Need advice from military rotary wing veteran pilot or aircrew

B

Bolwinkle

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
4
Display Name
Display name:
Bolwinkle
I am an Air Assault Trooper, a Paratrooper, a Jumpmaster and a Parachute Rigger. The following is an excerpt from FM 57-220 Airborne Operations Field Manual in regards to a "hung" or "towed" parachutist on a rotary wing aircraft.:

"The JM notifies the pilot that a parachutist is being towed. The JM recovers and stores all​
other deployed static lines and deployment bags. The pilot slowly descends to the DZ or​
other appropriate site and brings the aircraft to a hover. The JM (Jumpmaster) unhooks the towed​
parachutist's static line, deplanes, and frees the towed parachutist."

My experience with Sling Load Operations makes me aware that I must ground the electrostatic charge before touching the aircraft hook to connect sling. My experience with STABO, SPIE, Fast Rope and Rappel Operations from rotary wing aircraft makes me aware that the ropes must contact the ground to discharge the electrostatic charge before touching the rope and before my body contacts the ground.

In the case of a towed parachutist from rotary wing aircraft, with the above quoted procedures in mind, with the aircraft at a hover, wouldn't it still be necessary to ground the electrostatic charge before the jumper or jumpmaster contacts the ground? Is there a safety message regarding this? Where can I find it?

Thanks
Bolwinkle
 
I'm trying to find my old TACSOP on para drops. I'm sure there's something in there on hung jumpers. Ill see what I can find on it. Never did get to fly any jumpers. We had plenty of cool tasks in our SOP that we never got to do.

I can tell you the only part of the UH-60 training manual that even mentions static buildup and grounding, falls under sling loads. Never once heard of anyone getting shocked hooking up a load on a 60 while not using the wand. Suppose to use it but a lot of people didn't. I've done maybe a dozen hookups without the wand and never shocked as well. If the aircraft just lifted off, it won't build up much static. We had guidance saying to key the FM1 radio a couple of times and it'll discharge the static as well. Not sure if that made a difference or not.

I really wouldn't think a dry static jump line or rope would have much static discharge if any. I know you guys are suppose to let the ropes hit the ground first though. Just never heard of it being a problem. Now, hoist? I've heard of guys having their filling blown out for not ground the cable first!
 
Thanks Mcly.

I'm interested in your TACSOP procedure for hung or towed parachutist, if you find it.
 
Well I found my old garrison SOP but not my TACSOP. I made some "calls" to old friends. Should hear something back soon.

Just curious though, don't you as the JM have the option to cut away the towed jumper in a helo?
 
I've had some pretty good shocks hooking up external loads and I've had a few PO'd chaplains who said they got a shock when being hoisted down to small boy decks for Sunday services. Its a real jolt. But, I've never heard of anyone being seriously injured from it.

If your HAC has decided to lower the hung jumper to the deck from a hover, I'm guessing a good shock is probably the least of the guy's trouble. And, hopefully there's someone on the deck who's gonna be there to grab him before he touches. So, it'll probably be that guy that gets the shock.
 
Ah, this brings back memories of Air Assault School at Ft Campbell back in 1983. That was the last time that I did any sling loading but I do recall the grounding probe. Fun stuff!
 
Didn't the amount of static charge buildup, hence the shock, depend on atmospherics, hover time etc?
You were supposed to use the wand but if the air was "wet" and it was a quick hover I don't think the shock would build up to bad. But it's been 2 decades of me, so....

Even if he did get shocked that sure beets getting drug along at 130kts banging into the side of a 130. That happened to a friend of mine. Stuck for about a 30sec til the nylon strap let go.
 
ChemGuy said:
Didn't the amount of static charge buildup, hence the shock, depend on atmospherics, hover time etc?
You were supposed to use the wand but if the air was "wet" and it was a quick hover I don't think the shock would build up to bad. But it's been 2 decades of me, so....

Even if he did get shocked that sure beets getting drug along at 130kts banging into the side of a 130. That happened to a friend of mine. Stuck for about a 30sec til the nylon strap let go.
Click to expand...

Depends on type aircraft as well. CH-47s are know for static buildup. I've always observed them using the wand. Occasionally they don't. :wink2:
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 41
On the other hand, there have been times in my life when I tried to use my wand that I got a lot of static. :D
 
I would think you would if you could...but not life threatening a UH-1 would shock you but a 47 seemed like it would stun you if you did not get the load hooked up fast after the probe...I did some time with the AA school when there was one at Rucker, just like carpet cold dry air the worst...then again I was a gun guy all my career so nothing in the SOP for us...although my best aviation pic comes out of a UH-60 during jump operations...Jumper is not American...you might like it.
 

Attachments

  • jumper.jpg
    jumper.jpg
    70.1 KB · Views: 43
Not a Army rotary pilot but have the same ratings as you (plus Pathfinder). I've also dealt with 2 towed jumpers (both foreign jumpers BTW). Both my experiences were on UH1's and the jumper got hung up on the skid (one leg strap, one lowering line). The leg strap guy we just slowed down and pulled him off. The lowering line we did as the manual described and set him down. Towed by the static line is extremely rare, almost unheard of.

Been shocked a couple times, The CH47 will knock you off the load, the others are just a wake-up call. Agree with PP it is the least your problems.

The real risk is if they deploy the reserve while still attached. That's scary. I must say towed jumpers are most stressful events in the business.
 
