[NA] Homeowners Assn violations end result jail time

Bob Noel said:
I’m scratching my head trying to figure out what you are talking about (no disrespect, just trying to decode it)
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I had my AI assistant interpret & upgrade his verbiage (2nd paragraph only) and this is what it spit out :biggrin:

(no offense to @hindsight2020 meant at all):

"Eschewing the rancor of societal discontent for a moment, let us speak plainly—but in riddles. The cunning abridgement of one's burdens of habitation—be it the albatross of mortgage, maintenance, or dignified domicile—serves as a cornerstone, not a crack, in the Byzantine edifice of my self-fashioned, quasi-F.I.R.E.-esque strategy for prelapsarian withdrawal from the wage-slave industrial apparatus.

Long ago did I relinquish the Sisyphean charade known as the W-2 paradigm—a reliquary of former delusions, now suitable only for the rusted altars of the credulous and the compliant. For I, alas, lacked either the stomach or soul for the Olympian grifts of pension-pillaging, the Kafkaesque financialization of life's meager totems, or suckling like a bloated heifer at the syrupy teat of corporate subsidy.

Thus, by process not divine but deductive, what remains to the circumspect and uncorrupted but the monastic trimming of the ledger’s fat? One must chisel away—stone by dollar—the tyrannies of recurring expenditure. And viewed through the cool-eyed prism of utility maximization, that genteel Orwellian artifact known as the Homeowners Association reveals itself not as boon but parasite, antithetical to my ledger’s lean geometry and my march toward fiscal Valhalla."

:dunno:
 
Our neighborhood has a lot of common areas. A lake with a walking path, two parks, a pool, and fancy entrances. Gotta have an HOA or all that stuff turns to garbage quick. People complain about the HOA, but it doesn't stop all the families from enjoying a walk around the landscaped lake in the evening.
 
sourdough44 said:
Not sure I’d want to deal with an HOA. I don’t like to many rules, yes I keep the place tidy.
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I think neighborhood covenants can handle the basics without the need for HOA critters. You couldn't pay me to live in a place with an HOA. I've never seen/heard of an HOA that people were enthusiastic about while living there, and most refuse to be in a place with an HOA after having lived with one. Too many busy-bodies trying to nitpick the most minor of infractions or enforce their own version of appearance standards.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I think neighborhood covenants can handle the basics without the need for HOA critters. You couldn't pay me to live in a place with an HOA. I've never seen/heard of an HOA that people were enthusiastic about while living there, and most refuse to be in a place with an HOA after having lived with one. Too many busy-bodies trying to nitpick the most minor of infractions or enforce their own version of appearance standards.
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When one has a next door neighbor whose property neglect directly and negatively impacts your quality of life, and the city will not do enough, then HOAs start to seem like a good idea. (Personal experience)
 
Baked Potato said:
When one has a next door neighbor whose property neglect directly and negatively impacts your quality of life, and the city will not do enough, then HOAs start to seem like a good idea. (Personal experience)
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There are many things which are great ideas and terrible in execution...
 
2-Bit Speed said:
There are many things which are great ideas and terrible in execution...
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The Star Wars sequels?

But yes - I've lived in two HOA communities and have never had an issue, though I do not doubt the horror stories we read on the news. It all hinges on who is in charge, I guess.
 
Baked Potato said:
The Star Wars sequels?

But yes - I've lived in two HOA communities and have never had an issue, though I do not doubt the horror stories we read on the news. It all hinges on who is in charge, I guess.
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Who's in charge and how they delegate. The one we lived in had a paid company to inspect, flag violations, and manage fines and collections. I'm reasonably certain they got to keep some percentage of the fines/collection fees as compensation for the transaction. They were, shall we say, picky.

Careful how you incentivise people-they will figure out how to optimize the compensation.
 
jsstevens said:
Who's in charge and how they delegate. The one we lived in had a paid company to inspect, flag violations, and manage fines and collections. I'm reasonably certain they got to keep some percentage of the fines/collection fees as compensation for the transaction. They were, shall we say, picky.

Careful how you incentivise people-they will figure out how to optimize the compensation.
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That doesn't seem, well, ethical! I've wondered if it would be worth it to offload the work to a third party (I'm not a board member but my wife has been at times) but if this is how these companies operate then no thanks.

We all see the abusive HOA presidents and their prey in the news, but the types of things that mine care the most about (ensuring that visitor spaces are readily available and clearing sidewalks within 24 hours of snowfall, for example) do not make click-worthy news articles.
 
jsstevens said:
I think the most relevant qualification for an HOA board member be that they don't want the job.
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A lot of truth to this.

Unfortunately, when someone steps up because it has to be done, they get abused by others anyways. Happened to my friend. He was subjected to harassment and legal threats for trying to solve a problem that had to be fixed.
 
