[NA] SUV upgrade from sedan [NA]

[Matthew]

Meh, you don't always have to pull an engine to change plugs. Some vehicles make it easy to access those parts.

(My brother sent me a picture of something he was working in in his shop.)

 

[Matthew]

Actually I just remembered one more gripe on the Subaru. The dome lights have multi-position switches that manage to get moved into the wrong position all the time... or the map lights get left on and since like most modern cars it leaves the lights on for a minute after you close the doors you don't notice and THE LIGHTS STAY ON AND DRAIN THE BATTERY FLAT. I was really shocked that a car made in 2010 allowed that to happen... that's the first car I've seen since the 90s that didn't have an automatic shut-off for everything.

my '13 is the same.

 

[Caramon13]

Thanks everyone, I went with the Subaru Forester, Premium Trim, 2.5L AWD..w/ CVT . Loving it so far. I gotta go get temporary plates for my TLX to move it for inspection and turn in....after driving home the Forester I really don't wanna go back to the Acura honestly heh..

@denverpilot Nate I think I read about your ups and downs with debt so I can understand the "cash or no deal mentality" and nothing new. I'm in the same boat right now. This is a massive step forward, believe it or not. I almost cut my car payment in half with this deal and I'm working on getting out of debt as fast as I can. I overstepped my fiscal bounds getting my ppl, instrument, commercial, buying and selling my plane, etc. What a ride, but man I'm paying for it now. I'm hoping that in the next 3-4 years I'll completely eliminate any debt and be 100% debt free by 2020. That's the plan anyway . Things come up but I have been really strict with sticking to a budget so..its working.

Thanks to everyone else for either validating my opinions or voicing your own valuable insights based on your experiences. I kinda knew it would be a subjective thread, and I gotta say I have NO idea why I skipped over Subaru for consideration in the past. I'm surprised at how good they actually are. The car has UNREAL visibility, no blind spots and includes a great view of the road, decent tech and more than sufficient storage space for camping. All at a price I can live with at the end of the day.

Just for giggles here were the prices I got from the dealers, all included the lease buyout I needed, maybe will help others, maybe not:

Mazda CX-5 - MSRP - 26K - Wanted 3K down, 325/month tax tag, etc...
Honda CR-V - MSRP - 27.5K - Wanted 1.3K down, 427/month tax tag etc...

Subaru Forester - MSRP - 29K - 2999 down, 275/month (includes tax tag, etc).

I'm sure I didn't get the best deal in the world, but the Honda and Mazda deals now just make me sick looking at them.

 

[Matthew]

And during your next major snowfall, toss a snow shovel in the back and take it out to play.

 

[PaulS]

Jeep Grand Cherokee with a hemi. I love mine, 2015 with the 8 speed tranny. I see you've already bought a Subaru, everyone I know who has bought one love them, I hope it treats you well.

 

[Caramon13]

And during your next major snowfall, toss a snow shovel in the back and take it out to play.

Which may be never since I live in FL, but I will endeavor to GO somewhere that HAS snow at some point so I can...that is if I can convince the wife to go where "cold is".

 

[Matthew]

Which may be never since I live in FL, but I will endeavor to GO somewhere that HAS snow at some point so I can...that is if I can convince the wife to go where "cold is".

I know, I saw. Sarasota isn't known for snow. But you can pretend.

 

[denverpilot]

@denverpilot Nate I think I read about your ups and downs with debt so I can understand the "cash or no deal mentality" and nothing new. I'm in the same boat right now. This is a massive step forward, believe it or not. I almost cut my car payment in half with this deal and I'm working on getting out of debt as fast as I can. I overstepped my fiscal bounds getting my ppl, instrument, commercial, buying and selling my plane, etc. What a ride, but man I'm paying for it now. I'm hoping that in the next 3-4 years I'll completely eliminate any debt and be 100% debt free by 2020. That's the plan anyway . Things come up but I have been really strict with sticking to a budget so..its working.

Hey it's all good. I just share what I'd do. What others do is completely up to them. Me no likey owing anyone anything whenever possible. It's just not appealing anymore.

Houses and cars are "reasonable" debts as long as their payments are kept to a "reasonable" percentage of income. Businesses are often also reasonable places to have debt. It's the consumer junk that I'm always really amazed at. Phones, TVs, furniture, stuff like that.

Student loan debt is trickier. Depends on the field and the expected ROI but I never had any and the wife had a pretty low amount but we still didn't pay it off aggressively for a long time. Way too long. Too easy to pretend it's not there.

Congrats on the budget. Whether I believe it or not, I'm not sure, but a recent survey showed that only 10% of Americans had a written budget. If even partially true, it explains a LOT.

 

[James331]

My '13 Outback is the same way. There are people on some of the Outback forums that have cut access panels rather than try to change the bulb the way the manual instructs.

