Need input on Paris airport transfer

gibbons

gibbons

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For you European travelers... I'm looking at an itinerary that calls for landing at De Gaulle airport in France at 7:20 am and a flight out of Orly airport at 10:15 am. Is 3 hours enough time to get across Paris and check in for the second flight? The flight into De Gaulle is Northwest and the flight out of Orly is Air France.

Would you be comfortable booking this itinerary?
 
As I recall (a few years ago) Air France operated a paid shuttle direct between the two airports. Took about an hour of drive time.

Have you looked into the trains?
 
I wouldn't book it IMO. In 3 hours, you'll have to:

+ Clear customs at CDG (a painful affair every time I've been through, just long lines)
+ Run (that's how big the #$@#%#$ terminals are at CDG) from the customs area up to a shuttle stop
+ Claim your bags
+ Spend an hour getting across the city
+ Recheck your bags
+ Get through security at Orly (not that bad, but time)
+ And be at your gate 30 minutes early.

It's do-able but the risk of failing is pretty high. You're shot to heck if you get one of the apron gates (the "out parking stands" or whatever they call them, where you need to take a bus from the ramp to the terminal). I've had 1 hour layovers and had to sprint to catch my flight at CDG.

My $0.02.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Thanks for the responses folks. I think we can change the 10:15 flight to a 12:50 flight which gives a lot more cushion. Even if we can't I don't intend to book this connection.

This is for my 20 yo son who has never been out of the country and will be traveling alone. He's going to spend about six weeks walking the Camino de Santiago. He's not the least bit concerned about the walk, but getting to St Jean Pied de Port is not an easy task for anyone. Lots of transfers.

Thanks again for the input.
 
I'm with everyone else - don't do it. 5 hours is fine.

One time I was through CDG with a 2 hour connection (arriving and departing CDG) I barely made the outbound flight. And I was/am an experienced traveler. We arrived at a "remote stand" gate, and it took - no lie - 20 minutes for the little bus to circulate around the terminals and arrive at our arrival gate. Then there was Customs & Immigration. And security. And changing terminals. I wouldn't even attempt it to ORY in that short a period. Especially if your son is not used to travel outside the US.

Aside from the signs being in French, CDG is difficult to navigate.

Chip, I'd suggest looking at having him go by rail from CDG to St Jean Pied de Port, and maybe using a French Rail pass. I see, for example, a train connection from CDG to St Jean Pied de Port - about 8 hours on the train with one connection (but beautiful countryside). The one-way fare is $165.... but a France rail pass (good in France only) is $205 (second class, which is fine on a Europe train) --- the pass gives you 3 days travel in a 30 day period. The same first-class pass is $241 US.

Check out www.raileurope.com
 
No. I'd only do the three hour connnection if it were CDG-CDG.

CDG is dreadful to get around and customs will take forever. I'm not joking about wanting 3 hours to connect in the samedamnairport.
 
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gibbons said:
This is for my 20 yo son who has never been out of the country and will be traveling alone. He's going to spend about six weeks walking the Camino de Santiago. He's not the least bit concerned about the walk
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Wow! He's gonna have one helluva learning experience over there. Cool to the extreme! :yes:

Bet he comes back engaged to a young French beauty. ;)
 
woodstock said:
No. I'd only do the three hour connnection if it were CDG-CDG.

CDG is dreadful to get around and customs will take forever. I'm not joking about wanting 3 hours to connect in the samedamnairport.
Click to expand...

Consensus: CDG sucks. Right up there with LHR.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
wsuffa said:
Not even close. IMHO. The French never adopted the idiotic one-carryon-only rule.
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I know... but, frankly Bill, I hate CDG. Always have, always will. My travel agent has explicit instructions in my profile: "EXCL RTNG/CX THRU CDG" Only JFK and ATL have earned that honor from me, but ATL is off the list for now. If I never go back to JFK, it will be too soon.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
astanley said:
I know... but, frankly Bill, I hate CDG. Always have, always will. My travel agent has explicit instructions in my profile: "EXCL RTNG/CX THRU CDG" Only JFK and ATL have earned that honor from me, but ATL is off the list for now. If I never go back to JFK, it will be too soon.
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I hear ya. I avoid both LHR and CDG.

JFK - I actually am fine with that as long as I stay in the same airline's terminal. If I gotta change terminals, I dislike it intensly. The DL operation up there is pretty decent and compact.... Or maybe part of my acceptance of JFK is that I lived in NY a number of years. The problem with JFK, of course, is the airline delays.

