NEW APPAREO Stratus ESG Pricing announced today..

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Indiana_Pilot, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. GLMS_NC

    GLMS_NC Line Up and Wait

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    Joke of a price if u have waas gps today. Total ripoff. There are much cheaper solutions.

    If u need a waas gps and have an old junky transponder, this is for you.
     
  2. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You don't need an ES do you? I thought just a GDL88 + any garmin transponder would work? That gives you 978 out, 1090 and 978 in. So for example a GTX327 + GDL88 would work right?
     
  3. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If all you need is 978 out then that will work. If you need ES (FL180 or above) then you need ES...
     
  4. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    They told me they expected it to be no more than $5000 installed but are estimating 1000-1500 for the install.. I would love to just get a Garmin 430W and some other ads-b out solution but I cannot find a 430w for under 7k installed... Then there is the Aspen Evolution I would love to have... Uggh


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  5. BGF_Yankee

    BGF_Yankee Line Up and Wait

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    You, like I my friend, simply have to remember that it's a marathon and not a sprint. Would it be cheaper in the long run to do everything all at the same time? Probably. But if you break it up into smaller parts, it becomes manageable for the vast majority of us. Don't stop looking and asking for quotes though. You never know when you'll find the deal that you've been looking for.
     
  6. simtech

    simtech En-Route

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    That's what I was hoping for. When the avionics shop told me 2 to 2500 for install that really turned me off to it.
     
  7. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Or if you fly international (Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, further...). 978/UAT is a U.S. thing.
     
  8. John Collins

    John Collins Pattern Altitude

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    So did NavCanada change their mind and now require ADS-B Out? They have announced that it is optional, even where they currently use it at FL290 and above over the Hudson Bay area. My Bonanza won't make it that high and even if it could, the only downside is my routings might not be direct. The Bahamas? :goofy:

    So far and in the foreseeable future, the 1090 international argument is a canard, at least in this hemisphere. Flight at and above 18000 MSL is the main criteria for 1090ES.
     
  9. simtech

    simtech En-Route

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    Got an email today saying the price has dropped to $2995. And they are preparing for the final faa flight test.
     
  10. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    I think international use such as Mexico, Canada, and Bahamas will adopt 978 UAT.. If not then they will lose the airport traffic from smaller aircraft that frequent them now that equip with 978... I doubt they will want to lose that


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  11. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    I am looking at the Stratus ESG as the best option for me. I still plan to use my RPi Stratux and tablet for ADSB in. I will keep looking and hopefully there will be some competition in the replacement transponder with ADSB out units to bring the price down. Not all of us want glass panels fully integrated to everything including the coffee pot.
     
  12. somorris

    somorris Pattern Altitude

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    The Status ESG was deliberately designed to fit in about the space of the legacy transponders, and it will be able to use our existing transponder antenna. With a Stratus II and iPad with ForeFlight, you will have full ADS-B In capability, and get traffic, weather, etc. I was told installation in the $1,000 to $1,500 range. That would be $4,000 to $4,500 if you already are using a Stratus II, iPad and ForeFlight. Not bad for a new transponder AND ADS-B.
     
  13. airdale

    airdale Pattern Altitude

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    Actually, I think this is going to be a very interesting show from a marketing/pricing/management point of view. So far, it looks like:

    • Once the fleet is upgraded, estimate sometime around 1/1/2021, demand for these boxes goes essentially to zero.
    • Vendors who do not have other product lines that are a continuing business are going to be gone, as will support for their products.
    • Avionics shops will become increasingly busy as the deadline approaches, but few will add capacity because it will be excess after the fleet is upgraded.

    So it seems like:

    • It is unlikely that we will see cost-reduced, second-generation, boxes. There is simply not enough time to recover a second round of design investments.
    • Manufacturers will become capacity-limited, will not be willing or will not be able to add capacity, and most will feel no need to cut prices.
    • Avionics shops will have no motivation to cut prices and installation lead times will increasingly become an issue.
    • Marginal and dying vendors, OTOH, will be price cutting as necessary to keep product moving.

