NA/ Repo men

markb5900

markb5900

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Mark B
My boss asked me an interesting question today that I have no idea what the answer might be so I thought I would put it out for discussion.
We are a privately owned company.
Our parking lot has signs, "no tresspassing, employees only".
A repo man shows up to repo one of our employee's cars. The GM (my boss) tells them basically "get the hell of our land".
Is there any legal standing for this?
We "know" the rules about bounty hunters (BTDT) but have no idea whether we can kick repo men off our property or not.
It is NOT to save the employee, if they owe the money then it should be done. We were thinking more along the lines of if they damage someone elses property or our own in the process and we "allowed" them to do it, line of thinking.
Thanks

Mark B.
 
Wow - what an excellent question, Mark. I'd like to know the answer too.
 
markb5900 said:
My boss asked me an interesting question today that I have no idea what the answer might be so I thought I would put it out for discussion.
We are a privately owned company.
Our parking lot has signs, "no tresspassing, employees only".
A repo man shows up to repo one of our employee's cars. The GM (my boss) tells them basically "get the hell of our land".
Is there any legal standing for this?
We "know" the rules about bounty hunters (BTDT) but have no idea whether we can kick repo men off our property or not.
It is NOT to save the employee, if they owe the money then it should be done. We were thinking more along the lines of if they damage someone elses property or our own in the process and we "allowed" them to do it, line of thinking.
Thanks

Mark B.
Click to expand...

It depends on the state. I haven't done a repo in Missouri since I was a kid, but back then, I would have told him to F-off unless he wanted me to get the sherriff involved. With a repo order I am recovering what basically is stolen property. I can go any where any time. When I do repos in Florida, I am under the burden that I can't cause a "public disturbance". I took a 130' yacht from this one guys dock in his back yard while he was having a party by the pool, that was my favorite. Once I'm off the dock, they can shout all they want. He was yelling at me and I just waved the papers and shouted back, "Call your banker!!!"
 
Henning said:
It depends on the state. I haven't done a repo in Missouri since I was a kid, but back then, I would have told him to F-off unless he wanted me to get the sherriff involved. With a repo order I am recovering what basically is stolen property. I can go any where any time. When I do repos in Florida, I am under the burden that I can't cause a "public disturbance". I took a 130' yacht from this one guys dock in his back yard while he was having a party by the pool, that was my favorite. Once I'm off the dock, they can shout all they want. He was yelling at me and I just waved the papers and shouted back, "Call your banker!!!"
Click to expand...

Dude, we have to make a movie about your life.
 
Henning said:
It depends on the state. I haven't done a repo in Missouri since I was a kid, but back then, I would have told him to F-off unless he wanted me to get the sherriff involved. With a repo order I am recovering what basically is stolen property. I can go any where any time. When I do repos in Florida, I am under the burden that I can't cause a "public disturbance". I took a 130' yacht from this one guys dock in his back yard while he was having a party by the pool, that was my favorite. Once I'm off the dock, they can shout all they want. He was yelling at me and I just waved the papers and shouted back, "Call your banker!!!"
Click to expand...

We WILL get the sherriff involved if necessary. That is why I asked about the legality of it.

Mark B.
 
One of my former employees worked as a repo man for a while. In Wisconsin he was allowed to recover property that belonged to the bank off of private property. He would just have to let the local law enforcement agency know what he was doing and was executing the repossession order, which BTW was a court order. Lots of stories he would tell but basically if there was a problem the local law was brought in to escort him onto the land and arrest those that were trying to prevent him from carry out the court order.
 
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On that Repo Men TV show they repo'ed a GlasAir. The repo guy was nervous because his pilot buddy insisted on checking the logs and doing a pre-flight while the guys at the airport watched.

Hey, he was flying an EXPERIMENTAL plane he had never seen before. Deal with it.