Mine would burn out the right bulb rather frequently, did a HID (low K temp) conversion, right as rain now.

 

[denverpilot]

Mine would burn out the right bulb rather frequently, did a HID (low K temp) conversion, right as rain now.

Headlights are something Subaru hasn't ever gotten right. It's impressive how they've managed to screw them up now going on two decades. My 17 year old one, they're a lot easier to change, but that's because they need to be changed constantly. And even in operation they don't really light up anything well. Ha.

 

[Bill]

Jeep Grand Cherokee with a hemi. I love mine, 2015 with the 8 speed tranny. I see you've already bought a Subaru, everyone I know who has bought one love them, I hope it treats you well.

I had a much older one, 1996 Grand with the 5.2 V-8. It was a peppy vehicle for it's time and a very nice car. It gave it's life when a red light runner creamed it.

Mine would burn out the right bulb rather frequently, did a HID (low K temp) conversion, right as rain now.

Luckily my new Outback has HID low beams OEM, although they still use halogen for the high beam, which I find strange.

VW has placed sharp metal spikes surrounding the bulb to add to the experience.

I've had two VW, a BMW, and three MB. I'm now done with German cars, out of my system.

 

[Grum.Man]

I like the Subaru's and their CVT is one of the best, I just can't get past the cheap and bland feeling interior and gutless engines. If I got one I would get the XT. The CRV is hands down the best compact CUV on the market right now. A close second would be the CX5 or Hyundai Tuscon

 

[James331]

I like the Subaru's and their CVT is one of the best, I just can't get past the cheap and bland feeling interior and gutless engines. If I got one I would get the XT. The CRV is hands down the best compact CUV on the market right now. A close second would be the CX5 or Hyundai Tuscon

Always liked more of a basic interior, like vetts, no vibrating seats or shnaginans. If ya want more power to take a STI for a spin

 

[Bill]

I like the Subaru's and their CVT is one of the best, I just can't get past the cheap and bland feeling interior and gutless engines.

Depends on model and trim. Go look at an Outback in Limited or Touring trim, they are very nice. Almost as nice as the '06 Benz E-class we used to have. Yes, the non-turbo 4cyl is gutless, but the 256hp flat six is smooth, quiet, and fairly peppy. Magazines have tested the six at 6.9 - 7.1 seconds 0-60, that's peppy enough for most folks, and good enough for me. If I want to go fast, I ride my bike.

 

[Grum.Man]

Depends on model and trim. Go look at an Outback in Limited or Touring trim, they are very nice. Almost as nice as the '06 Benz E-class we used to have. Yes, the non-turbo 4cyl is gutless, but the 256hp flat six is smooth, quiet, and fairly peppy. Magazines have tested the six at 6.9 - 7.1 seconds 0-60, that's peppy enough for most folks, and good enough for me. If I want to go fast, I ride my bike.

I have and an 06 Benz is a pretty low bar to set. They are nice enough for sure but in my opinion have the worst interiors in the class. I do like the turbo and 6 models but the 6 takes a big hit in fuel economy compared to more modern turbo 4s.

I know Subaru's aren't meant to be hard core off roaders, but it's painful to watch youtube videos of people trying to climb hills and they just sit there because they don't have enough power.

 

[weilke]

I've had two VW, a BMW, and three MB. I'm now done with German cars, out of my system.

I have a VW and a MB. Right now my wife has the hots for 3-series BMW. I ran that plan by my independent MB/BMW mechanic. His answer was 'I strongly recommend you buy that 3-series. I have kids in college and by buying that car you will fund their education'. There is a reason BMW bundles the first 3 years maintenance with the purchase price.

The MB hasn't been bad in the 100k miles I have been driving it. Stupid stuff like $640 trunklid locks.

On her Accord daily driver, the only maintenance up to 110k was a burnt out dome light bulb. Since then it required a throttle position sensor and a Starter. At 200k I had to get the whole clutch mechanism rebuilt, but most of that was just wear (oddly enough, the clutch still had meat on it, it was the pressure plate and the bearings that were gone).

 

[Bill]

I have and an 06 Benz is a pretty low bar to set.

Horses for courses. I thought the '06 E-class had a very nice interior. But I like black, subdued, conservative, with lots of soft touch materials.

 

[Everskyward]

Interesting about the headlights. I had a 2003 Outback and now have a 2012 Forester. I have never had a burned out headlight, although I did drain the battery in the Outback once because of the stupid dome light. I think both cars handled better in snow than the Jeep Wrangler I had.

 

[Matthew]

My folks got one of the very first Outback models, liked it so much they got another. They spent a lot of time driving on gravel roads and other loose surfaces as well as in the snow and always felt that AWD was a good thing. The newer models all have the traction and stability controls that the old models didn't have. Traction control maybe, but I think the stability controls are a pretty new invention.

