New City, New Mechanic - No lesson learned yet

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NoLessonLearnedYet

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I'm a long time member on this forum but I don't want to publicly throw anyone under the bus so I'm staying anonymous. I have not yet learned a lesson but would like to avoid learning it if at all possible, if one of you already did learn it. Long story short: I lived in the same place for many years and pretty much throughout my ownership of my current airplane and previous airplane. I have worked with the same A&P/IA for all those years and trust him blindly. I never had any major issues with my planes and I contribute this to good preventive maintenance. At the same time, my previous A&P also stressed to not fix what ain't broken just for the sake of changing things. If something looks like it is failing, we change it. If something failed, we definitely change it. Everything he recommended, he was able to back up, show to me, point out what it is, present my options, give his recommendation among those options and then let me pick.

Fast forward: I moved across the country and as I'm getting closer to my first annual inspection away from my previous home airport, due in 5 months, I started talking with the only A&P/IA at the new airport I'm based at just to look over logbooks, ADs, do an oil change, a short flight together, etc. Here is my experience thus far:

Oil Change: He changed my oil, cut open the spin-on oil filter, we both looked through it and noted no metal. He asked me about oil burn, I told him about a quart every 8 hours and he said good. He then asked me how often I change the oil and I say every 50 hours or six months whichever comes first (usually, it's the six months and about 35ish hours, last oil change was 50 hours at 5 months though that's not the norm) which was also my previous A&P's recommendation. I am on the Phillips Victory Aviation Oil 20W-50. The new A&P then said that he'd recommend to change the oil and filter every 25 hours. I asked him for his reasoning and he said that the engine is getting old (about 1,200 hours SMOH with a 2,000 TBO) so new oil every 25 hours is better.

Magnetos: During our short flight together, as I always do, I did a magneto check during run up. One magneto dropped by just under 150 rpm, the other by just over 100 rpm. My POH says mag drop no more than 175 rpm and no more than 50 rpm difference between the two. After the mag check, he asked how many hours I have on the magnetos. I told him just under 400 hours. He said we would have to get them done next annual. I told him that I was planning on doing them at next year's annual (which would take me to just under 500 hours on the mags) unless I notice anything abnormal before that. He said, that it's abnormal for one of the mags to drop the rpm by nearly 150. I told him that the POH says up to 175 is fine as long as the difference between the two is less than 50 and his comment was that the POH was wrong in that regard, 150 is the absolute max and I'm right at it.

Muffler: The plane is parked on the ramp outside (not by choice - hangar shortage). The other day, he told me he saw the plane and took a peek inside the cowling, noticing a crack in the muffler that we have to fix at the annual. I asked why he'd look into my cowling without me present or prompted in the first place and he said because I asked him a question about my engine and he wanted to confirm something before answering (I asked him a question thinking he could answer based on simply knowing that engine type - not specifically about MY engine). I went to the airport that same day (I live just around the corner) to look at the muffler as well and could not find a crack anywhere. I called him asking where the crack was and he said it's impossible to see with the naked eye - he just saw it because he has very good vision, almost microscopic vision when it comes to airplanes. I said that if there is a crack, I should see some sort of discoloration on the muffler where the gasses escape and he said the crack isn't bad enough for gasses to escape yet but we shouldn't wait to fix this until that happens and then went on to talk about me flying the plane with family and CO poisoning, etc. which I get, I simply don't see the crack and he can't point it out to me because according to him, my mere mortal eyes wouldn't be able to see it.

I'm not crazy for being cautious with that A&P, right? I mean, the oil change interval is an opinion - some may share it, some may not. It didn't raise a red flag, it just showed two different opinions. The magnetos raised a bit of a yellow flag, maybe even orange flag. But the muffler conversation was just weird and raised a double red flag for me. What are you thinking?
 
re: mag drop, has it changed recently, or has it always been like that? If something changed, I'd be more inclined to send them out a year early. If they've always been like that, maybe see what happens after the annual. After my annual this year, my mag drops went close to zero, almost suspiciously so!

re: muffler, ask to see what he's talking about. More people than you think take the liberty to open up other people's planes on the ramp; be glad it was a mechanic. I'd just chock chalk it up to the guy being proactive, sounds like a feature and not a bug.

