N/A Comprehensive 0r Collision?

[ejensen]

A shopping cart, at least we surmise from the shape of the dent, nailed my wife's car. Don't know if was being driven at the time or not. Anyway damage was $500 which is the deductabe on our collision. The comprehesive deductable is $100. The company says it falls under collision, from the words in the policy I'm not convinced. What experience do others have?

Eric

 

[gismo]

A shopping cart, at least we surmise from the shape of the dent, nailed my wife's car. Don't know if was being driven at the time or not. Anyway damage was $500 which is the deductabe on our collision. The comprehesive deductable is $100. The company says it falls under collision, from the words in the policy I'm not convinced. What experience do others have?

Eric

In every policy I've ever had or seen, if it was being driven (even if stopped in the road or in a parking lot) it's collision. If it was parked, IE: engine off and/or transmission in park and not in a through lane on a roadway it's comprehensive. They may be saying collision because you aren't sure it was parked.

 

[woodstock]

definitely fight for this one. if they manage to tack it onto collision your rates will go up. comprehensive, they won't.

sounds more like comprehensive to me, despite the fact that the cart did collide with you.

insurance company adjusters are SOBs, they'll screw you if you let them. this is a test to see how much you will scream.

 

[etsisk]

In every policy I've ever had or seen, if it was being driven (even if stopped in the road or in a parking lot) it's collision. If it was parked, IE: engine off and/or transmission in park and not in a through lane on a roadway it's comprehensive. They may be saying collision because you aren't sure it was parked.

No, he was joking that he didn't know if the shopping cart was being "driven" . . . I was under the impression that his wife's car was parked.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

My impression with the insurance industry is (apologies to anyone who is "pro-insurance") that they will deny every first claim!
Sounds like another dirty trick to me... how long have you been with this company?
A gal who works as an independant agent says claims are sometimes paid on the basis of how loyal the customer is, how much business they represent, how well they pay premiums.
Good luck!
Hey Eric. How can anyone be sure it was even a shopping cart?

 

[Ghery]

A gal who works as an independant agent says claims are sometimes paid on the basis of how loyal the customer is, how much business they represent, how well they pay premiums.

Well, maybe that's why State Farm pays my claims with no hassel. Only been with them for 35 years.

 

[Henning]

A shopping cart, at least we surmise from the shape of the dent, nailed my wife's car. Don't know if was being driven at the time or not. Anyway damage was $500 which is the deductabe on our collision. The comprehesive deductable is $100. The company says it falls under collision, from the words in the policy I'm not convinced. What experience do others have?

Eric

Listen closely, this falls under comprehensive without a doubt. The next time you speak with the adjuster about this claim use these Exact words :From what I read in my policy, it appears you are acting in BAD FAITH. Bad Faith is a term every insurance company is scared to death of. You will get it settled and fixed quick.

BTW amongst other licenses, I'm also licensed as an All Lines insurance adjuster.

 

[tom.]

In my experience anytime an insurance company pays and can't subrogate you end up screwed in the end. I find I'm financially better off in the long run fixing (or ignoring) parking lot dings myself.

Just curious, what does $500 damage look like these days?

 

[woodstock]

In my experience anytime an insurance company pays and can't subrogate you end up screwed in the end. I find I'm financially better off in the long run fixing (or ignoring) parking lot dings myself.

Just curious, what does $500 damage look like these days?

but I'm pretty sure comprehensive doesn't raise your rates. collision most certainly will.

500 bucks is maybe a quarter of an inch deep.

 

[Michael]

being in the business and dealing with insurance copanies all day long...I can say that a rock breaking your window falls under comprehensive. even vandalism falls under comprehensive as far as glass goes.. So why wouldnt it here? my guess is because the agent doesnt know any better.
As far as raising rates...under comprehensive, you can have as many claims as you want, they cannot raise your rates (state laws vary)however, they can raise your deductible. and when its time to renew your policy, they can cancel you or write a new policy at a higher rate.

 

[gismo]

No, he was joking that he didn't know if the shopping cart was being "driven" . . . I was under the impression that his wife's car was parked.

There's no way that this would be collision coverage then. If you think about it, aside from fire and theft, every comprehensive coverage incident involves some sort of collision, IOW something hit's your car while parked. That includes hailstones, pedestrians, bicycles, doors and bumpers on other cars, and shopping carts.

