Need assistance backup up XP files

Dave Siciliano

Final Approach
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Dave Siciliano
I purchased a large external hard drive for my Daughter and am having touble copying all the files on her computer to the external drive. If I highlight the C drive and right click to copy; then, highlight the external drive and click paste, it begins the copy process but gets to something called pagefile and stops; says it can't copy that. It had stopped once before at hiberfil and I elimiated that problem, but this one's got me. Any suggestions? There is no backup program on her version of XP Home edition.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave,

Page file cannot be backed up. Tell the backup program to ignore it.

There is a backup program with XP Home, but you have to install it from the original install disks with the setup program.

Much better to get a program that images the drive....
 
Dave,

Page file cannot be backed up. Tell the backup program to ignore it.

There is a backup program with XP Home, but you have to install it from the original install disks with the setup program.

Much better to get a program that images the drive....

Thanks Bill. On our office network, I just mark a drive and copy it. I can't tell the copy program to ingnore. It just stops. Is there a program you recommend. This is just a once a month home computer back up deal

Best,

Dave
 
Dave,

Acronis has a good reputation. I'm sure some of the others around here will chime in with their favorites.
 
There are certain files that can't be copied, and both pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys are among them. On the bright side, neither one is needed for a successful restore. The system will re-create them on first boot.

I'm unclear, though, about why you want to copy all of the files on the C: drive. That's not the way to do a full hard drive backup.

There are several ways to do a backup, each with its proponents. Some programs make a compressed image that can then be extracted back onto the machine's hard drive (or more likely, a new one). There are scads of these programs out there. One of the more popular ones is Acronis, but there are many others. These programs tend to differ mainly in their feature sets. (The better ones allow differential and/or incremental backups, for example.)

The other way to make a hard drive backup is by cloning the hard drive. Once again, there are dozens of programs (some free) that will clone a drive. There's also a program called Casper that I use quite often that will clone the drive on a scheduled basis, from within Windows. (Most other cloning programs run from bootable media.)

The advantage to cloning is that if the hard drive fails, you just pop the new one in and carry on. It's a fast recovery that minimizes downtime to a matter of minutes. The main disadvantage is that you only get the one clone and no option to choose a different backup set. So if a virus or other problem gets cloned onto the backup, the backup drive is also affected.

If you want to back up the hard drive using an archived image, then an external hard drive of adequate size is a perfectly good way to do it.

If you want to do a clone, then the actual drive inside the external drive must be able to be installed within the computer in order to be able to swap it in after a system drive failure. (In other words, it must be the same physical size, equal or greater capacity, and same interface as the internal drive.) If it's not, then it's still possible to copy the clone back into the machine, but you lose the advantage (that is, speedy recovery) of having used a cloning system in the first place.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses on this. It's a popular topic that has had several threads devoted to it.

Congratulations for thinking about backup, whatever method you choose.

Rich
 
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Well, silly me. I bought a new computer for my Daughter and thought I'd just copy everything on the hard drive over to the external: OS and all. Then just put it on the new one. But we have XP pro on her new machine and updated Office software. Guess I'll just copy the data files and leave the operating stuff alone. See what I get for trying to make it real simple <g>

Best,

Dave
 
Dave, what external drive did you get? Most now come with software that is pretty good about letting you set up a periodic backup with your choice of folders and files. I have two Buffalo drives with great software for daily backup.
 
Well, silly me. I bought a new computer for my Daughter and thought I'd just copy everything on the hard drive over to the external: OS and all. Then just put it on the new one. But we have XP pro on her new machine and updated Office software. Guess I'll just copy the data files and leave the operating stuff alone. See what I get for trying to make it real simple <g>

Best,

Dave
No, Dave, don't do that. Image the WHOLE drive. So when her HD gets a hit in the boot track and you have the blue screen of death, you can insert the Acronis disc, it boots in a GUI running Unix, it grocs the files in the external hard drive and can be directed to re-write the image with ALL the licenses right back onto the old HD, which is not used to boot- it's just data.

Plus Acronis V10 can be used to backup up specified directories on a schedule, too.

