having a solid understanding of how an engine works plus being willing to experiment and make ECU changes to see what happens is all it takes to get started. Anyone can do it if they're willing to put forth an effort to figure it out. The problem is, most people aren't willing to put forth that effort and get less than optimal performance as a result, when they talk themselves out of figuring it out on their own and relying on someone else from two states away to send them a file to upload or a magic box to install. This is particularly true the farther away from the stock configuration you go.
One thing that working for an OEM has reinforced is how inadequate the testing often is on aftermarket parts. Obviously aftermarket companies research budget is much smaller, to the point of being nonexistent in some cases. In those situations the customer becomes the tester. On a vehicle that a person expects to be reliable and drive anywhere that's not a quality I'd be looking for. Do the OEMs screw up? Yes. Manufacturing costs, emissions, and even just personal pride often factor into their designs and not all of the designs are necessarily good.
We're living in a great time when it comes to the availability of powerful tools to see and manipulate ECU configurations. Some of the software is even free, depending on what engine/platform you're working on. It's a shame that people don't want to use it and learn it. I would have loved to have the tools we have today back when I started doing this stuff in the '90s.
denverpilot
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Umm ... that weird assumption that either Smarty or any others mentioned are file based... again. They're not. Not the ones I've seen.
They're boxes with real time adjustments these days.
Haha I just gave two solid examples of MAJOR systems on these specific trucks that are NOT safe nor were "properly tested" by the OEM, and it's never ever been addressed by the OEM, either.
Those same systems were left unmodified for nine years on the second gens... so none of it was a surprise after about the third or fourth year, either.
Sorry, I'm not impressed with their "testing" if every VP44 ever installed has failed, and they never fixed it. Definitely not impressed with whatever "testing" they did on the steering track bar either. It's designed to fail.
Concerned about testing from aftermarket, when OEM doesn't even address real world failures like the VP44 for a decade? That's kinda hilarious, really. On the 2nd Gens, to this day, 19 years after they came out, the aftermarket is still the only people who've fixed those two problems. The OEM hasn't ever done boo about them. Testing? How about fixing? LOL...
No argument. But I think you're assuming they don't. And also assuming what some of these boxes actually do, because you haven't seen one in a while.
In a great many cases, you could hook up EFILive to the truck while the box has made a change and go, "oh, yeah... that looks real close to what I would have done for that sort of setup"... because someone at the box manufacturer did exactly at you do... they probably even used EFILive to work it up, and then stuck it in their box.
Nobody working with a good local shop sends off "two states away" for an EFILive file, the local shop makes it. Plus what's "two States away" mean anyway in the modern world? Phones and emails aren't instant? FedEx doesn't do overnight deliveries? Distance to an expert means nearly nothing these days, if you're working on something super crazy that only one person knows.
But there's never just one person that knows something on these trucks at their age. All sorts of people know the parameters as well as you in the computer and even made businesses out of knowing it and doing it for people.
If someone wants to DIY, great. If they don't, that's also easy and still high quality. These trucks have been around long enough to have super capable folks who can custom program, usually right at the local shop, or the customer may want a user interface like a Smarty or any other major brand. They all work. Especially on an old 2nd Gen like we're discussing. The Cummins ISB 5.9 is a very well known quantity at this point. Even the 6.7 in this old of a model year is.
That's what endears the owners of old trucks to them. These problems were all worked out years ago.
Sure I could buy EFILive and spend lots of time on it, or I could just take it across town to the guy who's been working on them since they were new. He isn't "two states away" and he can work with EFILive or whatever is out there. He'll tell ya if you're planing something that won't work out well, too. He has done Dodge Cummins trucks and only Dodge Cummins trucks for two decades. It's all he does. He's not horribly expensive, either.
gkainz
Final Approach
Well, technically not quite true. He's got a lot of years of maintaining and rebuilding the Allison T-56 engines, too, before he became an FE.
Tarheelpilot
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So I settled on an 07' 1ton, 4x4, dually megacab, manual with the 6.7 Cummins. Hopefully the previous owner knew the fuel filter needed regular replacement.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Very helpful and appreciated
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Very helpful and appreciated
gkainz
Final Approach
nice! congrats!
OK truck gurus, I have a 2000 Dodge Ram 2500 with a 5.9 liter Cummings engine. I have had it since 2002 and pulled a 7500# fifth wheel with it. I had the transmission rebuilt in 2007 for heavy duty towing, and they installed a heavy duty torque converter at that time along with replacing a couple of the bands . Two years ago I had to replace the fuel injector pump (v44?), a complete brake job including rotors, disks and pads. I have also replaced a couple of brake lines. It being turbo, it tows well and has been a very good truck over the years. I think though it is getting a little long in the tooth so to speak and started looking at getting a new one. The prices for a new replacement seems to be ridiculous to me, being old school and all. It appears that what I feel comfortable with price wise is about a 2010 to 2011 model, but the ones for sale seem to have 112000 and up miles on them. Mine has 128000 miles. It looks, rides and tows well. The problem at present is the wife doesn't want to trust it on long trips anymore, due to the pump going out and long story, but I had to order it myself away from home, wait for it to arrive and get installed etc. Am I pushing my luck with this one by still using it, and would I be better off up grading to a newer version?