Oil change interval / 150 vs 175, not worth quibbling over... in my experience, they'll likely eff up or omit something bigger than that anyway ;)
#a&psbelike
 
If/when we move, unless I get amazing vibes from an IA that's local, I will be bringing the plane back here for annuals.
 
re: muffler, ask to see what he's talking about. More people than you think take the liberty to open up other people's planes on the ramp; be glad it was a mechanic. I'd just chock chalk it up to the guy being proactive, sounds like a feature and not a bug.
Just because it happens more often than I like doesn't mean I'm not salty about it even if it was a mechanic. I feel guilty looking inside someone's plane when mines at the shop for annual.
 
That’s unacceptable. And the micro-vision is BS. You’re being set up for “I know what’s best and you need xyz” once the plane is apart. Run. I ain’t kidding. Trust your senses. I’d go so far as to worry about him messing with my plane when I’m not around.
 
Start asking here and in the other sites you go to for who's the best mechanic in your area or close enough that you could fly to and maybe find someone else that goes there too to swap out rides. Eventually the top people will be repeated over and over, as well as the bad ones. The guy you're going to may be fine, but there may be better options out there.

And you don't have to name the mechanic, but where in the country are you now?
 
re: mag drop, has it changed recently, or has it always been like that?

Nope, been like this ever since I bought the plane 3 years ago.

If/when we move, unless I get amazing vibes from an IA that's local, I will be bringing the plane back here for annuals.

I'm considering it. Or flying my mechanic in from where I used to live. Having said that, when I say I moved across the country, I mean it. In my bug smasher, it's a 10 hour flight.

You’re being set up for “I know what’s best and you need xyz” once the plane is apart.

That's what I'm worried about. I never came across a mechanic like that but heard stories. Mechanics doing work they're not supposed to. "Finding" stuff all the time. My previous mechanic always wanted me to be in the hangar with him during annuals. His reasoning - it's my plane and I need to know every detail of it. He would almost scold me if I asked him to do an oil change because he kept saying I need to do those things myself so I know how to do it if I ever get stranded at an airport with no one around. I haven't asked the new guy yet if I can be around during the annual inspection. I guess that'll be my next clue. If I ask him and he says "no", I will 100% run. If he's cool with it - maybe I'll take one red flag away?

I’d go so far as to worry about him messing with my plane when I’m not around.

That also crossed my mind. I have an LTE security camera on the plane when it's parked outside which it currently is unfortunately. It's not 360 vision but I guess better than nothing. I placed it on the hat rack so I see the front and both sides.

Start asking here and in the other sites you go to for who's the best mechanic in your area or close enough that you could fly to and maybe find someone else that goes there too to swap out rides. Eventually the top people will be repeated over and over, as well as the bad ones. The guy you're going to may be fine, but there may be better options out there.

And you don't have to name the mechanic, but where in the country are you now?

If I say where I am, most of you will know who I am and chances are the new mechanic will hear about it or may be even known to some - and then the whole point of posting this anonymously will be pointless. There are other mechanics around though, I know that - just not at the airport. The others are like a short flight away. I assume some may even drive to the airport (for extra $$$ obviously). I was just thrilled there is a mechanic on the field as that makes things a lot easier usually.
 
One piece of advice is to at least maintain cordial relations with the on-field A&P even if you choose to go elsewhere for the annual. It’s useful to have someone you can turn to in a pinch when small stuff breaks, without having to fly someone in or get a ferry permit.
 
:yeahthat:

Mechanics doing work they're not supposed to. "Finding" stuff all the time.

I think there are degrees. I'd prefer my mechanic to find legitimately wrong stuff than to overlook it.

There are other mechanics around though, I know that - just not at the airport. The others are like a short flight away. I assume some may even drive to the airport (for extra $$$ obviously). I was just thrilled there is a mechanic on the field as that makes things a lot easier usually.

I've gotten annuals from 5 shops. One place, I went to twice. One shop is on the field. A couple of them were an hour away. They all have their strengths and weaknesses; differently-abled, I guess you'd call it.
 
Mag drops that do not change are the result of slightly different advance settings. These differences are difficult to prevent. I have helped set mag advance, and know well how many times the advance drifts a bit when torqueing the fasteners.

Your security camera is a good idea, but avoiding developing a contentious relationship with the local man is vital for when there is a problem that makes you non airworthy (In your opinion) and need him to jump you to the front of his line.

There are some hints that his line of waiting customers may be short. Or his cost of living has gone up, and his customers are flying less. He may be quite good, although I agree xray vision is unlikely, and cracks do stain from the slightest leakage .
 