Ed Haywood said:
A lot of truth to this.

Unfortunately, when someone steps up because it has to be done, they get abused by others anyways. Happened to my friend. He was subjected to harassment and legal threats for trying to solve a problem that had to be fixed.
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True enough. Thanks less work and no good deed goes unpunished, etc.

We certainly tried our best to both be good neighbors and not abuse the HOA in any way. But it didn't work with the "management" company. And, to be fair, I really don't attribute any malice to them. But I'm sure they believed they were policing the covenants and rules. But human nature is what it is.
 
jsstevens said:
....I'm reasonably certain they got to keep some percentage of the fines/collection fees as compensation for the transaction....
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That is shocking but apparently it's legal in some states. In NC we got rid of the red light cameras when it was disclosed ~80% of the revenue was going to the company managing the cameras. But even if they didn't get a commission, management companies can be aggressive, based on board direction, to prove they're doing their job. My neighborhood recalled our board b/c they were going bananas with citations/fees. In one case it was so bad a neighbor filed a lawsuit against the HOA. Our insurance company wrote a 60K check and the neighborhood kicked in an additional ~25K to settle.
 
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Baked Potato said:
When one has a next door neighbor whose property neglect directly and negatively impacts your quality of life, and the city will not do enough, then HOAs start to seem like a good idea. (Personal experience)
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Eh, that's why it's a free country I guess. There's a house two doors up from mine (which I can't see from my house due to being uphill/ around curve) that lets their yard be "natural" and only mows it once a month or so. Has all sorts of yard ornaments (bird baths/trellis/etc) which looks more like a hoarder/abandoned house, but it doesn't impact my quality of life at all. Even has a fox den in the back yard, lol. It's in a neighborhood with houses that are mostly 2K+ sq ft and well kept. However, we don't have an HOA and she isn't hurting anybody. Live and let live.
 
This thread outlines in exquisite detail why I will never, EVER buy a home that is under the auspices of an HOA. These kinds of boards tend to attract Karens by the dozen, for whom any scrap of power becomes a mandate from God to be as intrusive as possible. My brother has a home in such a community, and it is driving him bat-s*** crazy.
 
My observation over 25 years of living in an HOA is there are Karens on both sides, and it's the Karen residents who find the HOA so oppressive.
 
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Then again covenants set on a property can make that property worthless.

A number of years ago I wanted to buy a fore closed property. The covenants were many, including visitors had to be pre-screened by the owners of the covenants before visiting, restricting the number and type of pets allowed, no out door activity after 8 pm and any landscaping had to be approved. The property was out of the city limits, 5 acres and the driveway went through the property of the people that set the covenants. And the owners of the covenants had never owned the property. Basically the owner of the property would only be allowed to stay in the house and not have owners rights.

I learned later that the owners of the property that the driveway went through charged the bank that owned the property $75k to keep the driveway open. Then the new owners of the property sued the owners of the covenants for $175k to keep the covenants. The covenants were dropped.

small town
 
judypilot said:
These kinds of boards tend to attract Karens by the dozen, for whom any scrap of power becomes a mandate from God to be as intrusive as possible.
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Disagree. Certainly there are instances of this happening, but the 95% of HOA communities that work reasonably well never make the news.
 
judypilot said:
This thread outlines in exquisite detail why I will never, EVER buy a home that is under the auspices of an HOA. These kinds of boards tend to attract Karens by the dozen, for whom any scrap of power becomes a mandate from God to be as intrusive as possible. My brother has a home in such a community, and it is driving him bat-s*** crazy.
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So, how would you arrange living on a private airstrip? Rely on the homeowners to voluntarily pay for runway maintenance/upkeep?

Our HOA rules on the private strip. They are very onerous:

Houses are to be 1500sq ft minimum. No maximum.
Fly Safe.
No raising of livestock or poultry. Horses allowed with approval. Dogs and cats are cool too.
No leaving trash out, or using your lot as a landfill.
No unlicensed vehicles or vehicle maintenance in public view. (In garage or hangar is fine)
ATVs are specifically approved for use.
Any flags must be flown in accordance with state/federal law.
No parking on the roads for 24 hours plus (the roads are also taxiways)
No trailers/doublewides/modulars.
No living in a tent/shack/barn/outbuilding/hangar as residence while main residence is being built unless approved by developer.
No yard signs except for sale (the house/lot) signs.
HOA dues are $275/acre-year
 
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I enjoy living in places with personality. I don't mind if my neighbor has an orange door and purple shutters. I was the one driving a nasty old car for years and still change my own oil on the driveway (well, now I have been relegated to assistant oil changer). I don't mind if people leave their Christmas decor up until March or put it up in October. I figure the neighbors make garbage, too, and if they leave their cans at the curb, it really doesn't affect my life.

