NADA and KBB worthless

Dean

Dean

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Dean
I recently got in the car buying mood and went shopping. Before I went I checked NADA and KBB to see what to expect when it came time for the dreaded appraisal of my trade. My trade is a one owner 2010 Hemi Charger with 88500 miles, Its been my wife's daily driver. NADA said clean trade was $15K and rough trade $12k. So I was expecting something in the middle. I got offered $6500! When I ask why such a low figure their answer was, that's what they are bringing at auction. So when I brought up the book prices I was told that they just use the book to price their cars. What a bunch of B.S.
 
Dean said:
I recently got in the car buying mood and went shopping. Before I went I checked NADA and KBB to see what to expect when it came time for the dreaded appraisal of my trade. My trade is a one owner 2010 Hemi Charger with 88500 miles, Its been my wife's daily driver. NADA said clean trade was $15K and rough trade $12k. So I was expecting something in the middle. I got offered $6500! When I ask why such a low figure their answer was, that's what they are bringing at auction. So when I brought up the book prices I was told that they just use the book to price their cars. What a bunch of B.S.
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The books are a little bit of BS, but the dealer appraising your car is a thief. :mad2: Call around, go to a CarMax, get other appraisals.
 
N747JB said:
The books are a little bit of BS, but the dealer appraising your car is a thief. :mad2: Call around, go to a CarMax, get other appraisals.
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Yeah, even black book has your car at $14.5k average trade, and most dealers go by black book.

They didn't want your business and priced it accordingly.
 
Trade low sell high,make a healthy profit on both.
 
Check your local Craigslist for similar vehicles, it's a much better indication.
 
KBB told me that my 1999 Jeep Wrangler had a trade-in value of about $4400 last year when I bought the Ford Escape. The Ford dealer offered me $800 for it. I still have the Jeep.
 
Ghery said:
KBB told me that my 1999 Jeep Wrangler had a trade-in value of about $4400 last year when I bought the Ford Escape. The Ford dealer offered me $800 for it. I still have the Jeep.
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Wranglers almost always sell a bit over book (especially with a lift or ARB bumper).
 
I've had many people call up to see if I would purchase their car/truck after it's been wrecked and ask for the KBB "rough" price.

Yeah, right...

Supply/demand really applies to my business. If I have low or no demand for the parts, it's not worth investing big into the supply your vehicle represents.

On the flip side, if it's an 09 F250SD 4x4 with a 6.4L, crew cab with good doors and box, hit in the front, I'll offer a very healthy bid for it.
 
Or Edmunds.com does all right
 
I've had better luck financially skipping the trade in, getting their best price, and then selling the used vehicle privately.
 
Mike can confirm this, but the used car department of most (every?) dealer is a separate profit center. IMHO people who trade in a car to the dealer are paying a huge penalty for the convenience of not having to sell on their own....

-Skip
 
What kind of vehicle were you looking to trade it in on?
 
A 2010 with 88,000 miles? You haven't even broken that thing in yet. ;) Did momma go with you? I smell a dealer who knew momma wanted a new car and would work on you at home later even if he didn't deal the deal. ;)
 
I ran a car I am going to sell though Edmunds, it came up saying something like $4500 dealer retail- and it had links to the exact year and model of the car for sale now, at CarMax, for $7600 to $10,900. Go figger.
 
Ijust got back to my desk, a 2010 base Charger, 88K miles has an average Black Book of $11,250.00, NADA average trade of 10,075.00 KBB good trade in $9086.00. This is a BASE Charger, 2.7 and I added for leather. I wasn't sure the designation for the HEMI, so I didn't enter it into the system, if I had the VIN I could give you better info. If you want to PM me that I will be glad to give you my opinion. :D
These values are vastly different, so that makes it tough sometimes to appraise a car properly, BUT if the car is nice, these guys didn't make that big of a mistake on the appraisal.:rolleyes:
 
Not the OP, but the Charger with a hemi is an RT. My wife is on her second. Yes, my wife felt that her car was "worn out" at 120,000 miles and 6 years. :mad2: She's the reason why N747JB can afford a nice plane.


N747JB said:
Ijust got back to my desk, a 2010 base Charger, 88K miles has an average Black Book of $11,250.00, NADA average trade of 10,075.00 KBB good trade in $9086.00. This is a BASE Charger, 2.7 and I added for leather. I wasn't sure the designation for the HEMI, so I didn't enter it into the system, if I had the VIN I could give you better info. If you want to PM me that I will be glad to give you my opinion. :D
These values are vastly different, so that makes it tough sometimes to appraise a car properly, BUT if the car is nice, these guys didn't make that big of a mistake on the appraisal.:rolleyes:
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Here is how I handle car purchases:

New: My offer is Invoice for for the new car - you pay me Black Book Trade in for my car. you have 5 minutes. If you counter offer I walk out and find someone who will take that deal.

Used: I"ll pay you [lower of] asking price or KBB private party and you pay me KBB trade in for my car. Thats a non-negotiable offer. Again, you have 5 minutes and a counter is a rejectiion and I walk.

