NA could we replace china? NA

Some of the crap is manufactured to US-acceptable standards. Since this is an aviation forum, the 162 is one example.

Cessna sent them all to the crusher... probably not the best example. Hehehe.

We make the mistake of pretending corporations are still beholden to their patron countries... that hasn't been true for at least the last 20 years.

Maybe it was because I worked for a multi-national in high school and beyond, but I've never understood the concept of "patron country" or definitely never felt like any business I've ever worked for was beholden to a geographic place. This would be oil, telecom, and tech ... none of them have ever given a damn about where their mailing address is located. One of the telecoms I worked for (acquired by them) still has a broom closet in Bermuda listed as Corporate HQ.

I have a family member there who would import clothing and then cut the label off and sow her own label on (which would carry a Made in RSA tag), to increase the value for resale. She would also take some generic clothes and sow Billabong logos on and then gift those as gifts to her grandkids - she's quite proud of this in fact. Bizarre person.

I have a fake NFL classic throwback jersey assembled from parts by some dude on eBay. Family member who gave it to me as a gift told me when I exclaimed that they'd spent WAY too much on me for that particular gift and I was concerned about it for them.

Know what else? If the NFL wants over $200 for a shirt, I don't care mine is a counterfeit at all. Screw 'em. It's a shirt, not a freaking dinner for two at the Ritz.

That is, in part, due to the US Federal Reserve Banks collectively increasing balance sheets from about $800 Billion in 2004 to $4,400 Billion currently. Most of it is in T-bills, T-bonds and mortgage backed securities. The Fed also holds in custody for foreign official sector accounts about $2,800 Billion in Treasuries, up from $1,200 B in 2008 but down from a record of over $3,000 Billion a year ago. That declining trend is an indicator of the current difficulties in China, which is selling foreign reserve holdings including US Treasuries in an effort to prop up the Yuan as part of its efforts to control significant capital outflows from the mainland - prior to this recent selling it was the largest single foreign holder of US Treasury debt, just ahead of Japan.

The big concerns are whether the Fed can reduce its balance sheet without disrupting the US economy, and how much more it can increase its balance sheet if needed when the next US recession finally arrives. In the meantime I think betting against the US economy has been a lousy trade for many decades, and I don't see it being particularly good odds at present despite the histrionics of the internet "crisis pundits" predicting the demise of the US$ or the decline of the USA itself. Global capital flows, including those continuing to pour in FROM China, suggest quite the opposite at present.

If there's a bank that's "too big to fail", and poses a very real threat to he nation's economic health, the Fed is certainly it. No histrionics here about doom and gloom, but central banking is a serious problem in the modern world. They screw up as much as they fix, at this point. But we really have little choice in such a debt laden society, at all levels.
 
That was my point! US acceptable. We get what we ask for, no free lunch.
 
Maybe it was because I worked for a multi-national in high school and beyond, but I've never understood the concept of "patron country" or definitely never felt like any business I've ever worked for was beholden to a geographic place. This would be oil, telecom, and tech ... none of them have ever given a damn about where their mailing address is located. One of the telecoms I worked for (acquired by them) still has a broom closet in Bermuda listed as Corporate HQ.

Exactly. But there are people who talk about having to protect AMERICAN companies or buy AMERICAN.... then proceed to describe what they'd do to make life easier on the GEs or Exxon-Mobils... and other examples of multi-national corporations that could not care less about where they have offices at as long as they're making the largest amount of profit possible.
 
Cheney's old firm Halliburton moved its global headquarters to the tax haven of Dubai years ago. So what? I don't think nations can or should individually force a company to locate somewhere, and can only control or regulate only what it does in their separate jurisdiction.

Governments picking "winners and losers", subsidizing what they convince themselves are "strategic future industries" is something that is utter folly and invariably a waste of tax $. Right now we have some jurisdictions heavily subsidizing the purchase of $100,000 Teslas. Those people do not need to be subsidized by people than earn far less than they do.

Government has a role to protect the public interest. These aren't the ways to do it.
 
