New dude looking for advice

o3rugby1

Filing Flight Plan
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Dec 31, 2012
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Ed
Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. Im looking for advice on my private pilots lic. I live in central KY about 22 miles from lexington and 40 miles from louisville. Im a 41 year old professional firefighter with the 1 day on 2 day off scheduel. Got between 5-8 years to be able to retireer depending on the colleges my girls choose to get into. In a nutshell im wanting to get my private pilots lic. I love planes and enjoy flying. However i do not know the next step, theres pilot schools at both airports are promising the zero to hero deals which im not interested in. Should i seek out a independent instructor? I did join my local civil airpatrol in lexington to hopefully get to know some of the guys and lend a hand with some of my so called expertise on ems and emmergency managment stuff. This will at least get me around some aircraft and hopefully point me in the right direction. Im not looking for a career ive got one. Im just looking to fly. Thanks this is a great place to visit.
Ed
 
Welcome! I can't help but glad you decided to take the plunge. A number of firefighters are aviation enthusiasts and seem to enjoy it. Hope you do too!
 
Ed-

Welcome to PoA!

The one on, two off schedule should allow you to quickly and efficiently secure your ticket.

In general, you'll find that there are some flight schools which are large and uniform, and tend to have younger flight instructors. Others are smaller, less regimented (often less costly, as well), and f course, you may find an independent flight instructor who serves your needs well. You need to shop around, meet some folks and see whom you like.

In addition to all that, your CAP connections may well help you.

Perhaps we'll get a PoA member from your area to pop up...

...Happy New Year!
 
Welcome! I can't help but glad you decided to take the plunge. A number of firefighters are aviation enthusiasts and seem to enjoy it. Hope you do too!

Sure Wayne. Now pull the other leg since this one is long enough.

To the OP: just because a flight school offers a zero-to-hero course doesn't mean that's all they do. I'd suggest visiting the flight schools at two close airports. Tell them what you'd like to do (learn to fly on your schedule) and see what their response is. Keep the BS detector operating at max sensitivity. While you're there, take a look around the airport FBOs to see if any independent CFIs have posted availability on a bulletin board. Also ask around CAP about flight training.

After gathering info, evaluate for the best situation. Look for experienced instructors and aircraft availability. Airplanes have a habit of breaking and it's nice to have alternatives. Pay as you go is probably best since flight training operations have a nasty habit of collapsing and keeping your money.
 
Thanks guys. Ive looked into one flight school that has a "cesna" endorsement. It looks to be around 6-7k and you can pay as you go. And keep them coming any and all advice is welcome.
 
Don't put a chunk of money on account at a flight school and you don't need flight bags and gadgets. You might want to buy a headset, but that is all. Oh and if the folks you are training with suck, go elsewhere. If you have any questionable medical care(depression meds, DUIs, stuff like that) ask before applying for the medical(needed to solo.)
Go fly.
 
Good luck check out the schools interview them and see who makes you feel comfortable see if there is a local club as well
 
Especially for someone at your level of maturity (and this is a compliment), I think the key to success for you will be the relationship you form with your CFI. Take the time to interview several instructors and find one with whom you are comfortable. My guess is that professionalism will matter to you.
 
My advice is to find a grass field with a family run flight school. I'll ask around and see what I can find for you


-VanDy
 
I did all my training @ LEX for somewhere around 4K to 5K in a 152. There is a great flying club in Lexington and I have also heard that NexGen in Lexington is pretty good. NexGen is much more competievly priced than other flight schools @ LEX or LOU. PM me if you would like more details.
 
There are a few of us in Kentucky...