I have had so many salesmen and dealers as clients that the above is something that is a serious offer that no reasonable dealer will turn down - and they will make money on both ends. If all they do is wholesale trades and make zero effort - then they'll never take the offer and I don''t have to worry about it.

Invoice is a guaranteed profit for them - and the used car books are reasonable as well for me.

I have done this since 1993 when it was strategy given me by a dealer client - and in every single case has resulted in a successful deal or a walkout and phone call back the next day from the salesman offering to take the deal. At that point, you then press and ask them what they are going to give you for the inconvenience of having to come back . . . . that usually results in a couple hundred dollars more.
 
I've never seen a straight up trade value that was close to book value. They can pad it when negotiating a new car sale, but the last couple times they've been pretty low. I can understand in a sense. You're paying for convenience, and they have to make money on the transaction. Anyway, I can sell the car for a little less and still be way ahead of what the dealer offers.
 
I honestly don't know Dodge trim levels, that's why I used a base Charger, I did go back and use the R/T trim, same mileage, with leather, no adds and this is what my appraisal tool shows:
Average Black Book: $16,650.00
NADA average trade: $16,025.00
KBB average trade in: $13,329.00
Tell your wife I appreciate here buying cars every few years, but it would help me if she was buying them from me! :D
jonnyjetprop said:
Not the OP, but the Charger with a hemi is an RT. My wife is on her second. Yes, my wife felt that her car was "worn out" at 120,000 miles and 6 years. :mad2: She's the reason why N747JB can afford a nice plane.
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comanchepilot said:
New: My offer is Invoice for for the new car -
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How do you know what real invoice is? Sometimes it's hard to tell the bull rom the chat. I'm lucky in that my FIL retired from Ford and I buy on the A plan. They have to show me the real invoice showing real numbers. A-plan price is usually dealer invoice minus holdback.
 
Dean said:
I recently got in the car buying mood and went shopping. Before I went I checked NADA and KBB to see what to expect when it came time for the dreaded appraisal of my trade. My trade is a one owner 2010 Hemi Charger with 88500 miles, Its been my wife's daily driver. NADA said clean trade was $15K and rough trade $12k. So I was expecting something in the middle. I got offered $6500! When I ask why such a low figure their answer was, that's what they are bringing at auction. So when I brought up the book prices I was told that they just use the book to price their cars. What a bunch of B.S.
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Get hold of the Black Book, that is the wholesale price guide developed at the auctions and is what everyone at them carries.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I've had many people call up to see if I would purchase their car/truck after it's been wrecked and ask for the KBB "rough" price.

Yeah, right...

Supply/demand really applies to my business. If I have low or no demand for the parts, it's not worth investing big into the supply your vehicle represents.

On the flip side, if it's an 09 F250SD 4x4 with a 6.4L, crew cab with good doors and box, hit in the front, I'll offer a very healthy bid for it.
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Hmmm, I'm looking at one of those in the parking lot, it's a 4 door even and looks perfect. How much you give me for it, and do you need a title?
 
comanchepilot said:
Here is how I handle car purchases:

New: My offer is Invoice for for the new car - you pay me Black Book Trade in for my car. you have 5 minutes. If you counter offer I walk out and find someone who will take that deal.

Used: I"ll pay you [lower of] asking price or KBB private party and you pay me KBB trade in for my car. Thats a non-negotiable offer. Again, you have 5 minutes and a counter is a rejectiion and I walk.

I have had so many salesmen and dealers as clients that the above is something that is a serious offer that no reasonable dealer will turn down - and they will make money on both ends. If all they do is wholesale trades and make zero effort - then they'll never take the offer and I don''t have to worry about it.

Invoice is a guaranteed profit for them - and the used car books are reasonable as well for me.

I have done this since 1993 when it was strategy given me by a dealer client - and in every single case has resulted in a successful deal or a walkout and phone call back the next day from the salesman offering to take the deal. At that point, you then press and ask them what they are going to give you for the inconvenience of having to come back . . . . that usually results in a couple hundred dollars more.
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Wow, that's a lot of work, I just go on Craig's list and type "$1200" into the "Max Price" filter and see what hits.:D
 
N747JB said:
Ijust got back to my desk, a 2010 base Charger, 88K miles has an average Black Book of $11,250.00, NADA average trade of 10,075.00 KBB good trade in $9086.00. This is a BASE Charger, 2.7 and I added for leather. I wasn't sure the designation for the HEMI, so I didn't enter it into the system, if I had the VIN I could give you better info. If you want to PM me that I will be glad to give you my opinion. :D
These values are vastly different, so that makes it tough sometimes to appraise a car properly, BUT if the car is nice, these guys didn't make that big of a mistake on the appraisal.:rolleyes:
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$3K isn't "that big of a mistake"? LOL. Or are you not talking about the offer he got in the $6K range?
 