...as related to me by the grand jedi master, Mr. M. Andrews (mikea) and practiced by his minor disciple in my place of business and home.
 
Well, I still like Casper because I love the idea of getting the machine back up in 10 minutes. But I also make weekly images of the system drives. (I happen to use an open-source program called SelfImage because I'm testing it out, not because I have anything against Acronis, Amanda, or any of the dozen or so other imaging solutions I could use.) I stash the images on my Linux server. The server itself is imaged to a RAIDed NAS, and I use offsite backup using sFTP for the most important files.

But Casper has become my first line of defense for Windows machines. In fact, I have never actually had to use any of the other backups since I started using Casper. Why fart around extracting images when I can simply swap the clone in place of the failed drive and have it up and running within 10 - 15 minutes?

But again, whatever method you use, I'm glad when people think backup. I'm a backup nut. In addition to the above, all of my desktop windows machines have four drives: the system drive, the storage drive, and a clone of each of them. The two drives are cloned automatically at night, and I can refresh them manually if I make a major change that I would hate to lose were the drive to immediately die.

Windows laptops are also cloned to external drives, but manually, depending on how often the laptop is used. Linux laptop drives are imaged to the server.

Hey, we all have our obsessions. Mine is backup. I love these machines, but I don't trust them.

Rich
 
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Dave, what external drive did you get? Most now come with software that is pretty good about letting you set up a periodic backup with your choice of folders and files. I have two Buffalo drives with great software for daily backup.

500GB from Western digital from Dell. Looks just like another hard drive.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave,

1) To transfer from one XP machine to another, use the file and settings transfer wizard.

2) What level of technical expertise are you at? What level of protection do you desire?

As I am the resident tech support for both my parents, my aunt and my younger brother, I have some slight experience with backups. If you have one computer, then a single external hard drive connected to it and something like Acronis or a free equivalent is probably a good bet.

If you self rate to "low" on the tech scale (i.e. Don't confuse me, just make it work) and have more than one computer, all windows or a mix of windows and mac, then let me strongly, strongly encourage you to purchase a windows home server (WHS). The home server is truly an appliance, like a toaster or a microwave: you plug it in and it just works. I will go out on a limb and say the WHS is one of the best software products MS has ever come up with. I've been using it since the first beta and have been extremely impressed. Quite simply, about once a day it copies the contents of your windows computer over to the WHS. It uses several clever mechanisms so that it only backs up things that have changed, significantly increasing backup speed after the first go. In addition, it provides Network Attached Storage (NAS), a "virtual" hard drive that all of your computers can see, and a really easy way of sharing files around the house. Finally, it comes with a nice web based file browser so you can access your home files from anywhere.

If you are "medium" on the techie scale you can either install the WHS software on a machine of your building (or any old wreck you have lying around), or, you can go with FreeNAS (http://freenas.org/), which is a very stripped down linux (BSD really) NAS server, supporting (Among other things) rSync as well as FTP, Samba, etc. In addition, while it had been on hiatus forever, FreeNAS finally seems to have development going again.

Finally, if you're nerdtacular like me or Rich, you've probably already got your own situation figured out and are laughing at my n00b advice, but I personally use an SGI Onyx 2 (Big Endian MIPS, yay!) hooked up to a SCSI rack.

~ Christopher
 
Dave is many, many things, all of them good.

But "nerdtacular"- I feel safe in saying, that, he ain't!
 
Finally, if you're nerdtacular like me or Rich, you've probably already got your own situation figured out and are laughing at my n00b advice, but I personally use an SGI Onyx 2 (Big Endian MIPS, yay!) hooked up to a SCSI rack.

~ Christopher

I don't laugh at any backup plan that works. I just sadly shake my head when people have none at all.

I'm not as enthusiastic about Windows Home Server as you are. I have mixed feelings about it and have chosen not to recommend it at this time, at least until it has a track record.

On the positive side, though, the core system itself is based on one of the most useful and well thought-out products MS has ever released, Windows 2003 SBS. (WHS lacks Active Directory and other features dependent on it, but those features would just be confusing to home users, anyway). They also did a nice job on the client end, which may actually encourage people to do backups even if for no other reason than that it's automated and low-key enough that they don't get around to breaking it once it's enabled.

