Need class B clearance even when flying on IFR flight

odachoo

odachoo

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Odachoo
HI Friends,
Do you still need to get cleared for class B to pass through even you are on a filed IFR flight plan ?

Thanks,
Odachoo
 
After filing the IFR plan you have to talk to ATC to receive your IFR clearance. So you are then cleared for whatever airspace your route traverses, including Class B. There's no need to ask for what you already have.

Flying VFR is different because there is generally no clearance involved in flying VFR, even if you have filed a VFR flight plan, so if a particular airspace requires a clearance you must get it as a one-off arrangement.
 
In this respect at least, IFR flights are simpler than VFR flights. Get your clearance, go where they clear you, and you don't have to worry nearly so much about inadvertently stumbling into a weapons free zone.
 
JimNtexas said:
In this respect at least, IFR flights are simpler than VFR flights. Get your clearance, go where they clear you, and you don't have to worry nearly so much about inadvertently stumbling into a weapons free zone.
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Like Texas??

ZING!

Back to your thread.
 
No ,if your in a high traffic area,classB and restricted areas, it's always easier to go IFR and let ATC do the work.
 
You know, I've been wondering a similar point. On VFR, you are responsible for your routing and avoiding other planes and appropriate airspaces. On IFR, ATC is responsible for your routing and avoiding other planes and appropriate airspaces. If that is truly the case, why, for flight planning purposes, do you need to be familiar with restricted, MOA's, TFR's, etc. if it is a moot point?
 
ahkahn said:
You know, I've been wondering a similar point. On VFR, you are responsible for your routing and avoiding other planes and appropriate airspaces. On IFR, ATC is responsible for your routing and avoiding other planes and appropriate airspaces. If that is truly the case, why, for flight planning purposes, do you need to be familiar with restricted, MOA's, TFR's, etc. if it is a moot point?
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If you never take off VFR to pick up your IFR clearance (imagine someone who didn't check for TFR's taking off VFR from KMJX on Monday 12/15 between 1345-1630 EST planning to pick up that IFR clearance in the air :yikes:), and you never cancel IFR in the air, your point is technically correct. However, it's a real pain when you call for your clearance and they say "I have a full route clearance, advise when ready to copy" because replanning your entire flight in the cockpit isn't that easy (especially if you took off VFR so you have to keep flying the airplane and maintain VFR while you do it). If you're familiar with all those things, you can plan and file a viable route so you get "cleared as filed" (or something pretty close to it), which makes it a lot less likely you'll mess something up trying to follow a clearance you didn't expect.
 
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ahkahn said:
... why, for flight planning purposes, do you need to be familiar with restricted, MOA's, TFR's, etc. if it is a moot point?
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Well, particularly in the case of MOAs, they can affect your flight to a significant degree.

For example, if you look at a route from Waycross GA (KAYS) to Savannah (KSAV) there is a virtual wall of MOAs blocking what would otherwise be a short flight. If the MOAs are hot, you'll get vectored around them to the south and your fuel plan will be significantly affected.

I actually had Ron's scenario there one time. Took off VFR from KAYS planning to pick up my direct IFR flight plan and the first thing the nice man gave me was a 90 degree right turn. Fortunately the MOA went cold a few minutes later and he gave me a turn back onto my direct course. Fuel wasn't an issue for me that day, but for someone coming from farther west expecting to go straight through the MOAs it easily could be. Add a little coastal fog and it could become a real bad day.
 
Nistlerooy, great answer! I really appreciate the controllers' story.
 
Nistlerooy said:
If I'm a controller and I send someone through a restricted area and that pilot comes back and says "verify R-123 is cold? My briefing earlier indicated it was active." Personally I won't get upset. It's always a bad idea to assume anything. Some controllers will get miffed that you asked. Let them. Cover your own arse, because the controller sure won't cover it for you!!
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Just to clarify.

If you fly IFR, I am required to ensure separation between IFR aircraft and SUA (SUA = special use airspace MOA's, R's, etc). If I fail to do so, that's on me. In twelve years of working traffic, I've never seen a pilot have to answer to anyone (especially a FSDO) for an airspace violation a controller had, but I digress.

Any controller worth their salt will appreciate a pilot with good situational awareness that provides a helpful reminder.
 
A controller is not supposed to route planes through SUA that they're not allowed to be in. A pilot technically should be absolved on an R area as it's ATC who almost always is the controlling agency anyhow. There is however no such exception on P areas so it behooves you to make sure that you're not being routed (improperly) through those. God help you if ATC clears you into the FRZ when you're not authorized. I don't think they busted that guy, but they wouldn't let him fly his plane out by himself.
 
MarkZ said:
Just to clarify.

If you fly IFR, I am required to ensure separation between IFR aircraft and SUA (SUA = special use airspace MOA's, R's, etc). If I fail to do so, that's on me. In twelve years of working traffic, I've never seen a pilot have to answer to anyone (especially a FSDO) for an airspace violation a controller had, but I digress.

Any controller worth their salt will appreciate a pilot with good situational awareness that provides a helpful reminder.
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Hey Mark, thanks for chiming in! I see you're in Oswego- are you in the Tracon or Center?? Nice to meet a local controller!

-Andrew
 
ahkahn said:
Hey Mark, thanks for chiming in! I see you're in Oswego- are you in the Tracon or Center?? Nice to meet a local controller!



-Andrew
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I'm at Chicago TRACON. Been here for a year.
 
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Might want to edit the thread title to add a question mark. Its absence makes it look like a statement which made me look (expecting a coming change to FARs or something).
 
frfly172 said:
No ,if your in a high traffic area,classB and restricted areas, it's always easier to go IFR and let ATC do the work.
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Sometimes letting "ATC do the work" gets you a grand scenic tour. Your general principle has merit, but ATC has to want to play ball, too. I was flying VFR leaving Trenton, NJ going to Tipton (outside of Baltimore), and Philadelphia Approach's version of "working with me" was the quickest vector outside their Bravo airspace. I've found NY Approach much more accommodating.
 
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