Completely agree with @AlleyCat67 with respect to maintaining cordial relations with the on-field mechanic, irrespective of whether he actually becomes the primary mechanic for your plane. You never know when he may be the only person who can come to your rescue on short notice.

That said, this is a situation in which I really like Mike Busch's "Owner-in-charge" philosophy, rather than being a passenger for maintenance. It's your airplane, your responsibility, and ultimately your money. If you do decide to go to this guy for your annual, I would be absolutely sure to state (in writing!) that the inspection should be done, and then a list of written discrepancies provided to you, clearly delineating between airworthiness items and non-airworthiness items. Nothing gets done without your written approval. I would be very concerned about an "inspect a little, fix a little" situation resulting in a very expensive annual, or the mechanic refusing to sign off your aircraft.

I like evidence, rather than anecdote, when it comes to spending maintenance dollars. I have no issue on spending dollars on good preventative maintenance, but the "x-ray vision" comment would strain my relationship with that guy. If it's visible to you, then there had better be a way to make it visible to me. The oil and magneto thing smacks of being excessively conservative with someone else's money. 50 hours or 4-6 months is standard with modern oils for everything except the antiques/classics with no spin-on filter. If you have a reasonable burn rate (and you do) and you're not seeing anything weird on your oil analysis (which I recommend) or filter examination, I think the 25 hour thing is pure BS. The magneto thing is a judgement call. They're within limits and you have two of them for a reason, so flying to 500 hours (potentially risking a failure on one of them) isn't unreasonable. It also wouldn't be unreasonable to do an IRAN on them at next annual, but that should be YOUR call, not his.

My view is that my mechanic is a subject matter expert and trusted advisor, and I'll listen carefully to what he tells me. But I make the decisions and it's not a negotiation. I respect needing to protect their ticket, so worst case (and it has never come anywhere close to this), they can sign off on whatever work they did or the inspection "with discrepancies" and I'll figure it out from there.
 
I agree with him on the 25hr oil changes over 50hr intervals on a higher time engine. Oil is cheap. Also, unless I missed it, you haven’t said how much calendar time are on the mags, which might be prompting him to get them done sooner.

I don’t have much of an issue with everything else you’ve claimed he said, except the crack in the exhaust. If he can’t definitively show it to you, I’d be suspect.
 
I agree with him on the 25hr oil changes over 50hr intervals on a higher time engine. Oil is cheap. Also, unless I missed it, you haven’t said how much calendar time are on the mags, which might be prompting him to get them done sooner.

I don’t have much of an issue with everything else you’ve claimed he said, except the crack in the exhaust. If he can’t definitively show it to you, I’d be suspect.
By that logic, why not an oil change after every flight? If 25 hours is good, 20 hours is better, right?

Wash, rinse, repeat.
 
….
If I say where I am, most of you will know who I am and chances are the new mechanic will hear about it or may be even known to some…
Are you afraid of/fear this A&P if he found out you asked for references?

To borrow someone else’s phrase, you need to be interviewing the people you hire to work on and inspect your plane. It doesn’t have to be confrontational, but two questions may be informative.

1. Can you provide references for other owners with my airplane type you support?
2. How do you feel about owner assisted annuals?
 
The first IA working on my airplane (pa-28-140) was a semi-retired guy that encouraged owner-assisted maintenance. He had worked on a friend's 140 for years. Eventually he had a medical issues and I needed to find another place for my annual. Fortunately, at KBED Executive Flyers' Matt Goulian let me do owner-assisted. But the next year he stopped working there (I suspect I know why, but don't want to share it... but it has NOTHING to do with his abilities as an IA).

They hired an IA to replace Matt. Unfortunately this guy didn't do owner-assisted. ok, fine. for the first time I just turn it over without me working on it too. Later I found that the IA had a local reputation... as "Dr Death"... seems the guy didn't know when to stop writing items that "needed further investigation". He also had this little scam where every single year he would replace the fuel cap gasket. Every. Time. I eventually had them put the airplane back together as is, give me the write up of all the BS squawks, give me the bill for the "work" and put it back on my tie-down (it only took that <expletive deleted> 6 months to do that.

So, yeah, sometimes the IA is an <expletive deleted>.

I hope you can find a good IA to work with.
 