I do, however, have some concerns. I worry about malware, for example. A system running WHS is basically a glorified NAS, and it would have been possible to run it on embedded Linux (anathema to MS, I know) rather than Windows. This would have reduced the chances of the server being taken down by malware fed to it by one of the clients. I don't buy the argument that using cluster-based backup significantly ameliorates this risk, nor do I think that most home users will sufficiently monitor the server's security.

I also have a big issue with the remote file-sharing feature. Running SMB-enabled features over the Internet on a Windows box is scary to me, especially on a box maintained by home users.

I also wonder how well the intelligent merging feature of WHS will be able to decide whether files are truly redundant, and how dependably the system will be able to recompile the individual client images. In theory, intelligent merging saves both space and time during the backup phase. But it also means that each computer's "image" is really a composite consisting of both its own unique files, and files that also exist on other machines and are held in common storage somewhere on the server. This is a nice space-saving trick if it can be pulled off consistently, but I want to wait and see whether that's consistently true in real life. (I also wonder if and how much this will slow down a restore from image, but on a home system I'm not sure how big a deal that would be, anyway.)

Finally, although WHS does provide multi-disk redundancy, I'm not sure I trust it as much as I would trust RAID mirroring with a hot spare. On the other hand, the way WHS handles things does reduce the possibility of all of the drives being taken down simultaneously by a bad RAID controller, which is the SPoF in a lot of RAID systems; and it does avoid the necessity of an unsophisticated user having to learn about RAID arrays. So I guess I'm starting to warm to this particular feature.

Rich
 
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Dave,

1) To transfer from one XP machine to another, use the file and settings transfer wizard.

2) What level of technical expertise are you at? What level of protection do you desire?

As I am the resident tech support for both my parents, my aunt and my younger brother, I have some slight experience with backups. If you have one computer, then a single external hard drive connected to it and something like Acronis or a free equivalent is probably a good bet.

If you self rate to "low" on the tech scale (i.e. Don't confuse me, just make it work) and have more than one computer, all windows or a mix of windows and mac, then let me strongly, strongly encourage you to purchase a windows home server (WHS). The home server is truly an appliance, like a toaster or a microwave: you plug it in and it just works. I will go out on a limb and say the WHS is one of the best software products MS has ever come up with. I've been using it since the first beta and have been extremely impressed. Quite simply, about once a day it copies the contents of your windows computer over to the WHS. It uses several clever mechanisms so that it only backs up things that have changed, significantly increasing backup speed after the first go. In addition, it provides Network Attached Storage (NAS), a "virtual" hard drive that all of your computers can see, and a really easy way of sharing files around the house. Finally, it comes with a nice web based file browser so you can access your home files from anywhere.

If you are "medium" on the techie scale you can either install the WHS software on a machine of your building (or any old wreck you have lying around), or, you can go with FreeNAS (http://freenas.org/), which is a very stripped down linux (BSD really) NAS server, supporting (Among other things) rSync as well as FTP, Samba, etc. In addition, while it had been on hiatus forever, FreeNAS finally seems to have development going again.

Finally, if you're nerdtacular like me or Rich, you've probably already got your own situation figured out and are laughing at my n00b advice, but I personally use an SGI Onyx 2 (Big Endian MIPS, yay!) hooked up to a SCSI rack.

~ Christopher

Can I use the transfer wizzard if one machine is XP Home edition and the other is XP pro? That certainly sounds like the easiest method of transferring to the new computer if it's an option. If not, I'll just move the user files via the external drive.

I'm not a newby, I guess I'm a strong user with some technical expertise but definitely not in the league of those that do this stuff for a livin! I do have an IT guy maintain our network at the office, but this is home family stuff. Can call him if I really need to.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave:

Yep, the transfer wizard should work between any versions of XP.

Rich:

The nice thing that they did with WHS was wrap ActiveDirectory in "drive" pool making it easy for the lay person to add a drive. I actually built a WHS server for my parents, and I used two seperate RAID controllers, and two RAID 5 arrays, however, since the RAID is all controlled in Firmware, to WHS it is just a couple of "big" drives.