Customs & Immigration at ATL are not one of my favorites in the US, but are better than some others (like IAD). IAH is probably my favorite, and CVG is pretty good, too.
 
wsuffa said:
Chip, I'd suggest looking at having him go by rail from CDG to St Jean Pied de Port, and maybe using a French Rail pass. I see, for example, a train connection from CDG to St Jean Pied de Port - about 8 hours on the train with one connection (but beautiful countryside). The one-way fare is $165.... but a France rail pass (good in France only) is $205 (second class, which is fine on a Europe train) --- the pass gives you 3 days travel in a 30 day period. The same first-class pass is $241 US.

Check out www.raileurope.com
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Bill,

I'll look into this. I assume the rail station is somewhere close to CDG?
 
To get to St. Jean, I'd use a BA flight to london and then fly to Toulouse or Bordeaux. I don't remember the trains available to get to St. Jean from either, but you'll have plenty of public transportation options from either.

He'll have a great time. A 3 hours connection isn't enough for a first time traveller.
 
p-thomas said:
To get to St. Jean, I'd use a BA flight to london and then fly to Toulouse or Bordeaux. I don't remember the trains available to get to St. Jean from either, but you'll have plenty of public transportation options from either.

He'll have a great time. A 3 hours connection isn't enough for a first time traveller.
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Paul,

We'll look at going through London again. Have you done the walk?
 
gibbons said:
Paul,

We'll look at going through London again. Have you done the walk?
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No, but I lived in France 15 years and used to go to St. Jean as a weekend getaway. I lived between Bordeaux and Mt. de Marsan.
 
You might consider Madrid and taking the train from there. Not sure if he wants to do anything else, but if he does want to explore other parts of the country, the Eurail pass rules!!
 
Chip, if you're looking into other connections, see if you can do a Northwest/KLM through Amsterdam. Best airport in Europe, IMHO.

Never been to CDG, but I will avoid LHR like the plague. What a piece of crap.
 
OK European travelers... next question:

What's the best way to send him over there with some way to spend money when he needs to? Should he carry a pocket full of Euros? Will his ATM card work? Credit card? Animal pelts?

Also, does he need to do anything to get his AT&T cell phone to work from Spain?

Thanks for the help. We don't get out much.
 
ATM card and Visa, that's all he needs. I wouldn't bother buying euros before he goes, unless maybe he wants 50E in his pocket just in case - but if he remembers to hit the ATM before he leaves the airport he's all set.

He'd probably have to call ATT and ask them to activate the international part of his phone (assuming he has one that also works on GSM).
 
woodstock said:
ATM card and Visa, that's all he needs. I wouldn't bother buying euros before he goes, unless maybe he wants 50E in his pocket just in case - but if he remembers to hit the ATM before he leaves the airport he's all set.

He'd probably have to call ATT and ask them to activate the international part of his phone (assuming he has one that also works on GSM).
Click to expand...

See? And my wife wonders why I spend so much time on PoA.

Thanks.
 
Instead of using his US phone, I'd suggest buying either a) a GSM SIM card or b) a prepay phone without contract in Europe. Both are available for $20-40.

If he's going to make more than 1 or 2 calls, it'll be a LOT cheaper. I forget exactly how much I pay when I take my T-Mobile phone to Europe, but I think it's on the order of $1-2/minute.

-Felix
 
gibbons said:
See? And my wife wonders why I spend so much time on PoA.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

1) Call his/your bank first and tell them the card will be out of the country. I've had cards (too many times to count) shut off while traveling, and it sucks.

2) Check your bank's foreign withdrawal plan. I had one that wanted $5 per transaction and 2.25% of each transaction as an "exchange fee". I'm now at $2 and 2%, and take out money in large-ish chunks. I get nicked with a 2% transaction fee.

3) Some less-than-scrupulous places will offer to let him pay in American $s on his credit card. Nine times out of 10, you will get screwed on the exchange rate. Pay in the price marked in Euro. (They tried to do this to my MIL on the Ponte Vecchio a few weeks ago, at a well known place, so it's not just scumbucket looking places...)

4) I always travel with at least enough money for a beer, a phone call, and a bottle of water. 50 euro is great to have in your back pocket.

5) DO NOT USE THE TRAVELEX PLACE IN THE AIRPORT. I can't say this enough. Most banks will gladly exchange money in person for a favorable rate plus fee, even in the US.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
sba55 said:
Instead of using his US phone, I'd suggest buying either a) a GSM SIM card or b) a prepay phone without contract in Europe. Both are available for $20-40.

If he's going to make more than 1 or 2 calls, it'll be a LOT cheaper. I forget exactly how much I pay when I take my T-Mobile phone to Europe, but I think it's on the order of $1-2/minute.

-Felix
Click to expand...