The bystanders shoulda called GA-SECURE.
 
markb5900 said:
My boss asked me an interesting question today that I have no idea what the answer might be so I thought I would put it out for discussion.
We are a privately owned company.
Our parking lot has signs, "no tresspassing, employees only".
A repo man shows up to repo one of our employee's cars. The GM (my boss) tells them basically "get the hell of our land".
Is there any legal standing for this?
We "know" the rules about bounty hunters (BTDT) but have no idea whether we can kick repo men off our property or not.
It is NOT to save the employee, if they owe the money then it should be done. We were thinking more along the lines of if they damage someone elses property or our own in the process and we "allowed" them to do it, line of thinking.
Thanks

Mark B.
Click to expand...

Mark,
Being a MO LE officer, let him have the car! He has a legal right to it and if you keep him from it, you could have a legal battle on you hands thats not worth the trouble. If no trespassing signs kept a car from being repoed, they would be everywhere.
 
why doesn't the employee just pay his bills or give up the car? he realizes you cant get stuff for free right? He did sign papers to that effect i am sure. If i were that company, i would not get involved in that way. I would however take the employee aside and see if things are ok with him/her. I would stay out of it Mark.
 
A buddy of mine used to repo for a while. He and his partner finally found the car they'd been looking for. It belonged to a bartender who kept it hidden behind his bar. They figured, why not? and went inside for a couple of beers. They tipped the bartender, then left and took his car. He said they did this three times. Don't know if he was pulling my leg or not, but it makes for a good story.
 
markb5900 said:
We WILL get the sherriff involved if necessary. That is why I asked about the legality of it.

Mark B.
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Yep, the repo man can come get it from locked private property. He will be liable for any other damage he does to non involved property say if he damages another car in the parking lot, but not for the lock he cuts off the gate. You see the bank has exhausted a long litany of recourse requirements mandated by law before they issue a repo order. Heck they don't want to repo, they always lose on a repo. It's expensive to deal with, but they have to mitigate their losses the best way they can. Feel free to call the Sherriff, I always welcomed law enforcement. They typically can't get involved until there is a problem, but they are always on the side of the repo man if they are honest. By the time there is a repo being done, that property is considered basically stolen. It is no longer in a state of authorized use by the person using it. They have been asked many times to relinquish the property. If you do call the sherriff, head what he says lest you become a felon yourself for aiding and abbetting (not likely but I've seen a couple of beligerent people taken down).
 
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mikea said:
On that Repo Men TV show .
Click to expand...

I was on that!:D If you ever see the Ft Lauderdale one, you'll see me even though I asked they not get my face they did briefly anyway as I was hotwiring a boat.
 
markb5900 said:
It is NOT to save the employee, if they owe the money then it should be done. We were thinking more along the lines of if they damage someone elses property or our own in the process and we "allowed" them to do it, line of thinking.
Thanks

Mark B.
Click to expand...

BTW, if that's truely how you feel, then go inside, get the employee and have him come out drive the car off the lot and turn it over to the repo man.
 
Henning said:
BTW, if that's truely how you feel, then go inside, get the employee and have him come out drive the car off the lot and turn it over to the repo man.
Click to expand...

Wow... Good call Henning. Now why didn't any of the rest of us think of that? :dunno:
 
Henning said:
BTW, if that's truely how you feel, then go inside, get the employee and have him come out drive the car off the lot and turn it over to the repo man.
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...it was my employee, I'd go get the keys from him...
 
SCCutler said:
...it was my employee, I'd go get the keys from him...
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There is one other good option (that doesn't involve a gunfight, and to be warned, most repo guys are pretty proficient with their sidearm) and I've only had one person ever do it. On every repo order I've ever carried has been a settlement amout. You may pay out the settlement to me. It's really as simple as that. Thing is, most repos are voluntary repos. People get in a bind, their situation changes (in many hardship issues if you call the finance company, they will make new arrangments, like I said, they don't want a repo, they want money) and they can no longer afford the property. They try to sell it but can't get for it what they owe so they call the bank and say, "Sorry, come get it" and I show up, they hand me the keys, we chat for a bit and I leave. It's pretty rare that I get shot at.
 