WHS does not allow SMB over the net, only access through an HTTPS web service that 'looks' a lot like live and (I think) uses ASP. I didn't spend more then a little time playing with it, but WHS has some mechanism to examine incoming connections and reject RDP and SMB from outside of the local network.

Whenever I need to login to do something for my parents, I need to establish a VPN before it will let me log in.

It's not perfect, but it is really easy, and it is something that laypeople will continue to use, plus Server 2K3 virus protection runs on the WHS platform.

In the end, I think that it's a nice compromise for a lot of people, although, obviously, I don't personally use it.

~ Christopher
 
Sorry to ask for more help, but I can't copy files from the computer to the new external drive. It creates a short cut on the new drive rather than actually copying files. When I try to right click and mark, then, paste, same thing, only a short cut. I tried using the folder and file management option and it won't let me select copy. This is Windows XP Home edition. Is there some setting I need to change on here or some permission I need to copy the files over?

Thanks,

Dave
 
You should be able to open a window for the external drive on the desktop. Drag files from whatever other source into that window. Drag either single files or control-click for multiple files.
 
You should be able to open a window for the external drive on the desktop. Drag files from whatever other source into that window. Drag either single files or control-click for multiple files.

That's what I'm used to, but this machine isn't doing it. It just puts a short cut to the files on the new external drive.

Best,

Dave
 
Weird... I can't explain that one.

Got some tech support from India. Seems the My Documents file is a system file and couldn't be copied. Just had to mark the subfiles and they moved fine. Geesh. Seems the simplier they try to make it, the more difficult it is for anyone that already knows something <g>

Best,

Dave
 
Got some tech support from India. Seems the My Documents file is a system file and couldn't be copied. Just had to mark the subfiles and they moved fine. Geesh. Seems the simplier they try to make it, the more difficult it is for anyone that already knows something <g>

Best,

Dave
I've copied the entire "My Documents" folder in the past. The Buffalo external also has that folder as a whole to backup every night. I'm even more confused. :dunno:
 
Dave, if it's making shortcuts on your desktop the system is NOT recognizing the external HD.

"My documents" is just another folder. Your Bengali Tech Support either didn't say that or he's smoking something.
 
Dave, if it's making shortcuts on your desktop the system is NOT recognizing the external HD.

"My documents" is just another folder. Your Bengali Tech Support either didn't say that or he's smoking something.

No, Doc, I think he just didn't explain it properly. Most of the support techs in India are pretty bright, but sometimes their English language skills are less than wonderful.

The reason you can't copy the whole folder from its Start Menu or Desktop icon is because the "My Documents" folder is assigned to its location in C:\Documents and Settings\ [User]\ by default, not to the Start Menu or Desktop. Those are just shortcuts (or symbolic links, if you prefer).

The Documents folder can be moved (for example, mine is on "S:" drive, for "storage"), but you can't just drag it in there from its location on the Start Menu. It's location is assigned there by default and must be changed from the properties menu, not by dragging and dropping.

Had he actually navigated to the actual folder, he could have made the copy. But to do it from the Start Menu shortcut (or even the desktop shortcut, if he elects to show it on the desktop) is not possible. The way to do that is as he described: He has to open the icon (actually just a shortcut) and then copy all of the subfolders and files.

The reason for this, in essence, is because "My Documents" does not actually reside in those locations on the Start Menu, nor (usually) on the desktop. Those icons are shortcuts, even though they don't have the little arrow. To copy the entire folder, one must navigate to its absolute path.

Rich
 
Ahhh... I hadn't thought of that. Most folks go to the shortcut created on the desktop. I go through the directories most of the time.

Speaking of techs, I don't know where HP's techs are but I sure wouln't go with the "bright" part. This one woman was trying to tell me the computer could only be connected to the modem. It won't work through a router. It didn't matter as I tried to explain there were five different computers connected through a router and two switches and all but ONE computer worked great.
Right_Bash.gif
 
....

Speaking of techs, I don't know where HP's techs are but I sure wouln't go with the "bright" part. This one woman was trying to tell me the computer could only be connected to the modem. It won't work through a router.