I remember not long after I got mine we had about 12-14" snow so I figured I'd see what it would do. Nobody in the neighborhood was moving, so I put a snow shovel in the back in case I got stuck, grabbed an insulated mug of coffee and headed out around the 'hood. I kept waiting to get stuck because the snow was deep enough it was being plowed by the lower part of the front bumper. But I cruised right along. There were 4WD pickups moving around with snowblowers, stopping to clean out driveways. I was able to move better than they were. I figured if the snow gets bad enough to shut the town down, I can still get around but I won't have to.

I put on a trailer hitch, so that car is now my pickup truck. If I need to carry something that doesn't fit in the back with the seats down, UHaul is just a few minutes away and daily trailer rental prices are pretty cheap.

 

[weilke]

Did anyone mention that AWD in Florida is silly ? It's like a 3 day drive to any place with enough snow to warrant AWD.

With some AWD cars you have to frequently rotate tires and replace them 4 at a time (or get one shaved at a race-shop). It depends on the system, some of the AWD systems are tolerant to uneven tire wear, even then you are dragging around an extra system that you don't need. It sounds like you lease your cars, so none of this may be an issue, but an AWD car also has more moving parts that can wear and need servicing (differential gear-lube, an extra set of axle boots to crack etc.)

 

[Bill]

Did anyone mention that AWD in Florida is silly ?

Even here, it rarely snows, but I have hobbies that sometimes involve muddy fields and dirt roads, hence the Subbie and AWD. Also the clever roof rack system is a big plus to me.

 

[weilke]

Even here, it rarely snows, but I have hobbies that sometimes involve muddy fields and dirt roads, hence the Subbie and AWD. Also the clever roof rack system is a big plus to me.

On saturday I learned that some girlscout leaders aren't that smurt. After 3 days of solid rain, they allowed everyone to drive their minivan off the gravel road and into the meadow at the girlscout camp

 

[Zeldman]

On saturday I learned that some girlscout leaders aren't that smurt. After 3 days of solid rain, they allowed everyone to drive their minivan off the gravel road and into the meadow at the girlscout camp

I am sure that went well....

 

[weilke]

I am sure that went well....

I was there around noon to drop off my daughter. When I came back in the evening to pick her up, I took along a 50ft tow-strap and assorted shackles.

 

[Caramon13]

Did anyone mention that AWD in Florida is silly ? It's like a 3 day drive to any place with enough snow to warrant AWD.

With some AWD cars you have to frequently rotate tires and replace them 4 at a time (or get one shaved at a race-shop). It depends on the system, some of the AWD systems are tolerant to uneven tire wear, even then you are dragging around an extra system that you don't need. It sounds like you lease your cars, so none of this may be an issue, but an AWD car also has more moving parts that can wear and need servicing (differential gear-lube, an extra set of axle boots to crack etc.)

You would be surprised. The rain down here makes the roads very slick and, while there hasn't been a lot this year, you can always count on SOMEONE to wreck their vehicle when it rains.

There's no where for the water to go since we don't have things called "hills" down here. So it just sits on the roads and hydroplaning is VERY common. A co-worker of mine planted his car into the concrete wall next to the road during one particularly rainy day.

Plus, when it rains and you have a camping trip, being able to actually get OUT of that rainy area is nice. The ground clearance also helps.

 

[Matthew]

@weilke does have a good point that a lot of people don't realize. Subaru requires all tires to be the same diameter. They don't specify a tolerance, at least not one that I've seen. This gets to be expensive if you have to replace a tire and have a lot of treadlife left on the other three but not enough to be within specs. You then have to decide if you want to buy all four new, take the one new tire to a specialty shop and have it shaved down to match, or find a used tire.

Subaru isn't the only manufacturer with this requirement. I think most, or all, AWD systems call this out.

Some tire shops will sell tire warranties where they replace the failed tire free, then prorate the others.

 

[weilke]

Subaru isn't the only manufacturer with this requirement. I think most, or all, AWD systems call this out.
.

My Subaru with winter package and mechanical limited slip differentials requires symmetrical tires. A size difference would wear the limited slip mechanism. My MB with the 4-matic doesn't care as it uses the anti-lok brakes to keep a wheel from spinning. I don't know whether current generation Subis have the same restriction.

 

[Zeldman]

I remember reading in my 2013 Subaru manual something about having a flat on the front, take a rear wheel and put it on front, then put the spare on the rear.

 

[Matthew]

My Subaru with winter package and mechanical limited slip differentials requires symmetrical tires. A size difference would wear the limited slip mechanism. My MB with the 4-matic doesn't care as it uses the anti-lok brakes to keep a wheel from spinning. I don't know whether current generation Subis have the same restriction.

Yeah, current models do. All tires need to be the same "type" and diameter. A transfer case gets too much wear otherwise if one tire rotates faster (or slower) than the rest.