Funny thing, it's sorta like process servers. After years of using process servers who all were private-eye wannabes (the profession seems to draw them), skulking around and trying to sneak up on Defendants, I finally found the best of 'em all. He calls the "target," tells them who he is and what he's doingm and they usually make an appointment and receive their papers. And appreciate the respect, dignity and lack of drama.

I'd imagine that could work in the repo context as well. Just a thought.

Though I did have a client (not mine, I worked for the firm...) who was an MD, went after the repo operator with a scalpel. Not a pretty sight.
 
SCCutler said:
Funny thing, it's sorta like process servers. After years of using process servers who all were private-eye wannabes (the profession seems to draw them), skulking around and trying to sneak up on Defendants, I finally found the best of 'em all. He calls the "target," tells them who he is and what he's doingm and they usually make an appointment and receive their papers. And appreciate the respect, dignity and lack of drama.

I'd imagine that could work in the repo context as well. Just a thought.

Though I did have a client (not mine, I worked for the firm...) who was an MD, went after the repo operator with a scalpel. Not a pretty sight.
Click to expand...

Like I said, that's typically the way it happens, but the bank has people who do that as does the repo company I'm working for. By the time I'm involved, something needs to be taken.
 
Interesting in SC... if you catch the repo guy, you can tell him to stop, and he has to unless he has the order from the court about the Claim and Delivery lawsuit.

The lender can repossess the car in either of two ways: by using self-help or by filing a Claim and Delivery lawsuit. If the contract says that the lender can use self-help to repossess the car, he can tow your car from your driveway, the street or your place of work. The law allows the lender to use self-help in repossessing your car, but the law does require that the self-help be peaceful. If you see someone from the lender hooking up your car to tow it away, you can tell the repossession people to stop. When you tell them to stop, any further attempt to tow the car is not peaceful. If the repossession continues, the repossession people risk liability for wrongful repossession. Besides self-help, the lender can bring a claim and delivery lawsuit to repossess your car. Usually, the lender cannot repossess your car under a claim and delivery lawsuit until the papers are served on you. Also, you usually have a right to a hearing in court before your car is repossessed. However, if the lender has a good reason to believe that you may destroy or hide the car, he can get the judge to allow immediate repossession whether the papers have been served or not.
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Sounds like if Mark and the other employees could tell the repo guy to stop and he has to, otherwise he's breached the peace. Seems like the same would be applicable if the repo guy cut the lock to get into a fenced yard or broke into a garage to get to the car. It MUST be peaceful. Unsecured driveway or open parking lots, A-OK. Repo guy can't claim he's law enforcement, force you out of the vehicle, or do anything else to force you to hand over the car. The only time you're forced to hand over the car is when the lender has successfully received an order for claim and delivery.

IANAL, YMMV. Let me know if I've got glaring errors in my statement :)
 
wbarnhill said:
Interesting in SC... if you catch the repo guy, you can tell him to stop, and he has to unless he has the order from the court about the Claim and Delivery lawsuit.
Click to expand...

And that will be in the stack of paperwork I'd be carrying. They are a matter of course.
As to the peace, same law is in Florida. You hook up (or in my case board the boat) surreptitiously and tak possession. Once you're hooked up (or off the dock an inch) they can make all the fuss they want, the deal is done.

BTW, The laws change state by state.
 
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Henning said:
It depends on the state. I haven't done a repo in Missouri since I was a kid, but back then, I would have told him to F-off unless he wanted me to get the sherriff involved. With a repo order I am recovering what basically is stolen property. I can go any where any time. When I do repos in Florida, I am under the burden that I can't cause a "public disturbance". I took a 130' yacht from this one guys dock in his back yard while he was having a party by the pool, that was my favorite. Once I'm off the dock, they can shout all they want. He was yelling at me and I just waved the papers and shouted back, "Call your banker!!!"
Click to expand...

