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gkainz

gkainz

Final Approach
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Feb 23, 2005
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Arvada, CO
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Display name:
Greg Kainz
I would like to get a decent .22 for target/plinking/varmint shooting. The Navy issued me a Smith and Wesson Model 41 .22 and a Colt National Match .45 way back when I was shooting on the pistol team, and I really liked that S&W; excellent balance, accuracy, fit... all around nice pistol.

I just did a quick search and it looks like they're selling for $700 or better now. Looking for a discussion, feedback and opinions on other models with similar accuracy and reliability for less sheckels? Maybe in the $200-$300 range?
 
If you aren't fixed on a handgun, I would recommend the Ruger 10/22. I bought one a few months ago (wanted one for years) and am really happy with it. There's a reason why it is the best selling .22 around.
 
got one (Ruger 10/22) ... looking for a .22 pistol similar or better than the S&W MDL 41 for half the price
 
I have a Ruger MK II .22 target pistol and it is reliable and accurate.

I recently bought a used Sig Mosquito .22 pistol. It appeared in great shape but the first time I tried to shoot it was very unreliable. I was using Federal 36 gr. high velocity ammunition, the type you can get in 550 round boxes. I disassembled it at home and discovered that the pistol has two different springs and the wimpy spring installed. I will probably try the stronger spring with a hotter round. Any suggestions? CCI ammo ?

I have a Ruger 10/22 rifle. It is fun to shoot but not nearly as accurate as my Remington bolt action .22 rifle.
 
Gary F said:
I have a Ruger MK II .22 target pistol and it is reliable and accurate.
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Greg. I have four Ruger MK II's. Yeah, that's how much I like them. The Smith 41 is a GREAT target pistol. However, with not much money and a little tinkering, you can turn a stock Ruger MK II into a really nice pistol target shooting up to the competition lever. Volquartsen and some others make all the goodies to enhance the trigger and other items that effect accuracy.

The MK II is no longer made. The MK III can be problematic with some of the lawywer stuff they added. A loaded chamber indicator and magazine disconnect was added and they can sometimes be a pain. However, you can overcome both of these and essentially turn the MK III into a MK II if you want. They are still great pistols.

I like the 5 inch bull barrel MK II the best for and all all around target shooting/plinking gun. They also have adjustable sights.

Second the recommendation on the 10/22 rifle. I tricked one out about 15 years ago and its been great. Target bull barrel, new stock, replaced the entire trigger and sear assembly, etc. Accuracy is similar to some bolt action target .22. I get nickel size groups at 50 yards with cheap bulk ammo.

The other pistol I would recommend is the Browning Buckmark. They are also excellent and accurate with a better out of the box trigger than the Ruger. You can make the trigger better by doing the "Hegis Flip". Go here and do a search.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com

Great website on .22's, with great forums.
 
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Gary F said:
I recently bought a used Sig Mosquito .22 pistol. It appeared in great shape but the first time I tried to shoot it was very unreliable. I was using Federal 36 gr. high velocity ammunition, the type you can get in 550 round boxes. I disassembled it at home and discovered that the pistol has two different springs and the wimpy spring installed. I will probably try the stronger spring with a hotter round. Any suggestions? CCI ammo ?
Click to expand...

Gary. The Sig Mosquito and Walther P22 may look cool and with CCI Minimags maybe sometimes reliable, but as you know they are not in the league of the Ruger MK II or Browning Buckmark.
 
The best values are the Ruger MK II and the Ruger .22/45. The latter has the same grip angle of the M1911 you were used to shooting back in the day.
 
Anthony said:
The MK II is no longer made. The MK III can be problematic with some of the lawywer stuff they added. A loaded chamber indicator and magazine disconnect was added and they can sometimes be a pain. However, you can overcome both of these and essentially turn the MK III into a MK II if you want. They are still great pistols.

I like the 5 inch bull barrel MK II the best for and all all around target shooting/plinking gun. They also have adjustable sights.

Second the recommendation on the 10/22 rifle. I tricked one out about 15 years ago and its been great. Target bull barrel, new stock, replaced the entire trigger and sear assembly, etc. Accuracy is similar to some bolt action target .22. I get nickel size groups at 50 yards with cheap bulk ammo.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com
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Thanks for the link to rimfirecentral. I also have the MK II with 5" bull barrell, decent target pistol out of the box but I want another Ruger pistol. How difficult is it to convert a MK III into a MK II? What is the source for the parts?

Can you recommend a good barrel for the 10/22? Is it difficult to change out a barrel?