Same here. $.75 a minute on my AT&T phone in .eu and upwards of $2 a minute in China and India. My first trip to India, I was the only one with a quad band phone. 4 of us shared it. $2800 phone bill that month.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
astanley said:
Same here. $.75 a minute on my AT&T phone in .eu and upwards of $2 a minute in China and India. My first trip to India, I was the only one with a quad band phone. 4 of us shared it. $2800 phone bill that month.

Cheers,

-Andrew
Click to expand...
Yep. I find that my phone bill is a great source of Starwood points. It's an easy, fully reimbursable, 2000 miles per trip :D

-Felix
 
sba55 said:
Instead of using his US phone, I'd suggest buying either a) a GSM SIM card or b) a prepay phone without contract in Europe. Both are available for $20-40.
-Felix
Click to expand...

OK. Help me with this. I can buy a prepay phone for use in Europe here? Or does he need to buy one when he gets there? Without a contract in Europe or with a contract in Europe?

Why can't he go find himself someplace where they speak English, take dollars, and his cell phone has an unlimited number of minutes?
 
gibbons said:
OK. Help me with this. I can buy a prepay phone for use in Europe here? Or does he need to buy one when he gets there? Without a contract in Europe or with a contract in Europe?

Why can't he go find himself someplace where they speak English, take dollars, and his cell phone has an unlimited number of minutes?
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I'll give it a shot. Sorry if it's a bit of a convoluted explanation....

- If his AT&T phone is unlocked (ie. not tied to his specific AT&T card), then you can use any SIM card with it. If it's locked, then you can't, however, many providers will give you the unlock code if you've been a customer for 1-2 years. I've gotten a code from T-Mobile for my phone, so now I can use any SIM card I'd like with it (phone number, etc., are all stored on the card). The only thing to be sure about is that the phone you're going to use works on 900/1800 MHz.

That said:

- My preference would be to buy a prepaid, no contract, SIM card in the US. If you can't get the phone unlocked, you can also buy a prepaid, no contract, phone in either the US or Europe.

- They often have cell phone stores right in the airport, and those folks usually speak English, so he could buy a prepaid phone there.

If you want to buy a sim card/phone here:

- I've used this company a few years ago:

http://www.cellularabroad.com/

There's lots of others out there. There's some significant advantages to buying a European SIM card or phone:

- Calls to the US are usually only a fraction of the price you'd pay otherwise. In this case, $0.10/minute (as opposed to $2/minute).
- Incoming calls, even int'l ones, don't use up your minutes. So even if he somehow runs out of minutes, you can still call him.
- He get a local (Spanish, in this case) phone number, making it cheap for people there to call him.

- As for unlimited minutes, I don't know of any company that offers that as a prepaid option. So he'd have to do a contract, which might be difficult if you're not a resident. I don't know about Spain in particular, but I know that, in Germany, they don't give contracts to people without a domestic address.

Hope that helps :)

-Felix
 
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As noted before, CDG is a mess. Getting to Orly, I don't even want to think about it, but 5 hours should be OK. Remember, he's arriving on Northwest, the largest unscheduled airline in the world. In nearly 40 years of traveling on commercial airlines they have gotten me to/from only one destination on time - Hawaii. And it took them 30 years to do that. Don't know about customs at CDG this year as I came in from Copenhagen, and didn't have any trouble at all. I don't recall it being all that bad last year. However, the airport is a confusing mess, even for an experienced traveler.

I'll second the ATM and Visa cards. And exchange very little money in the US. I always get the worst rates here. And, if there is a chance that he might return some time, don't exchange back to dollars at the end of the trip. Just keep the Euros for the next time. No sense paying the banks twice. I did that in February and will use them in Milan next month.

Tell him to have fun. Sounds like a great summer trip.
 
If he can wait until he's out of the airport before using the ATM card, that should save a buck or two. Airport ATMs seem to be notorious for high fees.

As far as the prepaid thing goes, I've found that recharge cards can be found fairly easily.
 
Ghery said:
I'll second the ATM and Visa cards. And exchange very little money in the US. I always get the worst rates here. And, if there is a chance that he might return some time, don't exchange back to dollars at the end of the trip. Just keep the Euros for the next time. .
Click to expand...

+1 I always come home with about 50E in my pocket, sometimes 100. It's nice to have a little extra - and with the dollar spiral, I have been slightly hedging my money. haha (ouch).
 
woodstock said:
ATM card and Visa, that's all he needs. I wouldn't bother buying euros before he goes, unless maybe he wants 50E in his pocket just in case - but if he remembers to hit the ATM before he leaves the airport he's all set.

He'd probably have to call ATT and ask them to activate the international part of his phone (assuming he has one that also works on GSM).
Click to expand...