I think I'm going to start a poll:

How many times have you been shot at?
 
woodstock said:
I think I'm going to start a poll:

How many times have you been shot at?
Click to expand...

Forget it. Henning wins...unless some of the military vets can compete.

Make it: "How many times have you been shot at as a civilian?"
 
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wbarnhill said:
Interesting in SC... if you catch the repo guy, you can tell him to stop, and he has to unless he has the order from the court about the Claim and Delivery lawsuit.

Sounds like if Mark and the other employees could tell the repo guy to stop and he has to, otherwise he's breached the peace. Seems like the same would be applicable if the repo guy cut the lock to get into a fenced yard or broke into a garage to get to the car. It MUST be peaceful. Unsecured driveway or open parking lots, A-OK. Repo guy can't claim he's law enforcement, force you out of the vehicle, or do anything else to force you to hand over the car. The only time you're forced to hand over the car is when the lender has successfully received an order for claim and delivery.

IANAL, YMMV. Let me know if I've got glaring errors in my statement :)
Click to expand...

This is Missouri, most Repo people will go to the local LE Department and let them know what they are doing. I have even gone with them before if it was in an area that they may get shot at. You don't go into some areas of South Missouri without guns, those stories you here are TRUE. Last year we had a State Trooper shot and killed in his own driveway by a suspect he was looking for. Some times we the hunter, become the hunted around here.
 
woodstock said:
I think I'm going to start a poll:

How many times have you been shot at?
Click to expand...

Not that many really, probably only 6. I'm sure there are vets here like JD who have been shot at for long periods of time by people who can actually shoot straight. Most civilians that would shoot at someone couldn't hit the broad side of a barn much less a moving target.
 
Dean said:
This is Missouri, most Repo people will go to the local LE Department and let them know what they are doing. I have even gone with them before if it was in an area that they may get shot at. You don't go into some areas of South Missouri without guns, those stories you here are TRUE. Last year we had a State Trooper shot and killed in his own driveway by a suspect he was looking for. Some times we the hunter, become the hunted around here.
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I remember back in the early 80s there was a month where every weekend a MHP officer was shot dead on a routine traffic stop. I was working weekends for Hertz as a shuttle driver and I was coming down, I think it's Hwy 72 down from Iowa in a Buick Regal doing about 120 when a trooper pulled me over. I just rolled down my window and put my hands on my head as he walked up to the car. "Do you know how fast you were going?", "Yes sir","Why are your hands on your head?","Well I figured with whats been in the news for the last few weeks with you guys getting killed doing this your biggest concern was if I was going to shoot you or not, so I figured I'd put my hands there so you'd know I wasn't (I was just trying to keep myself from being shot by a nervous cop)","Oh yeah? Well slow the f--k down and get out of here.","Yes sir"
 
Henning said:
I remember back in the early 80s there was a month where every weekend a MHP officer was shot dead on a routine traffic stop. I was working weekends for Hertz as a shuttle driver and I was coming down, I think it's Hwy 72 down from Iowa in a Buick Regal doing about 120 when a trooper pulled me over. I just rolled down my window and put my hands on my head as he walked up to the car. "Do you know how fast you were going?", "Yes sir","Why are your hands on your head?","Well I figured with whats been in the news for the last few weeks with you guys getting killed doing this your biggest concern was if I was going to shoot you or not, so I figured I'd put my hands there so you'd know I wasn't (I was just trying to keep myself from being shot by a nervous cop)","Oh yeah? Well slow the f--k down and get out of here.","Yes sir"
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Yeah, that goes way back. I lived in/around Kansas City back then (since moved away and now back). If I remember right, one of our local eccentrics with a whole lotta money donated a bunch of H&Ks to the patrol. I'll have to see if I can find that info again.

edit: '88 was what I was trying to remember (snipped from the MHP historical files)

"Mr. xxx of Kansas City announced
in April that he would donate 300 HK93 semi-automatic
rifles to the Highway Patrol. The first 100
weapons arrived in late July."​
 
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Each states laws are different. In PA I have had cars repoed for a client and had cars of client's repoed. The Car I had repoed for a client was taken out of the private driveway of the debtor by the tow truck. Local LE is ALWAYS advised of what will happen and when. This is non negotiable for me.