    So ... my guess is that prices will be two-tiered. Tier 1 will be the premium-priced Garmins, Appareos, etc. who will survive the shakeout and be there to support their products. Tier 1 pricing could easily rise as the deadline approaches, assuming the vendors stay sold out. Tier 2 will be the increasingly desperate vendors who have no other business to support themselves and, as the market recognizes who they are, will have to discount to protect share.
     
  14. somorris

    somorris Pattern Altitude

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    I think there will still be some demand after 2021. A lot of aircraft that are out in the boondocks won't get ADS-B. When the plane is sold or the owner decides he/she needs to fly in controlled airspace, they will need to buy and install the equipment. There will almost certainly be a shakeout of vendors, but the stronger ones will still be in the game.
     
  15. airdale

    airdale Pattern Altitude

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    Sure, but that is a dribble. I'll stick with "essentially zero" for the second year after the mandate deadline. Definitely not enough to support the number of players currently in the market. That is the key point. The stronger (aka broad line) players will remain in the market because they have other businesses supporting the company. But ADS-B conversion boxes for the old GA fleet will only be a tiny sideline for them. ADS-B for new airplanes will simply be integrated into the transponders and the navigators. There won't even be identifiable ADS-B boxes IMO.
     
  16. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    Jim - In Texas!
    It looks to me like it's almost impossible to beat the Garmin 345, especially if you have a Garmin WAAS GPS. This is a dual band transponder / ADS-B / AHRS with a Foreflight compatible WiFi access point for $5000. It also has a tiny $300 altitude encoder as an option as well as a dedicated WAAS GPS if you don't have one now.

    Two form factors: Standard transponder slot, a little deeper, or remote mount that can be driven from a 650 or (I think) the G1000. Same price either way.

    The local avionics shop at Taylor Texas tells me that these boxes have the lowest install cost of any off them (because everything is in the box), and they are able to discount off list price a bit.

    With this you don't need a Stratus II.

    Our club is probably going to install one latter this year.
     
  17. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    I'm pretty sure you still need a stratus... Read the specs again..


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  18. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Are you thinking this for the ADSB-In service? That's not correct. Aviation Consumer helps explain the features/specs. Link to article

     
  19. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Cleared for Takeoff

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    Don't think so...

    • Wirelessly stream weather, traffic, GPS position and backup attitude via Connext™ link to Garmin Pilot™ and ForeFlight Mobile apps as well as the aera® 795/796 portables
     
  20. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    The ESG is out only with a receiver added then you get in... You can use the UAT connection and GPS (source) connection to feed a receiver.. You absolutely need a receiver of some kind attached to the ESG to get "IN"
    They even market it saying it will use the Status


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  21. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Ahhh... I see the confusion... FF_324 was commenting on the Appaero unit. But since that reply was right below Jim's mention of the Garmin 345, I and @Somedudeintn thought the "still needs the Stratus" comment was about the Garmkn.
     
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  22. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    Yep sorry...


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  23. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    Did you get yours, now that they are approved and shipping? Now if you did, are you going to install it now, or wait for the rebate? Just a FYI, the FAA rebate DOES apply if you buy now and install later, but DOES NOT apply if you install now.
     
  24. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Stratus originally said they'd sell you a little panel into which you could plug in your Stratus ADS-B receiver. It would connect to the ship's external antenna and draw power. If that's the case its got my vote. Most parsimonious way for me to obtain both ADS-B out and in.
     
  25. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    From my perspective, it's a half assed way to do it. Half portable, half permanent. Same cost. Who would do this?
     
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  26. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    Me.
     
  27. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    I would do this. I plan for an ADS-B out solution and to use a portable (probably STRATUX on a Raspberry Pi) for my in. I am not limited in my hardware or software choices and I can upgrade without going to the shop.
     