Anthony said:
Gary. The Sig Mosquito and Walther P22 may look cool and with CCI Minimags maybe sometimes reliable, but as you know they are not in the league of the Ruger MK II or Browning Buckmark.
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I guess that sums it up. I wanted to try something different and it does look cool but that does not count for much in a semi auto pistol.
 
Gary,

Here ya go. You can search this site also and rimfirecentral to get what you need. Guntalk has detailed instructions on how to do the mods.

http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634

The 10/22 barrel is extemely easy to change out. Its just a screw if memory serves. No special tools are needed. It just comes off and you replace it. Clark, Volquartsen and Power Custom I believe have barrels. I got a stock and barrel package from Midway in the mid 90's, but they don't offer that any more. Check them out though. They have what you need.

http://www.midwayusa.com/

Brownells is also an excellent source.

http://www.brownells.com/

I replaced just about everything on my 10/22 except the bolt and receiver. Now there are companies that will just sell you the receiver so you can build up a rifle. Back when I did it, this was not an option.
 
I've got a Browning Buckmark for .22 piston shooting. I love its accuracy, it's fun and easy to shoot, and it's cheap. Semi-automatic.

I've also got a Mossberg Plinkster for a .22 rifle. Also semi-automatic. FUn, reasonably accurate, and also cheap. Both were in the $200-250 range, but that was about 4 years ago so prices have probably come up. Significantly lower than the $700 mark.
 
This is a little off topic but does rimfire ammo have a shelf life? I found a brick of PMC Target 22 that is at least 14 years old. It has been kept in a cool dry place. Is there any degradation in performance over time?
 
Gary - I would have no qualms about shooting 14 year old .22 rimfire. In fact, we used to regularly shoot pretty old boxes of Lake City Match .45 ammo with no issue.

Anthony and others - thanks for the info on the the Ruger MkII - I'll start looking around on that one. Also, the Ruger .22/45 sounds interesting. I played around with the .22 mod on a Colt Gold Cup when I owned one years ago with mixed results. It was accurate, but the reliability was a bit shaky.

I'm a big fan of Ruger's products - just put a hundred rounds thru my P90S last week with its normal zero failures and accuracy continuing to be better than my aging eyes. I did try an interesting (to me) head position with these new varilux eye glasses. Tipping my head way back and bringing the reading lens area into view, the sights were perfect again. The target was a little blurry, but still clear enough to determine the bull was floating exactly over the front post. Suddenly "the gun" :) improved from 10 ring to the X ring! :D
 
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gkainz said:
I would like to get a decent .22 for target/plinking/varmint shooting. The Navy issued me a Smith and Wesson Model 41 .22 and a Colt National Match .45 way back when I was shooting on the pistol team, and I really liked that S&W; excellent balance, accuracy, fit... all around nice pistol.

I just did a quick search and it looks like they're selling for $700 or better now. Looking for a discussion, feedback and opinions on other models with similar accuracy and reliability for less sheckels? Maybe in the $200-$300 range?
Click to expand...

I like my Colt AR15-A2 Delta heavy barrel for that sort of thing.... its chambered in the .223 variant of the .22 caliber cartridge. Has a 3-10x weatherized scope. Shoots a quarter sized group at 100 yards... I even added a bipod to the forestock so that its good for the field.
 
The only cartridge firing handgun I've got is a Browning Nomad. They quit making them years ago and mine dates back to 1968. Shoots well. Doesn't like hollow points, feed problems with them.

Now, if you want to talk real handguns - several charcoal burners. Cartridge guns are a passing fad, they'll never catch on. :D
 
Doggtyred said:
I like my Colt AR15-A2 Delta heavy barrel for that sort of thing.... its chambered in the .223 variant of the .22 caliber cartridge. Has a 3-10x weatherized scope. Shoots a quarter sized group at 100 yards... I even added a bipod to the forestock so that its good for the field.
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I've been eyeballing the Ruger Ranch Rifle mini-14 for that type of shooting, but once again we're in the $700-$1000 dollar range and that's a bit more than I want to spend for shooting p-dogs, cans and paper.

Ghery said:
The only cartridge firing handgun I've got is a Browning Nomad. They quit making them years ago and mine dates back to 1968. Shoots well. Doesn't like hollow points, feed problems with them.

Now, if you want to talk real handguns - several charcoal burners. Cartridge guns are a passing fad, they'll never catch on. :D
Click to expand...

I may get into the muzzle-stuffers for pistol shooting. Or maybe black powder cartridge guns just to mess with that new-fangled modern gizmo stuff. I shoot black powder rifles - hunt elk with a Thompson-Center Hawkins .50 percussion on occasion.