He should arrive in France with at least 50E in his pocket. I always carry enough for cab fare and a cheap meal. Especially France - I arrived one time with five Euros in my pocket expecting to use the ATM - unfortunately, the telecom workers had gone on strike and shut down the data circuits used to verify the transaction.... ergo, no cash, no credit for international folks. I finally found an AmEx office in Paris that was able to give me cash. One reason I maintain AmEx even if it's pricy.

sba55 said:
Instead of using his US phone, I'd suggest buying either a) a GSM SIM card or b) a prepay phone without contract in Europe. Both are available for $20-40.

If he's going to make more than 1 or 2 calls, it'll be a LOT cheaper. I forget exactly how much I pay when I take my T-Mobile phone to Europe, but I think it's on the order of $1-2/minute.

-Felix
Click to expand...

That's true, but make sure you check out the cost of an international call-back via a local SIM card. And you may have trouble with AT&T unlocking your phone (especially if it's an Iphone). I got a new, unlocked, quad-band phone via EBay & I use it heavily when I travel internationally.

gibbons said:
OK. Help me with this. I can buy a prepay phone for use in Europe here? Or does he need to buy one when he gets there? Without a contract in Europe or with a contract in Europe?

Why can't he go find himself someplace where they speak English, take dollars, and his cell phone has an unlimited number of minutes?
Click to expand...

Prepay = no contract. You can probably find a place on the internet who will sell you a phone and prepay SIM.

BTW, if he's going to take a laptop, internet access is very pricey and high-speed is not available in many places. He should plan on either 1) using an internet cafe, or 2) using a service like My Travel Access. I've had a Travel Access account for a number of years, ever since I gave Compuserve the boot.

The other thing to consider - especially if he's going to have internet service - is to set up accounts on Skype. I think it's still free for computer-computer calling, and it's dirt cheap for international calls to cell/landline phones. I use it heavily when traveling on business.... last trip to London, I paid a (outrageous) sum for hotel broadband internet (about US$30/day), but I more than paid that back by using it to make Skype calls both back to the US and to other parties in the UK and Europe. Telecom charges are outrageous.

Finally, there's the old traveler's trick. If you set up the right service plan (see Skype), calls from the US to Europe are far cheaper than vice-versa. You can keep the costs way down by having him call when he wants to talk, then hanging up and you call him back. Huge savings are possible.

The other comments on ATM and credit cards are on-point. Make sure you talk to the bank before he goes and find out what's necessary to make sure the cards are usable overseas. And find out how they apply exchange rates & transaction fees. The nice thing about my USAA bank account is the rebate of ATM transaction fees on the cash-card. Get a Europe toll-free call-back number that he can use if there are problems.

Oh, almost nobody uses traveler's checks any more, but if you go that route, ask around at your AAA office (if you're a member) or bank and see if they can sell you some in Euros. That way you pay your local exchange rate (usually a bit high, but far less than a hotel desk and some local banks in Europe).
 
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For what it's worth, about 7 years ago I bought a pre-paid Vodaphone in London (back in the day when I was job-hunting there) and it's quite easy to set up. For a long time I used it as my vacation phone because you just load it up once you landed in Europe and it was good to go.

For some reason it was very hard (almost impossible) to use in France - it was set up to work anywhere in Europe but simply didn't work in France, perhaps due to their network. He might want to consider waiting until he gets to Spain to get his phone and not just get it straight off the plane - assuming Spain is where he is going to spend most of his time that is.

I've no idea if the same conditions apply in France now as then (nor do I know what the real problem was, for all I know it was unique to that phone) - but it's something to consider. Plus, it would be cheaper to have a Spanish local phone number while in Spain.
 
Thanks again everyone for your great input. I got a text from my son this morning. He made all of his connections but didn't get any sleep enroute, so when he arrived in St. Jean he had been awake for 30 hours. He found a place to sleep and is on the trail today walking across the Pyrenees.

His cell phone can text from France but can't make calls for some reason. The helpful folks at AT&T don't seem particularly concerned with figuring out what the problem is so he'll live with it until he gets into Spain where his new sim card *should* work.

Thanks again. This is a great group.
 
gibbons said:
His cell phone can text from France but can't make calls for some reason. The helpful folks at AT&T don't seem particularly concerned with figuring out what the problem is so he'll live with it until he gets into Spain where his new sim card *should* work.

Thanks again. This is a great group.
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Is this his US sim?

Is he dialing using IDD correctly?

He should just use the + code and then '1' followed by the 10 digit number when calling the US. When callin in country (France) he still needs to dial using the '+" sign and '33' followed by the French number.
 
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