Ed,

Welcome. I live in NE Ky. It is a very expensive hobby, so you will want the family on board too. Ask for a CFI's last few students to get referrals from, go with a well maintained fleet of two or more aircraft and get your medical out of the way as soon as possible. Visit Sporty's at Clermont Co Aprt(I69) East of Cincinnati for supplies/training materials. Don't start the engine until you and your CFI are ready to taxi and ask if touch-n-go's are used when a CFI is on board. Otherwise a good milking of the Hobbs meter and your wallet will occur while talking or taxiing. Know what to study before the next lesson. Fly at least twice per week during training. Have at least $1000/month excess to spend on this hobby. Once finished with training, whether renting or owning, you can easily spend that if you want to travel outside of the local area. You can get by on around $200/month just to stay current in the local area, but you will probably get bored with that real quick. Plan on another $600-$800/yr for
renter's insurance policy before you solo. It is so great to hop in our plane, fly 4.5 hours and be in Sebring, Florida. Sure beats 16-18 hours on I-64 & I-75. Same mileage as our Ford Exp...15 mpg @ 185 mph. There is no end to how much you can learn. Get up there and fly near and above those puffy clouds, what a view. Have fun and be safe.
 
Glad you made it out of the shadows Ed. Welcome to POA.

You may be able to deduct some of the training on your income taxes. You can fly aerial missions for damage assessment, grass fire assessment, search and rescue spotter, ect. Talk to an accountant. ;)
 
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Welcome, Ed. You have some good responses so far. It sounds like your location might put you close to Capital City. You might check into rentals and instructors there. By training at a smaller airport, you will save a lot of taxi and holding time, and rates might be lower anyway.

I am a doctor who decided in 1999 to learn to fly. I was 39 at the time. There was an older CFI/corporate pilot that attended our church at the time. (He had taken me on introductory flight several years before). I gave him my pager number and told him my afternoon off. We would fly once or twice per week until the solo stage, and then a bit less often. I started the last day of Feb and got my license in August. It sounds like your time is more plentiful than that, so you might progress more quickly.

I know nothing about the formal flight schools other than what I read on these boards. I would be very wary of paying up front, as a lot of people abandon it not too far into it. Also, it sounds like a lot of people become disenchanted with their school/instructor along the way.

For me, I enjoyed learning from someone who actually had some real world flight experience, and not from some young beginner who had never actually left the pattern environment.

Wells
 
Should i seek out a independent instructor?
That's certainly an option, but the logistics can be tricky for primary training that way unless you own or have access to a plane to use for the training. The instructor's availability may be spotty, and if the instructor is providing the plane, there may be scheduling conflicts with the instructor's other students. Unless you have your own plane, training with an organized flight flight school may be a better option, at least initially.
 
Most flight schools offer a "Discovery flight" at a discounted rate. I recommend that you narrow your search to 3-4 schools in your area and take a discovery flight from each one. Start with an interview by the chief instructor and explain to them your schedule, financial limitations, goals, and as best as you can your learning style. Ask them which of their instructors would be a good fit for you and have them explain how they made this selection.

In addition to the instructors, check out the available fleet. You should try not to be impressed by how new and well equipped the planes are but rather whether or not everything on them works properly and that they are in good shape mechanically. A big plus is a school that has 2 or more trainers of the same type and equipment so your training won't go on hold whenever one plane is unavailable for maintenance etc.
 
Take an experienced pilot along with you on the discovery flight to check out any maintenance issues with aircraft. Also understand that a pretty paint job does not mean a well maintained aircraft. Alot of good info above to get you started. Message me if I can help.
 
Welcome, I will recommend what a few others have recommended. Go visit the schools you are considering and talk to them about your options. Once you decide which one of those schools fits your needs, go ahead and take a discovery flight. The discovery flight will be all that you need to decide whether or not its for you. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Ed, At 47 I finally decided to get my PPL. I had tried once or twice before and found it difficult to manage timing of the plane, timing of the instructor, money to pay for it, and of course my own time motivation to fight with all the other factors mentioned.

So this time I went out and bought a four seat trainer airplane to learn in figuring I could save the $8.5k paid to a flight school for the same PPL and apply it towards a $20k basic aircraft that I would still own and be able to use after I got my PPL.