I would never fit in an HOA neighborhood, though. I prefer growing vegetables in my backyard over manicured landscaping and I would rather pay $75/year for a season pool pass over $75/month for a neighborhood pool. If the "HOA" was solely in regards to a runway and maintaining it, I would consider it, but for normal, every day living, I will never consider any house where someone else can complain and fine me because I planted the wrong color flower (my sister) or because the fence isn't painted the exact right color of stain (my parents).
 
EdFred said:
So, how would you arrange living on a private airstrip? Rely on the homeowners to voluntarily pay for runway maintenance/upkeep?

Our HOA rules on the private strip. They are very onerous:

Houses are to be 1500sq ft minimum. No maximum.
Fly Safe.
No raising of livestock or poultry. Horses allowed with approval. Dogs and cats are cool too.
No leaving trash out, or using your lot as a landfill.
No unlicensed vehicles or vehicle maintenance in public view. (In garage or hangar is fine)
ATVs are specifically approved for use.
Any flags must be flown in accordance with state/federal law.
No parking on the roads for 24 hours plus (the roads are also taxiways)
No trailers/doublewides/modulars.
No living in a tent/shack/barn/outbuilding/hangar as residence while main residence is being built unless approved by developer.
No yard signs except for sale (the house/lot) signs.
HOA dues are $275/acre-year
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Most all of that can be addressed via covenants without needing HOA busy bodies. Carrying about unlicensed vehicles/maintenance, yard signs, or flags is the stuff of Karens.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Most all of that can be addressed via covenants without needing HOA busy bodies.
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Who's gonna deal with the boneheads who can't/won't follow the covenants? That's the HOA's job. Their other job is to make sure the public spaces are maintained, which generally implies a dues structure. Someone has to manage all of that.
 
kyleb said:
Who's gonna deal with the boneheads who can't/won't follow the covenants? That's the HOA's job. Their other job is to make sure the public spaces are maintained, which generally implies a dues structure. Someone has to manage all of that.
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Covenants are legally binding and usually filed with the county. The other residents can file with the appropriate coubty legal entity for injunctions and forced compliance. It's no different than an HOA, just don't need a panel of people to manage it with monthly dues and power trips.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Most all of that can be addressed via covenants without needing HOA busy bodies. Carrying about unlicensed vehicles/maintenance, yard signs, or flags is the stuff of Karens.
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Yeah, but do you really want to live in a nice airpark, where Joe Bob has had his 5-color 86 Iroc-Z up on blocks in the front yard for 6 months. Or like the people 3 tenants ago next door (not airpark) that it looked like a yard sale 24/7?
 
SoonerAviator said:
Covenants are legally binding and usually filed with the county. The other residents can file with the appropriate coubty legal entity for injunctions and forced compliance.
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After dealing with about the 3rd lunkhead that way, you'll be either moving or wishing you had an HOA lawyer to handle it.

Beyond that, who's gonna handle the maintenance/upkeep on the common areas?

These are the kind of community concerns a good HOA will take care of without overburdening the handful of folks who don't sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else "handle it".
 
EdFred said:
Yeah, but do you really want to live in a nice airpark, where Joe Bob has had his 5-color 86 Iroc-Z up on blocks in the front yard for 6 months. Or like the people 3 tenants ago next door (not airpark) that it looked like a yard sale 24/7?
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It doesn't bother me at all having a project car in the driveway. Bothers others though I guess.
 
kyleb said:
After dealing with about the 3rd lunkhead that way, you'll be either moving or wishing you had an HOA lawyer to handle it.

Beyond that, who's gonna handle the maintenance/upkeep on the common areas?

These are the kind of community concerns a good HOA will take care of without overburdening the handful of folks who don't sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else "handle it".
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Maintaining common areas is a different scenario, but dues can still be handled without an HOA being responsible for dealing with the other stuff.
 
EdFred said:
How many cars/projects before it becomes a problem? Can he run a junkyard?
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Isn't that the problem? People don't have a problem with others living life so HOAs paint doom's-day scenarios where everyone starts running junkyards and demolition derbies on their property.
 
2-Bit Speed said:
Isn't that the problem? People don't have a problem with others living life so HOAs paint doom's-day scenarios where everyone starts running junkyards and demolition derbies on their property.
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There's a guy around the corner that puts actual junkyards to shame. Everyone is unhappy about it, but not in an HOA so it just remains an eyesore. So, not a doomsday, but an actual scenario.
 
EdFred said:
There's a guy around the corner that puts actual junkyards to shame. Everyone is unhappy about it, but not in an HOA so it just remains an eyesore. So, not a doomsday, but an actual scenario.
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I live in the last house at the edge of an HOA development. Of course my immediate neighbor on the non-HOA side is a neglected property and older house. Rotted trees (one of which fell and destroyed my deck), rats, termites, trash cans and stuff collecting water so it's basically a mosquito farm, and unreachable vines growing up the fence on his side and up trees just on our property line and killing them. And of course the sidewalks (which are heavily traveled for walkers in the neighborhood) are never shoveled after snow. I've emailed the city a bunch of times but have no recourse really. If he was part of our HOA we could take care of many if not all of these things.
 