Tarheelpilot
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The 01 I wrecked had almost 300k very hard miles on it. My trailer was about 16k pounds and I was routinely pulling it through the pacific NW and the Rockies. At 128k miles your truck has a ton of life in the engine.
If you want some insurance for the vp44 pumps you should get you an aftermarket fuel filtration system. Preferably one that not only filters but also removes entrained air. I like the fass titanium systems because the filters are easily sourced.
The vp44 requires excess fuel to cool the integrated electronic controls. When the lift pump fails it no longer gets the required cooling fuel and quickly commits suicide. There are no warning lights to let you know your lift pump quit you so a fuel pressure gauge is useful as well
If you want some insurance for the vp44 pumps you should get you an aftermarket fuel filtration system. Preferably one that not only filters but also removes entrained air. I like the fass titanium systems because the filters are easily sourced.
The vp44 requires excess fuel to cool the integrated electronic controls. When the lift pump fails it no longer gets the required cooling fuel and quickly commits suicide. There are no warning lights to let you know your lift pump quit you so a fuel pressure gauge is useful as well
Thanks for the reply @Tarheelpilot. I really like the truck, good to know you got that milage out of yours. Maybe it is worth putting a little money in it. I'll look into what you suggested. I have never owned a vehicle this long.
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gkainz
Final Approach
If that were mine, I would easily go for another 100k miles. Air Dog or FASS system, like noted above. If you haven't done so, a front end rebuild is looming, most likely. I upgrade my '07 2500 4x4 to 3500 tie rods, drag links, etc.
I ran my '97 2500 4x4 to 228,000 miles and the young guy who bought it is still hauling his girlfriend's horses around the country. My wife conspired with my cousin to buy his '07 because the '97 clear coat started peeling and "it's embarrassing to ride in this now" I protested, and still do, but secretly am very pleased with the '07 2500 Laramie... bought it with 88,000 miles a couple of years ago and plan on running it to over 200k or more.
I ran my '97 2500 4x4 to 228,000 miles and the young guy who bought it is still hauling his girlfriend's horses around the country. My wife conspired with my cousin to buy his '07 because the '97 clear coat started peeling and "it's embarrassing to ride in this now"
I protested, and still do, but secretly am very pleased with the '07 2500 Laramie... bought it with 88,000 miles a couple of years ago and plan on running it to over 200k or more.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Awesome truck... should last you a long time. The manual is the kicker for me when towing, great great stuff there.
I did that math when I allowed a wired shut wastegate that I didn't know about on an upgraded turbo (on the truck when I bought it) blow the head gasket on my '01 3500 dually.
The decision was, fix just the head gasket and bail, or take the time and money at a specialty shop (not the cheapest place per hour. But good!) to go over every nook and cranny of that truck mechanically and fix EVERYTHING (except sadly, at the time, the VP44... but the mechanic was right, you really don't know when they're going to go, and a crappy rebuild will run $2000, a good one can go as high as $4000 with options in between...)
The answer was, direct from the spreadsheet, rebuild it. Because you literally can't get a used one in any sort of known good condition at the low-ish miles mine had for anywhere near the price. And new? Unless you've got money you just HAVE to spend and want new, nope... it's a $50,000 or higher deal.
We put about $12,000 into it. Rebuilt the entire steering system with quality parts, head reworked and studded, new exhaust manifold to put the bigger turbo in a better location, rebuilt power steering pump, water pump, and new BHAF style air intake, were the biggies, and complete fluid changes and inspections on all drivetrain components, and I think we did bearings all around also. I'd have to look.
Even at that price, we still are into it, total, for half the price or less of a brand new one, depending on options and bling.
It has 120,000 miles on the engine and the mechanic said he won't see me for at least 100,000 UNLESS the VP44 fails. Well, it did... in Nebraska... and Dodge wanted $6000 just for the pump brand new... obviously we went hunting for one of the MANY rebuilders and got one from Central Nebraska Diesel, not known for being a high end rebuilder but also not known for junk... diesel trucks work hard in rural Nebraska. Out the door with labor, stuck using a dealership for the work, was about $2500.
Still cheaper than a new truck. By tens of thousands of dollars.
That's a pretty common story, but it was an early theory that turned out, didn't completely hold up. The fuel that was thought to cool the computer and internals of the VP44 later was found not to, especially once better non-contact temperature reading devices came along. Turbo Diesel Register has a lengthy discussion about this in a very old back issue, but essentially everything in the VP44 just gets hot. No way to really stop it, especially under heavy load.
What they did find was the computers in them are definitely susceptible to heat death, and at least one company tried hard to build a "remote mount" wiring harness to move the computer off of the top of the VP44, but the timing problems, and shielding of the cables, meant its nearly impossible to do.