It worked out really really well for me. Although you hear of horror stories the cost of maintaining a trainer is about the same as having a Japanese sports car. My son's Honda S2000 cost almost exactly the same maintenance and upkeep as my Cherokee did. Maintenance worked out to only $10 per hour flown.

It uses auto gas 8 gph at the time gas was $1.60 today you would double that price.

Hiring a CFI was no big deal for me as I just ran a $28 add in the newspaper for a CFI and got a dozen replies. I met three and hired the third guy without meeting the rest. I think I paid him $12 per hour which was what the flight schools pay their cfi's around here although they charge you $50.

I borrowed the King PPL video tapes from a friend and watched them for my ground school knowledge and my CFI was happy with my progress. I never had to pay my CFI for ground school as I was always up on the things he felt I should know(learned from watching the videos). Kings have a dry sense of humor but they do not miss anything and you will get what you need for grounds school. I highly recommend them. Today they sell DVD's. I think I would check it out from a library before I would pay $199 they ask for it today.

If you don't see yourself owing an airplane outright you might look into one of three other options which will all be cheaper than a flight school and paying rent.

First is a partnership where you can own 1/4 of a trainer. This could be as little as $5k in todays market and 1/4 of hangar, maintenance and insurance plus you pay your own fuel. Second is a club where up to 10 people per airplane join a club and pay monthly dues for the rights to rent at a discounted rate a group of airplanes. Some clubs are single aircraft and others have many aircraft to choose from. Third is a NEP non equity partnership. Due to the economy many people who own an airplane may not have the funds to fly it like they did in years past so they may elect to allow others to fly it in exchange for their helping with the ownership expenses. When I bought my 2nd airplane I wasn't ready to sell my first Cherokee so I allowed 3 guys to fly it in exchange for their paying the ownership costs such as hangar rent, insurance, maintenance plus their own gas. They had full ownership privileged for a fraction of the cost and now out of pocket money to purchase an a/c.

All three of these options allow you to fly and learn about ownership costs before you actually buy an airplane on your own. It is a great place to start.
 
I did my private pilot with a local CFI and his Cessna. I'm also doing my instrument rating with a local CFII. There aren't any flight schools around here that would accommodate my day job. I bought the King kit and studied on my own.
 
I would also recommend checking around to see if there are any good flying clubs near you. It was the perfect solution for me...it was a great club with great rates, airplanes and CFIs. Good luck
 
If you're pretty sure you are serious, invest $5 in a pilot's logbook (Amazon sells them, as do pilot shops all over the Internet, and the FBO in most small airports will too). All your discovery flights and such are loggable hours of dual instruction received. While the trend is to end up needing 10-20 hours more than the mandated 40 hour minimum, every tenth of an hour helps. There's no reason not to get logbook credit for your discovery flights and other CFI auditions.
 
Welcome new guy... former paramedic and FF here. I'm not actively flying, but I follow things on here.

There's a lot of focus on finding the right instructor/environment and that is important. But that is half the battle.

You have a lot of things working in your favor already - your work schedule gives you time to fly several times a week, which is good - the more frequently you fly the quicker you will attain proficiency and the less money you will spend getting the license. If you fly once a week or less you will spend much time re-learning the pyschomotor skills associated with flying the plane, rather than progressing.

While I may be stereotyping, I see public safety professionals as not easily excited/panicked, generally exhibiting good judgement, able to navigate (read maps) and comfortable talking on the radio.... all things that may take more time with folks without that background.

The cockpit is a terrible classroom for theory - its noisy, its cramped and its expensive. During your downtime at work (and on days off) you can stick your head in books that will prepare you for the theory/knowledge side of things.

There are several texts I recommend based on my experience over 12 years ago in getting my ticket.

Textbooks by Kirchner for the private, instrument and advanced/commercial http://www.kershnerflightmanuals.com/. You can buy them other places besides that link. The latter two are overkill for a minimal level of proficiency for the Private Pilots license. I feel these are very well written texts and recommend them without reservation.