....

Now that's one I haven't come across before. Phone support people sometimes bypass the router if none of the computers have Internet to rule out a bad router. But if all of the other computers have Internet, there doesn't seem to be much point in bypassing the router for diagnostics. :no:

Rich
 
Thanks guys; we seem to have gotten there. The only task that seems to be left is exporting and importing the Outlook contacts. I did have trouble with the Dell folks when they dribbled out parts of the computer. The route hasn't arrived yet. No bluetooth keyboard or mouse, but the main stuff is here, up and running. The external drive has performed flawlessly and is just like another hard drive to use. I really appreciate the assistance. This all seems to work out if one is patient, and I was working on Christmas.

I'll look into the back up system y'all recommended when I get back home. I think XP with the external drive should be fine for my Daughter.

Merry Christmas again,

Best,

Dave
 
The only task that seems to be left is exporting and importing the Outlook contacts.
I have tried this a number of ways and the most workable seems to be to export the contacts to an Excell file, and then re-import them as needed.

NB: for some reason, the default map upon exporting does not capture all of the Outlook fields. A significant one left out (on my version, Outlook 2003 updated with SP2) is the email address. (What exactly was Microsoft thinking? Oh, that's right, they weren't.) So go through the custom field mapping to make sure you capture what you need. There is no downside to capturing all fields (even blank ones) as the process is speedy.

-Skip
 
I have tried this a number of ways and the most workable seems to be to export the contacts to an Excell file, and then re-import them as needed.-Skip


Unless you need the contacts in Excel for some other reason, why not just have Outlook export your contacts into a new & separate PST file? You could also just do a simple copy of the entire Outlook PST and get a backup of the emails, contacts, calendar, etc.
 
Unless you need the contacts in Excel for some other reason, why not just have Outlook export your contacts into a new & separate PST file? You could also just do a simple copy of the entire Outlook PST and get a backup of the emails, contacts, calendar, etc.

Joe:

Where would that file be? That's what I'm about to do is try to put all her former Outlook data on a new compute with Outlook on it.

Best,

Dave
 
Unless you need the contacts in Excel for some other reason, why not just have Outlook export your contacts into a new & separate PST file? You could also just do a simple copy of the entire Outlook PST and get a backup of the emails, contacts, calendar, etc.

I've never had success doing that unless the versions of XP were identical clones. Go through an automatic update cycle and all bets are off. At least that is what happened to me early in the life of XP, it could have been fixed now but I'm not one to trust this "feature".

-Skip
 
Joe:

Where would that file be? That's what I'm about to do is try to put all her former Outlook data on a new compute with Outlook on it.

Best,

Dave


Assuming you want the entire existing Outlook PST file (contacts, calender, email, etc), all you have to do is find your current Outlook PST file on the old machine and copy it to the proper location on the new machine. PST files are nothing special and you can move/copy them like any other file. The only “trick” is making sure the one you move/copy is the same one Outlook is using. Outlook will tell you the file name & path but the exact methodology varies slightly depending on the version of Outlook.

In Windows XP, the "outlook.pst" file (that's its default name) normally is found at C:\Documents and Settings\<your user_id>\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook. Make sure Outlook is closed and copy this file to your new machine, same location. Verify you got what you needed. If not, then you need to try a more precise approach to find the correct file but the approach varies slightly depending on your version of Outlook.


For Outlook 2003 (that's all I have available), select File|Date-File-Management. That presents you with a dialog box showing your Outlook data files. Most likely, there will be only one entry but it will only show a partial file name due to the long path/file name. Double click on that entry and it you get another dialog box that contains a Filename box. The path/file name displayed may be truncated but the box is scrollable if you click on it. Close Outlook and copy that file to your new machine into the location that Outlook is expecting. You can find the location & file name the same way on the new machine.

If you need more help, let me know. Also, Google is you friend (and always available when you are available) if you have questions/problems. Copying/moving Outlook PST files is straight forward and a common topic within Google. I've done it many times.

Good luck.