My old shooting partner from the Navy days (Distinguished Shooter in both rifle and pistol) got into the Action Cowboy shooting after he retired. He keeps sending me info on it - he's having a blast doing it.
 
I have a Ruger Mk II with the long bull barrel -- something like 10-11 inches, if I remember correctly... Even with the promo brick loads by Remington and Federal, it is a tack driver... Having a long sight radius makes quite the difference when you're using iron sights instead of optics. I used to use it for dispatching various pests that got on my property (e.g. armadillos, 'possums, etc), but these days, I have a handload that I use for a .357 mag that is loaded down so far that it is even more quiet than the .22 (about 300-350 fps with a 158 gr bullet).
 
I was shooting a friends S&W Model 41 and really couldn't get around the price.
Bought a Ruger MKII, 5in Bull barrel and put a new trigger in it and machined a barrel weight to match the lines of the frame forward of the trigger and had it
blued and drilled and tapped to the bottom of the barrel for attachment.
I found it matched the balance of the 41 and kept the muzzle jump similar to
the Model 41. Mine will shoot as well and feels the same as the 41 for half the price, plus I had fun playing with it.
Dave
 
gkainz said:
I've been eyeballing the Ruger Ranch Rifle mini-14 for that type of shooting, but once again we're in the $700-$1000 dollar range and that's a bit more than I want to spend for shooting p-dogs, cans and paper.
Click to expand...

It only cost $800 when I bought it... in 1992. :wink2:

I've got a folding stock mini 14 sitting next to it thats a little more on the cheap side..
 
gkainz said:
I've been eyeballing the Ruger Ranch Rifle mini-14 for that type of shooting, but once again we're in the $700-$1000 dollar range and that's a bit more than I want to spend for shooting p-dogs, cans and paper.



I may get into the muzzle-stuffers for pistol shooting. Or maybe black powder cartridge guns just to mess with that new-fangled modern gizmo stuff. I shoot black powder rifles - hunt elk with a Thompson-Center Hawkins .50 percussion on occasion.

My old shooting partner from the Navy days (Distinguished Shooter in both rifle and pistol) got into the Action Cowboy shooting after he retired. He keeps sending me info on it - he's having a blast doing it.
Click to expand...

My son has a Mini-14. Has a lot of fun with it. It's no tack driver, but doesn't do too bad. Or is that him? Not sure, he hasn't done much shooting since Scouts, so I suspect there is some technique he's missing, too.

The only deer I've shot was during the muzzleloading season in Colorado in 1982. Navy Arms reproduction 1864 Springfield Rifle-Musket. .58 cal. 505 grain lead Minie. Dropped that deer in his tracks. And it was my normal target load of 50 gr fffg powder. Heavier loads and the gun wouldn't group.

Have fun.
 
Ghery said:
The only deer I've shot was during the muzzleloading season in Colorado in 1982. Navy Arms reproduction 1864 Springfield Rifle-Musket. .58 cal. 505 grain lead Minie. Dropped that deer in his tracks. And it was my normal target load of 50 gr fffg powder. Heavier loads and the gun wouldn't group.
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The deer around my house are so unafraid of humans that I could probably go hunting for them with a hammer. At least the does are... Have only seen 2 bucks during the last 4 years, but it's common to see 8-10 does in a group at night right along my rear fence line that overlooks the greenspace. Some people don't like them in the neighborhood since they eat their plants. I figure that if you don't want them eating your plants, don't put tasty ones out there that the deer like... I've actually seen deer walking down the street at night going from one side of the street to the other to eat various plants from one neighbor and then other plants from another neighbor -- basically a buffet line for them... The does are a bit small though, so they're not really worth harvesting in my opinion...

Back in the early 1980s, I was up in the hills outside of Boulder and I had a 6-point buck decide to step out fairly close to me... All I had with me was a Ruger Blackhawk (single action .44mag). I took it out of my backpack and had venison for quite awhile...
 
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Gary F said:
This is a little off topic but does rimfire ammo have a shelf life? I found a brick of PMC Target 22 that is at least 14 years old. It has been kept in a cool dry place. Is there any degradation in performance over time?
Click to expand...

It should be just fine.

I am still reloading with WWII 4831 powder, and have never had a problem.
 