Exactly. But there are people who talk about having to protect AMERICAN companies or buy AMERICAN.... then proceed to describe what they'd do to make life easier on the GEs or Exxon-Mobils... and other examples of multi-national corporations that could not care less about where they have offices at as long as they're making the largest amount of profit possible.

With shipping being as inexpensive as it is and as fast as it is, these days, I kinda don't consider any company that can ship any goods, not an "international" company. If you make something in your basement, you can probably figure out how to sell it anywhere on the planet these days, from any developed country. If someone wants it.

Heck I have motors and other parts for the vacuum robots headed here from China right now. The motor was $1.34 SHIPPED direct from Shenzhen. It's a piece of crap and will fail in six months, but honestly who cares? It was $1.34 WITH shipping. Literally pocket change. My danish at the coffee shop cost me more today.

That reminds me. I need another knock off Arduino board for a project. I'm going to have to go shell out $3 so it'll be here by end of February. LOL. The slow boat stuff really does come on the slow boat!

Maybe all the Tariff lovers will slap a 100% tariff on those items and it'll be still less than lunch at McDs?

And of course the tarriff money will CERTAINLY be put toward the government's loan principal amounts and not squandered somewhere never to be seen again... hahaha. Right. Just what we need. A VAT like most European governments and the Aussies... that'll fix it all.

I'd be happy to buy that little motor from someone making it here in the States for even ten times the price if they'd warranty it in the robot for 60 months. (10 times what I get out of a
Chinese one.) I doubt that price will get me a miniature motor that runs 5 years.

Mostly because I've looked. Grainger is selling the same Chinese motor for $8 and has no better option available in that size. They also won't let me buy it alone at that price. I can't meet the minimum order.
 
Cheney's old firm Halliburton moved its global headquarters to the tax haven of Dubai years ago. So what? I don't think nations can or should individually force a company to locate somewhere, and can only control or regulate only what it does in their separate jurisdiction.

Governments picking "winners and losers", subsidizing what they convince themselves are "strategic future industries" is something that is utter folly and invariably a waste of tax $. Right now we have some jurisdictions heavily subsidizing the purchase of $100,000 Teslas. Those people do not need to be subsidized by people than earn far less than they do.

Government has a role to protect the public interest. These aren't the ways to do it.

I agree completely. My beef is the pervasive belief that American companies have American interests... when there aren't many true American companies left... and even fewer companies that have any interest in American interests. I mean pragmatism says that companies do what is best for those companies... but cynicism reminds us that companies are run by individuals... and those individuals are going to do what is best for them... even if it is to the detriment of the employees and the company.
 
If you want a real understanding of why the Chinese products are the way they are, read "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. Fascinating read.

That book was published 8 years ago and the facts written therein probably closer to 10 years ago. I'd bet a lot has changed since then.

China is now outsourcing to Southeast Asia and Indonesia now, by the way.

I have a sneaking suspicion (unconfirmed, of course) that China has replaced a good portion of their slave labor with automation. There's a bottom limit to how low you can reduce production/manufacturing costs with slave labor but robots consistently get better/faster/cheaper.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion (unconfirmed, of course) that China has replaced a good portion of their slave labor with automation. There's a bottom limit to how low you can reduce production/manufacturing costs with slave labor but robots consistently get better/faster/cheaper.

I don't think you know how cheap human labor is there.

The reason becomes glaringly clear with this graphic.

http://m.imgur.com/CK6aONG?r
 
I don't think you know how cheap human labor is there.

The reason becomes glaringly clear with this graphic.

http://m.imgur.com/CK6aONG?r

China has been losing labour intensive manufacturing to Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Burma in recent years. It's labour costs are no longer competitive for low value goods. There are lots of myths and out of date information about the Chines economy. It is, today, dominated by final assembly activities of increasingly higher value products, dependent on massive imports of components and sub-assemblies, much of it from other SE Asian nations.

It is tracking a similar evolution to Japan, and later South Korea, but is doing so in a much compressed time frame.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion (unconfirmed, of course) that China has replaced a good portion of their slave labor with automation. There's a bottom limit to how low you can reduce production/manufacturing costs with slave labor but robots consistently get better/faster/cheaper.