In the meantime, Dodge and Bosch did a little work on root cause and found that clearances inside the pump are very tight and most failures happen at a sudden request to decrease power and flow. The shaft was snapping. They figured out part of the problem was the shroud around the impeller would warp under the immense pressures inside the pump when a sudden decrease of flow was experienced, so all rebuilds and new pumps have different metallurgy in both the shroud and the spinning shaft/impeller.
The whole pump also gets extremely bursty and can destroy itself without a solid minimum of 12 PSI of flow from the lift pump, too... and that is why a lot of people believed the "fuel removes heat" theory for so long. It's really not the heat, it's pressure waves breaking things.
Unfortunately the changes made don't completely fix the problem. But fed with an aftermarket lift pump like the AirDog or FASS, and not the original in-tank pump that loves to fail slowly by lowering pressure over time, setting off a chain reaction in the VP44... the newer rebuilds with the new components tend to last a long time.
If there's one takeaway it's not to go from wide open throttle to none instantly when towing heavy and hot, but we all know people cut anything towing a trailer off, constantly.
Mine went... exactly at that point. Had to let off the throttle towing heavy on a hot day, and it started surging at the end of the off ramp... the shaft was either bent or broken and all hell was tearing loose inside the VP44, literally. It made it another mile and a half until it stopped responding to throttle altogether, truck's computer set the CEL, and shut down.
Filtration, I agree... is fairly weak on these trucks. My AirDog includes an additional filter prior to the engine filter. The previous owner trusted the AirDog filter and water separator alone, the mechanic said "not a good idea" because the engine filter also includes the fuel electric pre-heater, so he put an engine filter back on it, so I'm "double filtered" now, and have two places to trap water, which doesn't bother me at all. A slug of crappy watery fuel from a rural diesel station, will have to get by both to kill injectors.
So... I say keep it. But be ready to put some money into it at a reputable shop that knows Dodge Cummins.
The auto trans can be a minor headache also, but sounds like you did the right things on the rebuild and it'll go a while. I know one local guy who's on his third auto trans, but also above 300,000 miles and tows a lot heavier than your 7500 lbs regularly.
Here's another reason not to jump too soon to the 6.7 engine... DEF. Regeneration. Annoying emissions system whining that it wants things. Heh.
If that were mine, I would easily go for another 100k miles. Air Dog or FASS system, like noted above. If you haven't done so, a front end rebuild is looming, most likely. I upgrade my '07 2500 4x4 to 3500 tie rods, drag links, etc.
I ran my '97 2500 4x4 to 228,000 miles and the young guy who bought it is still hauling his girlfriend's horses around the country. My wife conspired with my cousin to buy his '07 because the '97 clear coat started peeling and "it's embarrassing to ride in this now"
Good to hear your old beast is getting used! I still haven't met the new girl in your life. Haha.
I have a fender that the clear coat has started letting go on, and it's driving me nuts. The '01 will probably go in for a little paint work this year. I'm trying to decide how much of a country redneck I am... trucks out here often don't have paint on half the truck, and nobody minds. Heh.
Good info @denverpilot, thanks. Never sure what to do when one gets the itch. I agree buying a used truck is an unknown quantity, and to some extent so is a new one. As I said it appears the current one runs and drives well, so I think when I take it in for service this time I will have my mechanic go through it and give me an idea on what he thinks it needs as far as wear and tear goes. I did have a repaint in 2009, the body looks ok still but the clear coat is failing on the roof. Unfortunately it had to sit outside for most of the years I have had it, but for the last three years it has been indoors. I only used it on trips pulling a horse trailer or the fifth wheel in prior years but it has been my daily driver since I retired. I will probably wait for the next big repair and decide how much more to put in it at that time. Knowing my luck it'll happen on a trip, ha. That will make the wife happy. I feel like it is somewhat a known quantity, has been a good truck and another 100000 miles would be great!
denverpilot
Tied Down
I can say from experience that it's survivable. Haha. Three days camping in an RV park in Kearney, NE didn't kill us. Ha. The best reason to have a fifth wheel instead of a Class C or motorcoach -- we hung out at the RV campsite after one tow truck took the pickup to the shop and the other took the trailer to the campsite.
One cab ride to WalMart for some movies and provisions we hadn't picked up yet since it was the outbound leg of the trip (we pick a WalMart and stop on the way if we forgot any groceries or anything), and a couple of days watching movies. Wasn't awful. Ha. Had 50 Amp electric service and both A/C units ran full blast to keep up with summer heat and humidity. Quite comfortable!
Tarheelpilot
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The truck I bought had a bully dog gt tuner installed. I have flashed it back to stock and I'm removing the tuner. Anyone here interested in the tuner?
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
What did it come off of..?
Tarheelpilot
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6.7 Cummins but it has tunes for dodge chevy and ford. I think up to '16 model year. It's plugs into obd port and has a power cord that runs to fuse box.
If you're interested pm me and I'll give you the serial number so you can check compatibility with your vehicle.
If you're interested pm me and I'll give you the serial number so you can check compatibility with your vehicle.
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
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I didn't think about this earlier.....
Mods can this be moved to classified section. I just replied to the old thread without thinking about topic shift
Mods can this be moved to classified section. I just replied to the old thread without thinking about topic shift