Need a solid instrument syllabus

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Jdm, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Can someone please recommend a good instrument rating syllabus to help me stay on track with a new instrument student? I’ve been out of the GA instructor business for a while and not exactly sure what’s available these days. I could shoot from the hip but prefer to keep it structured for the most part. I’m still current and active in GA. Also teach in a jet training capacity for a major airline as my full time job. Just haven’t taken on a new instrument student in a very long time.
    This student will be learning in a well equipped Cessna single. Here’s a rundown of the panel avionics that we’ll be using:
    GTN 650Xi
    G5 stack
    GI-275
    GNC 255
    GMA 345
    GTX 345
    Any resource advice related to the above would be greatly appreciated. I hope to prepare myself and the student as well as possible.


    Thanks.
     
  2. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Please to explain why the stuff in the panel changes the syllabus?
    While we're at it, what's a "G5 stack"?

    [Ravioli runs to hide while psuedo-CFIIs and preferably actual CFII chime in]
     
  3. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    “Resource advice” related to the Garmin equipment listed.... head over to Garmin’s website and download the free to have information manuals for each bit of equipment
     
  4. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Well, if you can take Mexico, China, India, Brazil, and South Africa...... layer them on top of one another like you would a 5-layer tostada.....
     
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  5. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Learning TAA avionics is a formidable task for the IR. (Paul, just a lowly instrument rated pilot, whose btdt)
     
  6. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    If you can find an OLD copy of the Instrument Flying Handbook, it had a pretty decent syllabus in the back. It would have to be modified a bit for the additional approach types with GPS, but the TAA equipment shouldn’t require significant changes to the syllabus. Obviously “partial panel” means something different, but it’s still “partial panel”.

    edit...there’s a copy available here
    https://archive.org/search.php?query=Instrument flying handbook
    with the syllabus starting on page 254 of the file.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  7. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    No double I's yet... and perhaps the guy should learn his panel first and then go learn Instrument flying. Someone will probably come along to talk about how the main difference would be learning a good scan.

    But, for @PaulS - I don't think that the listed equipment constitutes a TAA since there is no PFD. There have been a few threads about whether one or two G5's equals a compliant PFD. I don't think it was ever concluded that it does.

    And, lest we forget, TAA is only important for Commercial Training to excuse the need for complex.
     
  8. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Because of its capabilities obviously. In search of a syllabus that addresses the full potential of modern GA equipment.

    2 vs a single g5. Difference being reversionary functionality and some unique capabilities.
     
  9. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thank you. We’ve done that and gone through most of it together.
     
  10. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thank you. I’ll check it it out
     
  11. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I would say the syllabus doesn’t really need to address the technology. Reference to those things is made in the current Instrument Flying Handbook and the Advanced Avionics Handbook, both of which are available for free on the FAA website, of course. It should mesh pretty seamlessly into the syllabus.

    I’d also strongly recommend having you and your student go through the “essential skills checklist” in the back of the Advanced Avionics Handbook. It’s a really good gouge for how well he knows the system.
    https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol...advanced_avionics_handbook/media/aah_back.pdf
     
  12. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    sounds like you're asking "how do I use these here new gizmos and gadgets". garmin should have manuals u can download so u can learn the technology.
     
  13. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Excellent advice. Definitely will do this. Thank you.
     
  14. TommyG

    TommyG Pattern Altitude

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    Gotta make sure the student is fully knowledgeable and comfortable using this equipment before even trying to teach instruments.
     
  15. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Sounds like a good time for an... authentic assessment!!!
     
  16. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes, you are probably correct about the TAA, but I got my instrument in a TAA aircraft (Cirrus perspective +) and I was definitely evaluated on my ability to use all the technology that was in the aircraft to fly on instruments. The DPE told me afterwards if you bring an aircraft with technology, you are expected to demonstrate you know how to use it.
     
  17. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'll file that under "no **** Sherlock". Same was true for the PPL.

    My point, which still has gone missed, is the guy needs to know his panel to fly it VFR. If he doesn't he should learn that some other time than with a double-I charging for the time.

    You think CFII's know every navigator and tailor their lesson plans.

    C'mon.
     
  18. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you think using a panel vfr and using it for ifr is the same, then you must be a fricken genius, I bow to your superiority.
     
  19. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I know all of the functions every instrument in my panel. That's not hard to do. Maybe people are D->Destination and follow the magenta line, but that's just plain dumb.

    Learning how to fly IFR is a different story, hence the CFI has to have a second cert to teach us about our second cert, but that has nothing to do with mastering the installed equipment you are flying behind.

    And, oh by the way, I am a fricken genius. Just ask my Pomeranian.
     
  20. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Wow
     
  21. sarangan

    sarangan Cleared for Takeoff

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    You might be treating this as if you are training an experienced pilot for a new platform. The equipment list has nothing to do with the basic instrument skills.
     
  22. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thank you, but I’m not looking for help teaching basic instrument skills. I’m looking for a modern syllabus that covers advanced instrument training such as the ones listed. I think MauleSkinner has steered me toward the material needed. The advanced avionics handbook along with the essential skills checklist should be adequate when used as supplements to the instrument flying handbook.
     
  23. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Snark gets snark, but I can't argue with a dog's judgement, lol.

    We are going to disagree on this. Not sure if you are IFR rated or not or a CFII, but whatever.

    A typical VFR pilot who knows his avionics is not going to understand how to load and fly an approach. He will not understand the intricacies of the avionics and how it can bite you in the butt if you don't know what to watch for. And he will certainly not have mastered flying instruments behind avionics listed by the OP unless he has been trained how to do it. I still get caught once in a while and I consider myself to have mastered my avionics for IFR.
     
  24. TommyG

    TommyG Pattern Altitude

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    VFR pilots don’t not know what SUSP means. Not know what that is and when to press it, can be a big problem.
     
  25. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    SUSP?????!!


    Just kidding, lol.
     
  26. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Where I think we disagree is that even a Pomeranian-grade genius can master loading and activating flight plans including departures and approaches on their own navigator. They can also master all the buttons and features of their PFD, G5, HSI or whatever have you.

    Where we agree is that a CFII is essential for the "and fly" portion, to include tips/tricks/gotchas.

    But to the thread topic -- I'll never be convinced that an IFR training syllabus need, nor should, be panel specific. Nor should a VFR syllabus be panel specific.
     
  27. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm not disputing that a VFR pilot can figure out how to load procedures, but mastering loading and mastering using are two different things, that's my point.

    I learned in a TAA aircraft. I would never jump into a 172 with a six pack and attempt to fly under instruments. I would find a CFII, spend the time to learn the avionics, and go from there.

    Of course then there's the subject of would I fly hard IFR without an autopilot? That's a discussion for another thread, and would certainly be entertaining.

    Pomeranians are cool dogs.
     
  28. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Especially this one:
    IMG_0001.JPEG

    Oh, and TAA panels are also really kewl. Like this one:
    panel.jpg
     
  29. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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  30. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I belong to the Doggie, but the panel belongs to me. (not sure which you were asking about)
     
  31. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I figured the dog was yours, but not sure about the airplane, nice ride.
     
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