denverpilot said:
$3K isn't "that big of a mistake"? LOL. Or are you not talking about the offer he got in the $6K range?
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I'm saying they didn't make a mistake, they know what the car is worth, they just low-balled him. ;)
The business has changed a lot since I started in the early 80's. The old way of negotiating was:
Sticker - trade allowance= difference usually there was an OVER allowance on the trade in, that was the discount. Your car is worth $5,000.00 ACV or actual cash value, we allowed you $6,000.00 for a $1000.00 discount.
NOW it's the lowest possible low ball price we can legally advertise including rebates that you may or may not qualify for - trade allowance which is now usually LESS than ACV = difference. The difference is still what you pay, the game is the same, the numbers are just worked differently. ;)
Now the guys in the OP's first post were way more aggressive at under allowing than most people I have seen, but if a certain % of people fall for it, they win.
Personally, we try to price realistically and give fair trade ins, we aren't the highest volume guys in town, but our customers love us. :D
My best customers are like people like the OP that get blown out of some of the big chain stores and are pleasantly surprised at how they are treated here. :D
 
My last trade, the gave me the 'very good condition' value on Edmunds. Which was $1500 higher than KBB. I was surprised, usually they try to low ball it.
 
us AAirways said:
My last trade, the gave me the 'very good condition' value on Edmunds. Which was $1500 higher than KBB. I was surprised, usually they try to low ball it.
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You over paid for the new car then lol, there's more than one way to massage the numbers to make money.
 
I've worked "reasonable" deals with dealerships. You just have to know the numbers long before you walk in the door and know that everyone has to get paid, even if just a little bit. If you don't, you'll get played. Guaranteed.
 
Used values: search ebay completed items or cargraph.com (graphs craigslist).

I've never bought a used car at a dealer. Then again, I've never bought a used car worth more than $5k.
 
The lower end stuff is best purchased off Craigslist.:D We sell a few select trade ins that fall into the under $6,000 price range, but they are few and far between, most of those cars go to wholesalers. It's not worth the risk of selling these cars for me. They are as-is, but if it breaks down we, as a new car dealership are expected to fix it, and we do. So I try to make sure it's a good one before we put it on the lot, even then, we end up repairing these 100,000 mile beauties.:dunno:

pj500 said:
Used values: search ebay completed items or cargraph.com (graphs craigslist).

I've never bought a used car at a dealer. Then again, I've never bought a used car worth more than $5k.
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There is a much larger profit margin in used cars than new cars these days.
 
Dean said:
I recently got in the car buying mood and went shopping. Before I went I checked NADA and KBB to see what to expect when it came time for the dreaded appraisal of my trade. My trade is a one owner 2010 Hemi Charger with 88500 miles, Its been my wife's daily driver. NADA said clean trade was $15K and rough trade $12k. So I was expecting something in the middle. I got offered $6500! When I ask why such a low figure their answer was, that's what they are bringing at auction. So when I brought up the book prices I was told that they just use the book to price their cars. What a bunch of B.S.
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You say the books are worthless, but if they kept you from getting ripped off then I'd say the have proven themselves quite valuable.
 
Well I found a dealer that was willing to work with me and gave me what I wanted. It would have been nice to sell them out right, but my job has me gone all the time which made that impossible.
 
I buy a new car about once a decade, and have never traded in a car. Usually my last car has over 150K miles and was given to the latest family teenager as a first driver/learn maintenance vehicle.

I've also fixed up and flipped a couple of beat up Toyotas and sold them on Craigslist, so I have some exposure to selling direct to the colorful CL public.

But I've never traded in a car at a dealer.

Now I have a car that still has I think some real value (2012 Ford Focus, ~50K miles) that I might want to trade for a Camry or Fusion. It would be really nice to not have to deal with Craigslist buyers.

When buying new I usually start with the Costco price and see if they can beat that. I always either have cash or have preapproved credit from my credit union, so I don't want to discuss payments.

To me it seems like if you mix a trade-in with the price of the new car you've created a two variable problem with both variables unknown to the customer.

What do you experienced car buyers and sellers think of my straegery of arriving at a cash price and then saying, 'oh by the way Mr Dealer, what will you give me for my Focus as a trade-in'?
 
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Typically it's become like two transactions, the sale of the new car and the value of the used car. The old days of starting at sticker and then over allowing for the trade in is long gone. :D In some cases there is an additional rebate if you trade a 1996 or newer vehicle, so it may make even more sense to trade. :D

JimNtexas said:
I buy a new car about once a decade, and have never traded in a car. Usually my last car has over 150K miles and was given to the latest family teenager as a first driver/learn maintenance vehicle.

I've also fixed up and flipped a couple of beat up Toyotas and sold them on Craigslist, so I have some exposure to selling direct to the colorful CL public.

But I've never traded in a car at a dealer.

Now I have a car that still has I think some real value (2012 Ford Focus, ~50K miles) that I might want to trade for a Camry or Fusion. It would be really nice to not have to deal with Craigslist buyers.

When buying new I usually start with the Costco price and see if they can beat that. I always either have cash or have preapproved credit from my credit union, so I don't want to discuss payments.

To me it seems like if you mix a trade-in with the price of the new car you've created a two variable problem with both variables unknown to the customer.

What do you experienced car buyers and sellers think of my straegery of arriving at a cash price and then saying, 'oh by the way Mr Dealer, what will you give me for my Focus as a trade-in'?
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