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Mahneuvers said:
That is shocking but apparently it's legal in some states. In NC we got rid of the red light cameras when it was disclosed ~80% of the revenue was going to the company managing the cameras. .
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That happened some years ago in NJ. A company sold a bunch of towns a plan where they would install and maintain red light cams at no charge. Local police would verify periodically that calibration was correct, and they would review every violation photo before issuing tickets. Profits would be split 50:50

It worked ok at first, other than it gummed up traffic horribly. One could no longer follow a car into an intersection to make a left, because if the light turned yellow you were ticketed. So everyone would wait until the intersection was clear in both directions before shooting through. Often only one car would be able to make a left with each light change

But the real problems started later. After the police were satisfied the calibration stayed good and the violation photos were all valid in the first year or two, the police stopped checking both-no doubt part of the red light cam company’s business plan. That’s when-it was discovered later-the company started recalibrating the cameras. Drivers would get violated earlier, then earlier still, in the light cycle. Tickets would go out automatically without police review. The company and the police departments were making so much money that neither were interested in investigating the complaints.

When it finally unravelled, the state passed a law banning the cameras, because the towns that had them were fighting to keep them.
 
Beachy said:
I’m “supposed” to attend an HOA meeting this Saturday at 10:00 AM. Sounds more like a good time to go flying to me…
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Attend the meetings, keep them in check. Our HOA was awesome, in a great neighborhood. The ex still lives there. In the house I picked out.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Attend the meetings,
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I lived in quad home for a few years. The HOA took care of mowing, exterior maintenance, etc. If you had an exterior maintenance issue that needed to be addressed, you had to show up at a meeting to inform them.

In four years, I was never home for a meeting. Either got back too late, or it was an overnight trip.
 
Ventucky Red said:
One of the reasons why we sold the condo when we didn't need to. Assessment here, your renters are doing this there, wait another assessment to repaint... we just painted three years ago... new roofs.. and the list goes on. And it just so happens...

Then the managing company upped their fees... No thanks... we're done.

When I lived there I would go to the board meetings... it sounded like this, so I stopped

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I've been asked by my close proximity neighbors to get on the board. As I keep reminding them - I get paid (and paid very well) to be aggravated. I don't do it for free. I've been trying to get out of this place for years, but welcome to Denver housing market. Anything I can afford is not where I'd be willing to live (inconvenient for work, airport, etc). Any place that's practical for me, far out of my budget.
 
This week I received an email complaining about a cardboard box on my front porch. The box sits on top of a small wooden barrel, something that would be used to pickle large quantities of cucumbers - about 1 foot in diameter, about 18 in high. No complaints about the barrel, but get rid of the box. By the way, the barrel has been there for many years, the box for about 3. Here's my response to the property manager, she's only been on the job at this location for about 3 months. No idea if she has any other experience:

Welcome to property management. You get paid to get all the complaints and problems. It aint personal, but it's your job.

I wish to point out to [mgt company] and the HOA Board, there are numerous homes with outward facing fences that are in serious decay/damage. These fences are more than 40 years old. This has been brought up in the recent past with refusal to remediate by the Board. I would remind both that it is HOA responsibility to repair/replace the external fencing, not the homeowner, as per the Cherokee I Homeowners Association, Inc. MAINTENANCE, REPAIR, AND INSURANCE RESPONSIBILITY CHART, dated June, 2018, specifically Declaration, Article VII, Section 4.

Let's continue...
  • Inadequate number and location of recycling containers.
  • Inadequate number and location of garbage bin (those big suckers)
  • Sprinklers incorrectly aimed such that the only areas receiving water are sidewalks and the street
  • Sprinklers incorrectly aimed such that the landscaped areas don't get any water
  • Applying weed killer with no advance notice - many residents have serious health problems that are aggravated by these chemicals. (reference: Colorado's Registry of Pesticide-Sensitive Persons)
  • I'm still waiting for the electrical company or anyone to repair the landscape destruction caused a few years ago during installation of the new lighting system.
Sure, I'll remove the cardboard box. Hence I will no longer remove the poisonous mushrooms that are spread even further when landscape mows. Not my problem if any local pets or wild animals become ill or die due to the proliferation of the mushrooms.
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I have, on occasion, considered getting a number of selectively located residents on the Pesticide Registry. This would prevent all landscape maintenance on the property grounds. Think of the cost savings - 3-4 times a year weed/fertilizer application forbidden by state law.
 
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