For a moment I thought you were a neighbor I hadn't met. Our neighborhood is lousy with forest rats. And don't tell my wife not to plant flower the forest rats like. She knows what flowers she likes. And I've hit forest rats with hand thrown rocks. Doesn't much get their attention. They just wait for me to go back inside, then they come back for seconds. And the last time I saw a map at the county sheriff's office showing where it was legal to discharge a firearm, our area was legal. Now, as we know in aviation, smart and legal aren't necessarily the same, and it would NOT be smart to pop off a round here. Not to mention, like you, all I see are does. The war continues... :D
 
Ghery said:
Our neighborhood is lousy with forest rats. And don't tell my wife not to plant flower the forest rats like. She knows what flowers she likes. And I've hit forest rats with hand thrown rocks. Doesn't much get their attention. They just wait for me to go back inside, then they come back for seconds. And the last time I saw a map at the county sheriff's office showing where it was legal to discharge a firearm, our area was legal. Now, as we know in aviation, smart and legal aren't necessarily the same, and it would NOT be smart to pop off a round here. Not to mention, like you, all I see are does. The war continues... :D
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Why not a high powered air rifle?
 
It used to be easy to change Ruger barrels, with just two bolts. However, they went to a threaded barrel fairly recently, and this of course makes it harder to change. From my reading, Ruger is not well known for making great stock barrels. I have a 77/17 varmint rifle, and the stock barrel never shot better than an inch, no matter what brand ammo. Added a Shilen, and now it shoots under a half. Also changed trigger groups, as the stock trigger was also terrible. For a real quality rf, the Vokquartsen are great.

I have had a 41 SW for a long time, with two barrels. It is a great pistol- perhaps not as good as the Walthers or Hammerli, but still a great pistol. I think a Ruger will do just as well, but will take some work to get it to shoot like the Smith.

Just my opinion, but these days you can shoot thousands of rounds of 22 match ammo for less than the fist of one hour of fling time.
 
CollinLeon said:
There are some companies that make larger bore air rifles.

Here's one that makes a .45 that will shoot a 180 gr projectile at 650 fps.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Sam_Yang_Big_Bore_44_909_Light_Hunter/394

Not that I would really want to use one on a deer though...
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I thought a forest (tree) rat was a squirrel. The problem with larger varmints is that the DNR is funny about when and where you shoot them in spite of the damage they do. If it is legal to shoot them you can probably use a crossbow. This might be more discrete unless it runs off into you neighbors yard and bleeds all over the place. A paint gun or air rifle may discourage a particular animal from returning but there are a lot more of them out there.
 
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Gary F said:
I thought a forest (tree) rat was a squirrel. The problem with larger varmints is that the DNR is funny about when and where you shoot them in spite of the damage they do. If it is legal to shoot them you can probably use a crossbow. This might be more discrete unless it runs off into you neighbors yard and bleeds all over the place. A paint gun or air rifle may discourage a particular animal from returning but there are a lot more of them out there.
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I've heard squirrels called "tree rats", but never "forest rats". Considering the wording to his post, I think that he was replying to a post of mine (since I had replied to a post of his) and as such, I assumed he was talking about deer.

Doing a quick Google search does show other cases of people using this term with respect to deer -- often after they have hit them with their cars...
 
CollinLeon said:
I've heard squirrels called "tree rats", but never "forest rats". Considering the wording to his post, I think that he was replying to a post of mine (since I had replied to a post of his) and as such, I assumed he was talking about deer.

Doing a quick Google search does show other cases of people using this term with respect to deer -- often after they have hit them with their cars...
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Yup. "Forest rat" = deer. At least in my posts.
 
Ghery said:
Yup. "Forest rat" = deer. At least in my posts.
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I think of deer more as forest cows that can run.

Rat = small

Deer = big, especially the Mulies I used to stalk in Colorado.
 
Ghery said:
Yup. "Forest rat" = deer. At least in my posts.
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OK. I learned something new. Tree rat is included in the Dictionary of Urban Slang but forest rat is not. I do not advocate hunting deer with an air rifle.
My Aussie does a fairly good job of chasing the deer out of my yard. We also have the occasional Black Bear to deal with but my dog will not leave the deck when one is in the area.
 
I'm kind of in the same boat. I've got some Cabellas gift cards and some cash from Christmas. Thinking about picking up a .22 pistol - just because it'd be fun to have.
 
Anthony said:
I think of deer more as forest cows that can run.

Rat = small

Deer = big, especially the Mulies I used to stalk in Colorado.
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4 point (Western count) outside Montrose in 1982. Got 115 pounds of meat from that animal.
 
My German Shorthair used to chase them in my back yard. There breed mandates they wait to flush. So he'd stand there looking at me for release, and I'd wait a few moments and just say in a low voice. GET THEM.

He caught up to a big buck two properties down, and looked back at me with a look like, "what do I do now?" That dog could RUN. I called him back laughing my *ss off.
 
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