  28. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Me. It is less expensive than the next combined out/in solution by thousands. Moreover, if the "in" receiver is external it can be easily and inexpensively replaced if it breaks or becomes outdated by newer more capable technology. The box in the panel is considerably less capable in that regard.

    When looking for my Mooney I saw a number of aircraft with handheld technology "built in" to the panel. I thought that insanely stupid. Who would want to permanently commit themselves to handheld technology at the rate handheld technology changes. Who here is using the same handheld GPS they did 5 years ago?
     
  29. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    What flavor Kool-Aid you sippin on? Cheaper? Looks like a thousand more to me.
     

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  30. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Originally it was supposed to be an inexpensive panel that you wired into the thing that would take your Stratus receiver. Might have changed. I'll find out at the show and the answer will certainly influence which way I go.
     
  31. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Maybe they looked at their competition and figured they could get more?
     
  32. Velocity Avionics

    Velocity Avionics Filing Flight Plan

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    Might be a good time to avoid the bottle neck. These going to come a time when you're going to be paying overtime rates to get into a good shop before the mandate...
     
  33. Velocity Avionics

    Velocity Avionics Filing Flight Plan

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    As of now, if you don't already have a WAAS source, Stratus is just under $4,500 installed, complete in/out, out the door...
     
  34. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    That's not bad. My GDL88 was $5k out the door on my Archer. But I had a WAAS panel already.
     
  35. gprellwitz

    gprellwitz Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Talked fairly extensively to Appareo at OSH. Really liked the L3 Lynx, but the cost is prohibitive, especially since we'd want to move radios. I already have a Stratus II, so our cost would be the $2995, plus the Stratus II interconnect kit that Steingar was talking about for $150. That gives you a BNC and a DB-12(?) connector and two cables, each about 8'. You use those cable to plug into the GPS, transponder, and power connections on the Stratus II to improve its antenna connections and give ship's power. That unit then gets mounted somewhere accessible so you can take it with you when you're flying an OpenAirplane rental!

    If you don't already have the Stratus II, then you can either purchase one separately at about $900 or go with the Stratus ESGi, which comes with a stripped-down Stratus II that is mounted behind the panel or out of the way. That's only an extra $500 instead of the full price of the Stratus II because it does not include a battery or internal antennas.
     
  36. G-Man

    G-Man Line Up and Wait

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    Grant is right on, and I'll make three minor clarifications:
    Cables are five feet and you're limited to a total of eight feet from the Stratus ESG to the Stratus receiver.
    Connector kits are available for the Stratus 1S, 2, and 2S. Different cables so be sure to order the right one.
    Connector kit has a nine-pin connection.

    Nice explanation, too!
     
  37. German guy

    German guy Cleared for Takeoff

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    The NavWorx ADS-B in / out is around $2,000, dependending in the exact configuration. It comes with a built in GPS receiver and works with any existing Mode C transponder.

    The guys at Foreflight indicated 'unofficially' at AirVenture that they will soon also support the NavWorx transceiver.

    Frankly, unless somebody wants the AHRS and the backup battery of the Stratus or has a broken transponder and is now looking for a minimalistic 2020 compliant replacement, I don't see much of a point in getting the ESG.
     
  38. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route

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    I ordered a Navworx unit. I do not already have waas, so this was easily the cheapest. Plus I can sell my stratus. My installer says that the FAA will send you a 1099 for the $500 rebate. I guess it is income but still.
     
  39. mitbpilot

    mitbpilot Filing Flight Plan

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    Who is doing your install? I'm just west of you out of Moore Co airport.
     
  40. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route

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    I use George Boggs at Cape Fear Regional (910-691-3854). He is a one man shop with 40 years experience. I am a budget flyer and get most of my avionics used. I like him because he does what I ask him to do and doesn't try and sell me on high dollar boxes from Garmin. But if that is what you want he is a Garmin dealer and will be happy to install whatver you want.