Automation is not embraced there the way it is here. China has 1.6 billion people to keep employed. The government very much wants all of those people to have a job so they don't riot in the streets and ultimately change the form of governance. After all, the last thing the government wants is to be replaced by a new, different government.
 
China has been losing labour intensive manufacturing to Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Burma in recent years. It's labour costs are no longer competitive for low value goods. There are lots of myths and out of date information about the Chines economy. It is, today, dominated by final assembly activities of increasingly higher value products, dependent on massive imports of components and sub-assemblies, much of it from other SE Asian nations.

It is tracking a similar evolution to Japan, and later South Korea, but is doing so in a much compressed time frame.

That's exactly right. In fact, on the outskirts of Hanoi there are Chinese owned industrial parks for textile and machinery production that seem to defy Vietnam's outstanding embargo on Chinese products and industry. For a while Thailand was the go to place for sub-assembly contracting but now that shifting to Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam, in that order. And to some degree mainland Malasia but that place is getting pricey these days. Especially Singapore.
 
Cause a little less crap than china? Russia? Really? You been under a rock the last decade?

If this was the 70s or something, sure, but nowadays china is the bigger threat and issue, also their culture does not mesh with ours compared to modern Russia.


But I do enjoy a little chuckle when politicians/media call Russia our enemy, but give china a free pass.
 
China has been losing labour intensive manufacturing to Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Burma in recent years. It's labour costs are no longer competitive for low value goods. There are lots of myths and out of date information about the Chines economy. It is, today, dominated by final assembly activities of increasingly higher value products, dependent on massive imports of components and sub-assemblies, much of it from other SE Asian nations.

It is tracking a similar evolution to Japan, and later South Korea, but is doing so in a much compressed time frame.

This why the circle on the map. It's a way to show the reason, and covers many countries on the geopolitical map.
 
But I do enjoy a little chuckle when politicians/media call Russia our enemy, but give china a free pass.

I'll concede to the hypocrisy... But neither is our friend.... make no mistake, anything Putin does, he does only to expand his influence...
 
I'll concede to the hypocrisy... But neither is our friend.... make no mistake, anything Putin does, he does only to expand his influence...

Which is different from every other world "leader" how?
 
I'll concede to the hypocrisy... But neither is our friend.... make no mistake, anything Putin does, he does only to expand his influence...

"Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests"
Lord Palmerston
 
I hope the door doesn't hit him in the azz on his way out.

He cost me quite a bit of money while he was in office, tried to erode my constitutional rights, and made us a larger target for terrorists than we already were.

Maybe he'll retire in china, he sure seems like embrace their values a lot more than ours.
 
He cost me quite a bit of money while he was in office.

Can you elaborate? Purely asking out of curiosity - I promise I won't have any partisan comeback - just asking for education.
 
Can you elaborate? Purely asking out of curiosity - I promise I won't have any partisan comeback - just asking for education.

Obama care plus my personal tax bracket.

Less money I have to spend in my community, less money for me and mine :(
 
Obama care plus my personal tax bracket.

Obama care I can see.

You are in a personal tax bracket that went up since Bush? Is it that 35% to 39.6% change that kicked in? Or something else (like deductions that went away or a business tax etc.)?
 
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South Africa makes all sorts of stuff, most anything you buy in Africa is made in the RSA, salt and pepper to VW polos, still a beautiful country and much more American than china.

We were in South Africa and Botswana about 8 years ago. The stores were full of Chinese-made merchandise, and there was a lot from India as well. The streets were commonly full of European, Chinese and Indian-made vehicles.
 
We were in South Africa and Botswana about 8 years ago. The stores were full of Chinese-made merchandise, and there was a lot from India as well. The streets were commonly full of European, Chinese and Indian-made vehicles.

Actually South Africa does make a lot of vehicles. The most right-hand-drive cars in the world are made in South Africa - it's about 7.5% of the South African economy, and it exports just over 50% of its manufactured vehicles.
 
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