I help out with friends work sometimes, it’s fun and when lucky gets me some stick time, not a A nor P but I’m pretty mechanical

The oil change, that’s a new one, the only time I hear of changing less than 50hrs, or 25 without a spin on, is when breaking in, or if you’re operating hard or odd places and the oil is getting black very fast, or if you’re going to have a long journey on the next flight, 1200 of 2000 isn’t really “old”, ok little overboard but ok

The mags, maybe he’s preparing you for the worst, there are things he could first check before you drop cash like that, maybe he just doesn’t want you to be shocked worse case, I wouldn’t let him just blindly remove and replace mags, but I wouldn’t walk just yet

The muffler, there is no way I can make that work in my head.
I probably would have laughed and joked if he’d been day drinking, he didn’t even have the cowl off when he spotted this micro crack from a passing glance outside on the ramp?

Unless he was just joking around with you, some seasoned mechanics have a dry sense of humor, or you somehow misunderstood what he said, that one is just too hard to walk back, I would keep mechanic shopping
 
I live at an airpark. No one here would accept an A&P who won’t go along with an owner being completely hands-on. It’s basically bringing someone into our home, but no one’s ever had an issue.

I have our annual done during winter, but am keeping it at 12 months. A 13 month annual will eventually put us into working on it in the Florida summer for too many years in a row.
 
It sounds like a good thing that your doing an interview. I think this would eliminate many of the stories were read about on here.

From the information provided, I would be leery but would not dismiss the guy.

If he makes a recommendation outside of approved data, get him to prove why. Maybe he has good examples, or maybe he is just talking out his ass.

AMM limits are there for a reason be cautious when someone decides those limits are not good enough.
 
Agreed on the "don't burn bridges". Not just because he's the only mechanic on the field, but he hasn't done anything wrong really.

Through their own experience, each mechanic (or pilot for that matter) has their own things they will focus or push back on. I'd rather have a mech tell me "manual be damned, your mags shouldn't be dropping that much" than an A&P who pencil whips and says "meh whatever, it's within limits".

Not saying that's what your old mech did, btw. But sometimes their experience has led them to scrutinize some things more than others. I don't think that's a bad thing, per se.

Re:muffler... It is odd but personally I wouldn't mind them taking a peek if it's on the ramp. As long as he/she can justify why they're recommending certain actions and it adds up in your mind, that's what counts. They're not saying you have to do it right now - but that it could be time at annual. You can always ask him at annual to show you where exactly the crack is.

Now -- if you personally think he's a slippery character in general -- that's something different. Trust your gut on that.
 
The muffler thing smells funny to me but maybe he is right, I would want him to show me the area in question. If not cracked keep an eye on it.
I would not change my oil every 25hr without some type of oil analysis with TBN, TAN, etc. Changing when not needed serves no purpose and wastes money.
 
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I guess I'd have to see how the conversation goes, but I would be looking at getting the mags done a year "early" vs pushing them to the limit. A mag going bad grounds you, I'd rather have them IRAN one or both of them a year early vs pushing it.

Other MX I'm Ok deferring on condition, but worth looking at.

On the muffler, I would just ask him to show you when you guys have it in the shop.
 
Muffler: The plane is parked on the ramp outside (not by choice - hangar shortage). The other day, he told me he saw the plane and took a peek inside the cowling, noticing a crack in the muffler that we have to fix at the annual. I asked why he'd look into my cowling without me present or prompted in the first place and he said because I asked him a question about my engine and he wanted to confirm something before answering (I asked him a question thinking he could answer based on simply knowing that engine type - not specifically about MY engine).
Regardless of everything else, if he pulled this stunt on my airplane he'd definitely be off of my Christmas list. If he actually opened the cowling without discussing it with me beforehand, he'd be written out of my will.
 
I agree with him on the 25hr oil changes over 50hr intervals on a higher time engine. Oil is cheap. Also, unless I missed it, you haven’t said how much calendar time are on the mags, which might be prompting him to get them done sooner.

I don’t have much of an issue with everything else you’ve claimed he said, except the crack in the exhaust. If he can’t definitively show it to you, I’d be suspect.
Maybe he heard the crack in the exhaust as you were taxing or taking off?
 
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If I were the OP I would remove the cowl and check out the entire exhaust before next flight.
It would help if we knew what airframe we are talking about.
 
Claiming “I can see it but you can’t?”
Are you really asking or just verifying you need a different A&P
 
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