I'm a -47 FE, and our procedure is that it's up to the JM as to either cut them loose or treat the towed jumper as an unwilling STABO participant and slow down and lower them to the ground. Nothing we can do about grounding until I get the aft gear on the ground, and I'd bet nobody on the DZ has a wand. On our birds we have external rescue hoists and occasionally we shock the guys if they grab the hook before it touches the ground. We jacked up guys even when the hook touched the ground first and then they grabbed it. A lot depends on atmospherics.

I'm curious as to the part about ropes and such dissipating a static charge, but maybe it does. I've done a lot of FRIES work and haven't seen anybody get zapped. Broken ankles though, I've seen a bunch!

I'd recommend asking the supporting unit for a printed copy of the paradrop task out of their Aircrew Training Manual. It should give you some insight on what is required of the aircrew and JM to include emergency procedures. Be advised that procedures will be different between airframes, so get a copy if possible for each airframe you are jumping out of.
 
Thanks guys. Referenced from JM proponent at Benning (FM) on FIXED WING AC, the JM can decide to cut the jumper away based on certain criteria, there is a decision-making process that is spelled out and specific. However, all that is mentioned of towed parachutist for rotary wing is stated in the original post in quotes. It's still too vague. "descend to the DZ and hover". How high? Let the jumper come to the ground? Till the jumper is just above the ground? When is that height achieved? How is that communicated to the pilot? Who's responsible to communicate that to the pilot? The quoted FM in my post is from Marine Corps. The Army FM is almost identical, but leaves the part out about the JM unhooking the parachutist's static line and deplaning. Currently the Marine Corps has added also discharging the electrostatic charge before touching or freeing the towed parachutist based on a Navy Safety Center message I haven't yet seen. The AF Pararescue policy is to always recover the parachutist back into the AC regardless of circumstances, with the intent of not endangering the mission by compromising it, by littering the area with a stray jumper. I have never had to deal with it or met someone who has and my concern was safety for the Soldiers involved in the actions prescribed. I've seen a Soldier lose his hand during CH47 sling load operations and have always been drilled to ground the lines before all suspended rope operations, but the feedback I'm getting here from experienced people is that the discharge is negligible and much less of a risk than the jumper's alternatives; the least of his worries.
Thanks a lot everyone. Great input.
 
All the aircrew checklists and briefs, TACSOPs, etc. that I've been able to review have all pretty much said the same thing as quoted in the original post and just as vague.
 
I think sometimes they make it deliberately vague to give you some leeway to work it out, instead of tying your hands to a procedure that may endanger all parties. A good brief goes a long way. If I had a towed jumper, I would talk it out with my JM (always had one on ICS with us) and go from there. I'd be the one making the calls to the pilots as for either lowering them or doing a cutaway. If you as the JM elect to not do a cutaway, I'd make the calls to the pilots per a STABO recovery to the ground. Static discharge be damned I want to get that soldier on the ground, because they just had one hell of a ride.
 
Flymy47 said:
I'm a -47 FE,
Click to expand...

You sir are a brave man.:D

those 'things" are the only AC I was every really really really happy to jump from.

more jerking, bouncing, jumping, vibrating than a room full of 5yo full of sugar and caffeine.
 
50 years can't be wrong. We are flying the DC-3 of helicopters! Honestly though it's a good aircraft, tough as hell, and can take a lot of battle damage. You do have to spend some time to get them tracked smooth. First time I saw one in a book I thought it was the ugliest helo I'd ever seen. First time I saw one in the hangar, I changed my tune. My first flight in one and I was addicted! Don't be fooled by the size, in the right hands that thing can move with a quickness.
 
For such an ugly aircraft, they are quick! :lol:
 
Just two dipsty dumster's with palm trees a having sex...but we could never keep up with them...
 
Yeah, yeah "double headed death bus" and all that, but my favorite description of the Chinook is "2 Huey's fighting over who's going to kill the crew!"
 
Flymy47 said:
Yeah, yeah "double headed death bus" and all that, but my favorite description of the Chinook is "2 Huey's fighting over who's going to kill the crew!"
Click to expand...

Lol.
Why disprespect a Huey by comparing to that ugly egg beater?:D

Going off the ramp off a 47 at 1500' is hella fun though. Beats riding the back of a 130 for an hour while the Air Force uses a ft Bragg map to find a 10sq mile DZ.
 
Nothing fun about being knee to knee on a -130 for any amount of time.
 
Well, doesn't give you much but this is from the 101st CAB SOP:


38-7. Emergency Actions:
a. Below 1,500 feet AGL and an in-flight emergency occurs, the PC directs the jumpers to land with the aircraft. The jumpmaster ensures jumpers are seated with seatbelts secured. The jumpmaster also ensures deactivation of all parachute automatic opening devices. b. Above 1,500 feet AGL and an in –flight emergency occurs, the PC directs the jumpers to bail out of the aircraft, the jumpmaster ensures an orderly exit of all jumpers. c. The following contingencies will be pre-coordinated with the jumpmaster. (1) Towed or hung jumper. (2) Inadvertent deployed parachute in the aircraft. d. Lost communications: (1) Ensure static lines remain secured to the anchoring device until the aircraft has landed. If recovery of the static lines is impossible, execute a roll on landing to avoid entangling the static lines in the rotor system. (2) The PC may cease all operations if he determines safety and control may be compromised.
 
That sounds very similar to what we brief as well.
 
My last flight in a Chinook was skydiving over the Misari drop zone while with the Camp Humphrey Sport Parachute Club in South Korea. It made a great jump platform.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top