NA: Yard Control Devices

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
21,872
Location
west Texas
Display Name
Dave Taylor
Home Airfield
KMRF
So my 15 yo Snapper Rider -aka 'collection of replacement parts' is dying again. Always debating; euthanize or CPR? (I posted earlier about acquiring something else)
Anyway a tractor or other device is going to run in the thousands, a new motor for my Rider <1000$. The last new B&S engine lasted 4 years. I just bought all new tires, did a bunch of work on the deck.
PS I am cheap, nuff said (but getting tired of having a perpetual 'project'!
Predict: Will the hydraulic motors fail in the first year of the replacement engine?
 
Snappers have a pretty good following, if you want to get rid of it call some local shops and see if they will offer you anything for it.
 
I love my ZTR...mows a 5' swath at 14 mph. But it definitely wasn't cheap.

If you get a ZTR, I would highly recommend one with pneumatic front tires. The solid ones will beat the hell out of you if the ground's not smooth.
 
Snapper Model?

Maybe try a B&S I&C engine. There are two specs for B&S engines. The I&S is 'industrial and commercial' applications. Much better internals. I have a Bolens rider that is 13 years old, still on the orig engine, and I don't baby it.
 
It is a ZTR, one of the first.

Hmm, "commercial engine".

Tires; ha. I just discarded my last pneumatic tire for solids because of all the mesquite & cactus around here. The area they mow is so rough, I can't tell the different (but they will last a lot longer).
 
I think the early ZTR came with a Kohler, so that's your problem. Might be able to find a comp engine that will work from B&S. Meh - maybe not, I don't know.
 
docmirror said:
I think the early ZTR came with a Kohler, so that's your problem. Might be able to find a comp engine that will work from B&S. Meh - maybe not, I don't know.
Click to expand...

Mine came with B&S and I replaced it with B&S.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
So my 15 yo Snapper Rider -aka 'collection of replacement parts' is dying again. Always debating; euthanize or CPR? (I posted earlier about acquiring something else)
Anyway a tractor or other device is going to run in the thousands, a new motor for my Rider <1000$. The last new B&S engine lasted 4 years. I just bought all new tires, did a bunch of work on the deck.
PS I am cheap, nuff said (but getting tired of having a perpetual 'project'!
Predict: Will the hydraulic motors fail in the first year of the replacement engine?
Click to expand...

I would re-power....:yes:..
 
The Briggs Intek is not a commercial-duty engine. The Briggs commercial engines are marketed under the Vanguard name, and they seem to have a very good reputation.

Whether it's worth spending the money on a commercial engine is a tough question to answer for a 15 year old mower. If the mower is otherwise in good shape, it may be worth the investment.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
The Briggs Intek is not a commercial-duty engine. The Briggs commercial engines are marketed under the Vanguard name, and they seem to have a very good reputation.

Whether it's worth spending the money on a commercial engine is a tough question to answer for a 15 year old mower. If the mower is otherwise in good shape, it may be worth the investment.


JKG
Click to expand...


Agreed on the Vanguard...

When I moved here 25 years ago I bought a used Ariens Hydrostatic drive lawn tractor.. Came with a 12 HP Kohler, 48" snow blower and a 42" mower deck... First winter and summer it was ok but needed more power.. Shaved the head on my milling machine to bump up the compression..

Ran better for 18 years,, Then decided to throw a rod.. Didn't ventilate the block but I wanted more power... ( yeah , I know, Imagine FBH wanting more power...:yes::);)..

So I bought a new one of these.

http://www.brandnewengines.com/386447-3079.aspx.

Machined a custom adaptor motor mount plate so it lined up with the rear mounted Hydraulic pump, a custom drive shaft coupler, rewired it, had to fire up the plasma cutter to notch the frame rail so the V- motor would fit..

Works perfectly, cuts grass like no tomorrow and throws snow a LONG way..

Even painted it Orange to match my V-8 powered plane...;);):)
 
docmirror said:
I didn't say it was.
Click to expand...

The link you posted, for a low-end consumer-grade engine, isn't consistent with your recommendation for an "industrial and commercial" engine. I agree with your general recommendation for a commercial-grade engine, but the Intek is neither an industrial nor commercial grade engine.


JKG
 
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Craigslist? I've seen those little home models go for cheap.
 
When I was mowing the airport at OKH i bought one of these. Great mower, 60" 28 horse power.
 

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Have you considered having a decent small-engine mechanic look at the engine? Most small engine problems can be fixed, B&S parts are easy to get, and those engines are not hard to work on.

Rich
 
Yeah, it has high crankcase pressure and is making blue smoke.
Last tine they said its an aluminum cylinder that cant be worked, no OS rings
But I will look at it.
 
JGoodish said:
The link you posted, for a low-end consumer-grade engine, isn't consistent with your recommendation for an "industrial and commercial" engine. I agree with your general recommendation for a commercial-grade engine, but the Intek is neither an industrial nor commercial grade engine.


JKG
Click to expand...

Well, lets review:

http://www.brandnewengines.com/407777-0990.aspx

Shows this engine to me:
Briggs & Stratton Vertical Engine 22 HP INTEK I/C 1" x 3-5/32" DC Alt #407777-0990

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here is the 22HP consumer engine, NOT I/C:

http://www.brandnewengines.com/40R677-0002.aspx

Wanna catch me up?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Yeah, it has high crankcase pressure and is making blue smoke.
Last tine they said its an aluminum cylinder that cant be worked, no OS rings
But I will look at it.
Click to expand...