Gleim test manuals - this is a test bank database/book. These are the types of questions/exercises that the computerized knowledge test will encompass. Some people memorize the test bank - I'm not that kind of guy, I recommend understanding the rationales behind the answers.

Jeppesen textbooks are nice, very well written and somewhat pricey. I'm not sure there is much value added over the Kershner books but there is nothing wrong with them at all.

While it is not necessary to attend a formal ground school, it is essential to learn the material, and self teaching is acceptable for most of the information involved. When you choose an instructor validate the book info with them and apply it to the act of flying the plane.

The FAA requires 40 hours to be able to get your private pilot. I've heard average numbers thrown around of it being 60-70 hours before getting an endorsement to take the practical test. I solo'd at 17 hours (very late compared to average) I was endorsed at 42 hours and passed by the end of 44 hours (very early compared to average) - I'm not bragging, but using that to bookend the following:

I completed ALL the ground schooling on my own and took my written test before I ever took my first lesson (I had some intro flights from a pilot family member but nothing loggable). This is atypical for many many students, many do it in parralel with flight training or in a batch right before solo. I read and understood the curriculum completely, knew how to read the map and what the symbols meant, how to get and interpret weather information, etc.

I had actually started reading the instrument text because of the in depth information it gave on navigational systems. That is overkill but thats how I roll. I suspect in your job, a fireman may be expected to perform as an engineer, and an engineer may be expected to perform as a company officer when needed. Knowing the next step in the knowledge chain never hurts.

Fly 2-3 times a week. You will spend less on training in the long run. Plan on an hour of flight time and a 2 hour block of time at the airport.

Buy a local "sectional" chart and green AFD book and teach yourself to understand what the information in them means. Get a cheap cardboard E6-B whiz wheel.... its a circular slide rule that helps do time/distance/fuel use calculations and also to calculate crosswind components. All of these items can be obtained in the form of Apps or subscriptions for your handheld smartphone, but that can come later. Learn fundamentals using tools that dont rely on batteries, and move up to gee-whiz devices later.

You dont need a $1000 headset, but give some thought to a step or two above bare bones bargain basement. Noise fatigue is real. I started with some cheap bottom shelf av-comms, then added gel seals for comfort, then later added my own do-it-yourself noise cancelling inserts. If you decide you are going to continue past your first few lessons, a comfortable noise cancelling headset is a sound investment. The cheapo you start with makes a good guest-headset when you graduate to carrying passengers.
 
If you decide you are going to continue past your first few lessons, a comfortable noise cancelling headset is a sound investment.

Dude, that's a terrible pun. :)

About buying a headset, don't do it by mail order. The most important issue is how it feels on your head. Walk into a shop and try them on. Some of the highly rated ones are not at all comfy (David Clark, this means you) without significant modifications.

But, many flight schools will let you borrow a headset for a lesson. Do this until solo, if it's feasible. Or until you run into a problem with them not being there when you need them (e.g., nice summer days).
 
Hey this is a really nice write-up. I am also going to get the ground school part on my own and pass the ground tests first before taking the 1st flight lesson. I think in my situation this is the only way to work based on the variables. Nice to know someone had done the same as well.



Welcome new guy... former paramedic and FF here. I'm not actively flying, but I follow things on here.

There's a lot of focus on finding the right instructor/environment and that is important. But that is half the battle.

You have a lot of things working in your favor already - your work schedule gives you time to fly several times a week, which is good - the more frequently you fly the quicker you will attain proficiency and the less money you will spend getting the license. If you fly once a week or less you will spend much time re-learning the pyschomotor skills associated with flying the plane, rather than progressing.

While I may be stereotyping, I see public safety professionals as not easily excited/panicked, generally exhibiting good judgement, able to navigate (read maps) and comfortable talking on the radio.... all things that may take more time with folks without that background.