P.S. The above assumes you are using Outlook & not Outlook Express (different programs). If you are using Outlook Express. I'm sure you can still do what you need but it will be different & I haven't done it.
 
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That's what I'm used to, but this machine isn't doing it. It just puts a short cut to the files on the new external drive.

Best,

Dave

You may have to hold down the contrl key to copy, depends on where it is going whether it copies or make a short cut. By the way you may want to think about partitioning your drive. C drive will be the operating system, D, programs, E, files, Once you save something to E it will always save it there. All your programs get installed to D. Now if you crash just reinstall windows on C. You can totally format C without affecting the other parts of the drive. I use two drives. One drive is operating sys the other holds all other info. The chances of the other drive failing are very remote, after 15 years it has not failed me yet. Although I upgrade every 5 years or so.

Dan
 
I don't know if Outlook data is stored in the same place as Outlook Express but as address data and the actual email data files created by Outlook Express, I have those backed up daily.

For OE, the directory string is:

Address Book: C:\Documents and Settings\Insert User Name\Application Data\Microsoft\Address Book

Obviously, use the applicable user name. The Address files are within the Address Book folder at the end of the string, one labeled as the user name with the icon appearing as a book and the other labeled as "username.wab~".

Email Data Files: C:\Documents and Settings\Insert User Name\Local Settings\Application Data\Identities\Hex Numbered Folder\Microsoft\Outlook Express

Again, use the appropriate user name. In the "Identities" folder is a folder labeled as a Hexadecimal number. It always stands by itself. The Outlook Express folder contains all the email data files which will be labeled like the folders and subfolder in you may have set up in Outlook.

Before copying folders to a new computer, be sure to open Outlook and set up a dummy contact. This will establish an existing set of folder files in the second string above and an address book file giving you the exact name the old file must be renamed to should there be a difference.

I prefer this over exporting an address book and importing one. I have about 150 contacts in my address book and the file is only about 260k; pretty small for a part of a daily backup with the latest changes always saved.

As a general rule, I back up the following daily:
My Documents
Desktop -I'm always downloading something to there and not yet sorted it elsewhere!
Address Book
Outlook Data Files
Favorites (IE or Firefox)
Google -The "Auto-fill" data used in Google Toolbar
IE Spell -Save the added dictionary for all those extra words collected on POA!

I've done this about a dozen times over the last four years. It works great every time I reload an OS or move to a new computer.
 
The default location for the Outlook PST file is:

C:\Documents and Settings\<user>\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook

Outlook has an export function that usually works. You can export to a .pst file and import it on the new computer, but I've actually had more consistent success exporting and importing using a .csv file.

Although I must say, I can't think of any reason why I'd want to use Outlook, anyway, if all she's using it for is email. There are much better email clients out there...

But that's neither here nor there. If she wants to use Outlook, the "official" way is to export the .pst file.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/287070

The "unofficial" way that I find usually works if the official method fails is to export as a .csv file, and then import the .csv file on the new computer.

Rich



 
Got that done; crazy time getting the compute to see the internet cable connection. Long story short, a auto load program Dell had installed to make things simple blocked the connection. After over an hour on line with tech support, we located it, eliminated it and now I'm on like. Couple more pesky things and I should be there!!

Thanks so much for all the advise. Now, I need to find the favorites file for Explorer and get it over here (wiping brow as I sweat).

Best,

Dave
 
Got that done; crazy time getting the compute to see the internet cable connection. Long story short, a auto load program Dell had installed to make things simple blocked the connection. After over an hour on line with tech support, we located it, eliminated it and now I'm on like. Couple more pesky things and I should be there!!

Thanks so much for all the advise. Now, I need to find the favorites file for Explorer and get it over here (wiping brow as I sweat).

Best,

Dave

You're welcome.

C:\Documents and Settings\[User Account]\Favorites

It's a folder, not a file. The icon is a star.

(That's the default location. It's rare that it would be found elsewhere.)

Rich
 
Those are just shortcuts (or symbolic links, if you prefer).

A Windows shortcut is nothing like a symbolic link. If this were the case he wouldn't be having this problem. Personally I have always wondered WTF Microsoft was thinking with their "shortcut" method.
 
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