In PA, Unlike where Henning worked the property on which payments are stopped is not considered stolen property. Its a purly civil dispute ( meaning civil law vs. criminal law) until someone gets hurt or fraud is proven.

If I reperesented the Repo guy in Marks situation I'd tell him get it from the guys house or in a public lot. IMO the repo man is treading on thin ice if he disobeys a tresspassing sign and the property owner's verbal instructions to stay off the lot. In the alternative the lot owner could have the repo guy sign a release.

FYI in PA a lot of the RePo outfits make crud on the acutal RePo. Where they make thier big money is when the debtor finally makes payment to the bank and comes to get the car they pay storage fees to the repo guy. Those fees can really add up.
 
AdamZ said:
FYI in PA a lot of the RePo outfits make crud on the acutal RePo. Where they make thier big money is when the debtor finally makes payment to the bank and comes to get the car they pay storage fees to the repo guy. Those fees can really add up.
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We'd charge storage regardless of who picks it up or if the bank asks us to sell it. That's why I was saying Banks hate repos. The only guys who like repos are the "Buy here Pay here" lots because they charge a healthy down, do their own repos with the keys they keep, and get to resell the same car several times.
 
Henning said:
Not that many really, probably only 6. I'm sure there are vets here like JD who have been shot at for long periods of time by people who can actually shoot straight. Most civilians that would shoot at someone couldn't hit the broad side of a barn much less a moving target.
Click to expand...
Some hunters also. I was shot at during primative weapon season for deer by a guy with a shot gun (no a shot gun is not a primative weapon). I heard the blast and heard the slug traveling through the leaves in the trees. I dove behind a big tree and he ran off. (I guess he saw I was not a deer)
 
Henning said:
The only guys who like repos are the "Buy here Pay here" lots because they charge a healthy down, do their own repos with the keys they keep, and get to resell the same car several times.
Click to expand...

The biggest "buy here pay here" dealer has some electronic gizmo attached to the customers car, and if he misses a weekly payment, they turn the car off. (actually, it won't start the next time the person tried to start)
 
JRitt said:
Some hunters also. I was shot at during primative weapon season for deer by a guy with a shot gun (no a shot gun is not a primative weapon). I heard the blast and heard the slug traveling through the leaves in the trees. I dove behind a big tree and he ran off. (I guess he saw I was not a deer)
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That amongst other reasons is why I don't hunt. I don't disparrage hunters or anything, it's just not me, and the hunters I do know....well lets just say I don't want to be around them and loaded weapons when they're seeing through beer goggles.
 
Henning said:
loaded weapons when they're seeing through beer goggles.
Click to expand...

That's a combination that doesn't work in any setting. Field, range, whatever. Obviously the reason for the sign at the entrance to the bar at the restaurant where I had lunch today. State law prohibits carrying a firearm into the bar. There's a gun law I can live with.

I remember hosting a shoot at the NRA Whittington Center in 1982. Asked the facility manager if there were gun laws in NM that our members needed to know about. There were two. Don't carry concealed and don't carry into an establishment that sells alcohol. Simple enough. Open carry was fine, BTW.
 
woodstock said:
I think I'm going to start a poll:

How many times have you been shot at?
Click to expand...

Don't forget - How many times have you been hit?

I think we should leave military experience out - since in wartime getting shot at is part of the process. In law enforcement, it happens, but the process is to avoid it.

-Tim (shot at 5 times, hit once - and the time I got hit was not related to my time in law enforcement)
 
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