The cockpit is a terrible classroom for theory - its noisy, its cramped and its expensive. During your downtime at work (and on days off) you can stick your head in books that will prepare you for the theory/knowledge side of things.

There are several texts I recommend based on my experience over 12 years ago in getting my ticket.

Textbooks by Kirchner for the private, instrument and advanced/commercial http://www.kershnerflightmanuals.com/. You can buy them other places besides that link. The latter two are overkill for a minimal level of proficiency for the Private Pilots license. I feel these are very well written texts and recommend them without reservation.

Gleim test manuals - this is a test bank database/book. These are the types of questions/exercises that the computerized knowledge test will encompass. Some people memorize the test bank - I'm not that kind of guy, I recommend understanding the rationales behind the answers.

Jeppesen textbooks are nice, very well written and somewhat pricey. I'm not sure there is much value added over the Kershner books but there is nothing wrong with them at all.

While it is not necessary to attend a formal ground school, it is essential to learn the material, and self teaching is acceptable for most of the information involved. When you choose an instructor validate the book info with them and apply it to the act of flying the plane.

The FAA requires 40 hours to be able to get your private pilot. I've heard average numbers thrown around of it being 60-70 hours before getting an endorsement to take the practical test. I solo'd at 17 hours (very late compared to average) I was endorsed at 42 hours and passed by the end of 44 hours (very early compared to average) - I'm not bragging, but using that to bookend the following:

I completed ALL the ground schooling on my own and took my written test before I ever took my first lesson (I had some intro flights from a pilot family member but nothing loggable). This is atypical for many many students, many do it in parralel with flight training or in a batch right before solo. I read and understood the curriculum completely, knew how to read the map and what the symbols meant, how to get and interpret weather information, etc.

I had actually started reading the instrument text because of the in depth information it gave on navigational systems. That is overkill but thats how I roll. I suspect in your job, a fireman may be expected to perform as an engineer, and an engineer may be expected to perform as a company officer when needed. Knowing the next step in the knowledge chain never hurts.

Fly 2-3 times a week. You will spend less on training in the long run. Plan on an hour of flight time and a 2 hour block of time at the airport.

Buy a local "sectional" chart and green AFD book and teach yourself to understand what the information in them means. Get a cheap cardboard E6-B whiz wheel.... its a circular slide rule that helps do time/distance/fuel use calculations and also to calculate crosswind components. All of these items can be obtained in the form of Apps or subscriptions for your handheld smartphone, but that can come later. Learn fundamentals using tools that dont rely on batteries, and move up to gee-whiz devices later.

You dont need a $1000 headset, but give some thought to a step or two above bare bones bargain basement. Noise fatigue is real. I started with some cheap bottom shelf av-comms, then added gel seals for comfort, then later added my own do-it-yourself noise cancelling inserts. If you decide you are going to continue past your first few lessons, a comfortable noise cancelling headset is a sound investment. The cheapo you start with makes a good guest-headset when you graduate to carrying passengers.
 
I solo'd at 17 hours (very late compared to average)

Don't get hung-up on time to solo. It depends on the syllabus as much as the student so it may not even be in the program until 15 hours.

You dont need a $1000 headset, but give some thought to a step or two above bare bones bargain basement. Noise fatigue is real. I started with some cheap bottom shelf av-comms, then added gel seals for comfort, then later added my own do-it-yourself noise cancelling inserts. If you decide you are going to continue past your first few lessons, a comfortable noise cancelling headset is a sound investment. The cheapo you start with makes a good guest-headset when you graduate to carrying passengers.

Look at noise reduction rating when buying the first headset. The gel seals help on comfort. Try before buying because everybody's head is shaped different.
 
Don't get hung-up on time to solo. It depends on the syllabus as much as the student so it may not even be in the program until 15 hours.

Exactly my point.... in my case it was a matter of getting the "flare" down during landing... one day it just "clicked" and that was it.
 
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