I remember reading in my 2013 Subaru manual something about having a flat on the front, take a rear wheel and put it on front, then put the spare on the rear.

I have a '13 - And yes, it says to never use the mini-spare on the front. I think it screws up the handling more than anything else. It's for temporary use only anyhow, but if you lose steering control because of it then I guess "temporary" can take on a whole new meaning.

 

[James331]

I remember reading in my 2013 Subaru manual something about having a flat on the front, take a rear wheel and put it on front, then put the spare on the rear.

And don't forget to pull the AWD fuse from under the hood too

...
I remember not long after I got mine we had about 12-14" snow so I figured I'd see what it would do. Nobody in the neighborhood was moving, so I put a snow shovel in the back in case I got stuck, grabbed an insulated mug of coffee and headed out around the 'hood. I kept waiting to get stuck because the snow was deep enough it was being plowed by the lower part of the front bumper. But I cruised right along. There were 4WD pickups moving around with snowblowers, stopping to clean out driveways. I was able to move better than they were. I figured if the snow gets bad enough to shut the town down, I can still get around but I won't have to.
...

^ that.

We have snow like that as the norm in the winter, I prefer my subies snow handling to my more "off-road" trucks.

 

[Matthew]

And don't forget to pull the AWD fuse from under the hood too

I think that fuse went away after 2010 or thereabouts.

And if you need to tow it, tow it flat - on a flatbed. If you have no other choice then all four on the ground, <20mph and < a few miles. Basically, just far enough to get it off the road. Otherwise, put it on a flatbed. Never tow it 2 up/2 down.

 

[denverpilot]

My folks got one of the very first Outback models, liked it so much they got another. They spent a lot of time driving on gravel roads and other loose surfaces as well as in the snow and always felt that AWD was a good thing. The newer models all have the traction and stability controls that the old models didn't have. Traction control maybe, but I think the stability controls are a pretty new invention.

I remember not long after I got mine we had about 12-14" snow so I figured I'd see what it would do. Nobody in the neighborhood was moving, so I put a snow shovel in the back in case I got stuck, grabbed an insulated mug of coffee and headed out around the 'hood. I kept waiting to get stuck because the snow was deep enough it was being plowed by the lower part of the front bumper. But I cruised right along. There were 4WD pickups moving around with snowblowers, stopping to clean out driveways. I was able to move better than they were. I figured if the snow gets bad enough to shut the town down, I can still get around but I won't have to.

I put on a trailer hitch, so that car is now my pickup truck. If I need to carry something that doesn't fit in the back with the seats down, UHaul is just a few minutes away and daily trailer rental prices are pretty cheap.

The Subaru AWD system beats all the others, hands down. It puts power down even when nobody else's does.

Did anyone mention that AWD in Florida is silly ? It's like a 3 day drive to any place with enough snow to warrant AWD.

With some AWD cars you have to frequently rotate tires and replace them 4 at a time (or get one shaved at a race-shop). It depends on the system, some of the AWD systems are tolerant to uneven tire wear, even then you are dragging around an extra system that you don't need. It sounds like you lease your cars, so none of this may be an issue, but an AWD car also has more moving parts that can wear and need servicing (differential gear-lube, an extra set of axle boots to crack etc.)

Mud. Rain. Mess.

Someone told me (I haven't checked) that the top of the VAB at Kennedy Space Center is the highest point in all of Florida. Even if stretching the truth a bit, the point he was making was Florida is really really freaking flat. Water doesn't go anywhere. Thus, fun stuff like the Everglades.

As far as the whole "tires need to be the same size" thing, there's an upside to that. If you buy road hazard insurance at many places, if one tire isn't repairable, they'll replace two or four (depending on the limits of the system) for free or a very discounted price. I got two new tires for zero dollars plus balancing fees out of one nail through a sidewall. A co-worker got four on his Subie through the dealership. Makes you want to invest in a box of nails and a hammer... hahaha.

 

[weilke]

The Subaru AWD system beats all the others, hands down. It puts power down even when nobody else's does.

The original audi quattro system was very capable. Three separate differentials. Depending on the model either the rear only or rear and middle could be manually locked:



I dont know how Audis system is configured today.

 

[denverpilot]

The original audi quattro system was very capable. Three separate differentials. Depending on the model either the rear only or rear and middle could be manually locked:

View attachment 53584

I dont know how Audis system is configured today.

Probably requires that much manual intervention still and about $5000 or more to fix it if it breaks? ;-)

Subaru is "push on gas pedal". LOL.

 

[TheGolfPilot]

I have an all electric RAV4 and I'm going to drive that thing until it can no longer take a charge. The roomiest, easiest, cheapest, small SUV out there. Only gas I buy is 100LL. Unfortunately you can no longer buy one new.