Okay... so unless it has a PCV system that's clogged, it's probably getting blow-by. But a quick search revealed dozens of sources for parts. It looks like an entire cylinder head assembly and piston can be had for < $400.00, although a lot depends on the date of manufacture. It looks like there's an over-sized (by 0.02 inches) piston available, as well.

Personally, I prefer fixing things if it's economically feasible. The last small engine that I junked (an old B&S 6.0 HP Quantum) had 21 years on it. I'd get in there and start measuring things to see where the problem is before giving up on it, assuming the rest of the mower is in good shape.

By the way, I did consider rebuilding the old Quantum, but in that particular case the needed parts would have cost almost as much the engine.

Rich
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
Yeah, it has high crankcase pressure and is making blue smoke.
Last tine they said its an aluminum cylinder that cant be worked, no OS rings
But I will look at it.
Click to expand...

Might look at having it bored and sleeved with steel, probably cheaper than a new engine if one is available, might still be if they need to turn one. Advantage is you'll never do it again.
 
docmirror said:
Well, lets review:

http://www.brandnewengines.com/407777-0990.aspx

Shows this engine to me:
Briggs & Stratton Vertical Engine 22 HP INTEK I/C 1" x 3-5/32" DC Alt #407777-0990

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here is the 22HP consumer engine, NOT I/C:

http://www.brandnewengines.com/40R677-0002.aspx

Wanna catch me up?
Click to expand...

I can't speak to the labeling at a third-party seller. I can say again that the Vanguard line are Briggs' commercial-duty engines, and seem to be the only Briggs engines to have a great reputation. Neither of the two engines that you mentioned above appear to have cast iron [lined] cylinders, and they appear to be missing the advanced filtration common on commercial engines. Briggs also provides a much better warranty on the Vanguards.


JKG
 
http://www.brandnewengines.com/407777-0990.aspx


22hp Briggs Intek OHV
1" x 3-5/32" shaft, tapped 7/16" with 1/4" keyway.
Cast iron sleeve,

Bore Type Sleevebore

Crank / Crankcase
CRANKSHAFT NO 795680 (DYNAMICALLY BALANCED)

Air Cleaner
AIR CLEANER, DUAL ELEMENT

I refurb about 3-6 mowers riders per spring. I do this pretty regular. Been here before. <edit; this info is direct from B&S, not the reseller.>
 
Okay... so unless it has a PCV system that's clogged,
Click to expand...
I have run it with the dipstick off and it still puts out blue smoke after 15 mins of running.

But a quick search revealed dozens of sources for parts. It looks like an entire cylinder head assembly and piston can be had for < $400.00, although a lot depends on the date of manufacture. It looks like there's an over-sized (by 0.02 inches) piston available, as well.
Click to expand...

Really? Is this for a:
Currently has a replacement B&S engine: 15.5hp MN 31A677-0146 B1
Code 090210ZA
Build Date 02 09
278664
SN 090210ZA52163
 
Broken ring. Prolly th oil ring. They are brittle, and in a cast sleeve that doesn't run all winter, they can get stuck then crack. It's fixable if you want to do the work.
 
docmirror said:
http://www.brandnewengines.com/407777-0990.aspx


22hp Briggs Intek OHV
1" x 3-5/32" shaft, tapped 7/16" with 1/4" keyway.
Cast iron sleeve,

Bore Type Sleevebore

Crank / Crankcase
CRANKSHAFT NO 795680 (DYNAMICALLY BALANCED)

Air Cleaner
AIR CLEANER, DUAL ELEMENT

I refurb about 3-6 mowers riders per spring. I do this pretty regular. Been here before. <edit; this info is direct from B&S, not the reseller.>
Click to expand...

It may have a cast iron sleeve, as do many engines, but it's still not a commercial engine and Briggs doesn't claim it to be. You seem to have very little experience with commercial power equipment. In fact, if you browse to the Briggs web site and select "Commercial" from the "Engines" menu, you are redirected to Vanguard. I've spent a number of years active in researching, purchasing, and maintaining commercial power equipment.

That's about all I have to say on the topic. Anyone who is interested enough can do the same research and arrive at the same conclusion.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
It may have a cast iron sleeve, as do many engines, but it's still not a commercial engine and Briggs doesn't claim it to be. You seem to have very little experience with commercial power equipment. In fact, if you browse to the Briggs web site and select "Commercial" from the "Engines" menu, you are redirected to Vanguard. I've spent a number of years active in researching, purchasing, and maintaining commercial power equipment.

That's about all I have to say on the topic. Anyone who is interested enough can do the same research and arrive at the same conclusion.


JKG
Click to expand...

Well why don't you do it your way and I do it my way. the word "Vanguard" on a plastic panel makes you happy then go for it. I've shown you where you're wrong, but you just keep on digging. Your conclusions are based on what your internet research tells you to do it's fine by me. The OP has two opinions. I stand by mine. I never said Intek has anything to do with the I/C grade engines, you did. I showed you were the I/C was on the published material, what kind of bore it has, dual air cleaner, balanced crank just like you worried over. I also gave a link to the actual consumer grade engine which is $300 cheaper. Not sure what you want so, go buy an engine labeled 'Vanguard' and be happy.

buh-bye.
 
As someone who runs a small lawncare business I'm all for euthanasia. Put it behind you and upgrade to a new model.
 
I've got a 15HP B&S on a '94 Yard-Man that still fires within 2 revolutions of the crank and only gets a puff of blue smoke on start-up. It's no commercial engine, but I can't complain about the longevity. My father has a 60" BadBoy with the ~25HP B&S Vanguard (Kohler & Kawasakis were options) but he loves it.
 
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