 

[woodstock]

Eric, Capn Henning gave you the best possible advice here. I'd be very curious if they put their determination of collision in writing already, or if you are still in the arguing stages.

I'd be inclined to turn them in even if they "change their minds" because he is clearly trying to see if you will just accept it. to me, that's already reached bad faith. I hate insurance companies. they are a necessary evil, but why can't they just be honest?

 

[ejensen]

Thanks all for the input.

The car was parked and unoccupied. In fact, it was on the passenger side so wasn't noticed until home in the garage.

The damage was two 3" creases about an inch apart. Deep enough to break the paint. $500 was the low estimate. They only did the door. Dealer want to repaint the whole side for a grand.

I've been with the agent for over 20 years. They are an independant agent so shop the policy around. We been with Safeco for quite a few years but not the whole 20.

Here are the words from the State disclosure form for our policy. I haven't found the full policy yet. They don't send every year so it got buried. Answer from our agent was that it wasn't a falling object! And vadalism is 'willful'.

COLLISION coverage pays for the damage to your own automobile. It provides coverage when you automobile collides with another automobile or object, or if your automobile overturns.

COMPREHENSIVE coverage pays for damage to your automobile from causes such as fire, theft, vandalism, hail, and falling objects.

 

[gismo]

Here are the words from the State disclosure form for our policy. I haven't found the full policy yet. They don't send every year so it got buried. Answer from our agent was that it wasn't a falling object! And vadalism is 'willful'.

COLLISION coverage pays for the damage to your own automobile. It provides coverage when you automobile collides with another automobile or object, or if your automobile overturns.

COMPREHENSIVE coverage pays for damage to your automobile from causes such as fire, theft, vandalism, hail, and falling objects.

The claims agent can prove the damage wasn't willful? I don't think so. I do think you're getting fed a crock of foul smelling stuff.

 

[ejensen]

The claims agent can prove the damage wasn't willful? I don't think so. I do think you're getting fed a crock of foul smelling stuff.

What I'm beginning to wonder is how much the agent is working with us. I think she just called with a general question and read back what she was told. Haven't been too happy with communication the last few years. This may be the straw that gets me looking elsewhere.

 

[ejensen]

definitely fight for this one. if they manage to tack it onto collision your rates will go up. comprehensive, they won't.

sounds more like comprehensive to me, despite the fact that the cart did collide with you.

insurance company adjusters are SOBs, they'll screw you if you let them. this is a test to see how much you will scream.

It is under the collision deductable so there won't be a claim there.

You know, I haven't had a bad experience yet with an insurance company. Not that I've had many claim. A couple years ago, I had hail damage I didn't notice for a couple months. Called up and had a check in about a week. Many years ago, a fender bender on ice. One phone call and never heard another word, all taken care of. So I really can't complain based on past history.

 

[Henning]

Eric, Capn Henning gave you the best possible advice here. I'd be very curious if they put their determination of collision in writing already, or if you are still in the arguing stages.

I'd be inclined to turn them in even if they "change their minds" because he is clearly trying to see if you will just accept it. to me, that's already reached bad faith. I hate insurance companies. they are a necessary evil, but why can't they just be honest?

To be fair, this kind of scuffling has been rare in the last decade. The insurance companies I have done work for have standing orders, pay them everything the policy says they have coming to them. There were several Bad Faith suits a bit over a decade ago that cost one company $10 million on a $10k denial. There were about 7 other very similar suits that year and the next with similar results. It pretty much changed the industry. Typically this type of issue is one that results with new adjusters who think they are doing what the company wants, it is not. I have worked quite a few claims in catastrophes where I paid out money (with my file managers approval) that were not owed just to "make it go away". For the most part, especially independent adjusters such as myself, want to pay you every dime they can justify in the file log. We get paid a percentage of the claim. We have NO stake in saving the company money, and I personally have never felt pressured to do so. Like I said, this is typically a newbie issue and does not normally reflect the views of management.

 

[ejensen]

Eric, Capn Henning gave you the best possible advice here. I'd be very curious if they put their determination of collision in writing already, or if you are still in the arguing stages.

I'd be inclined to turn them in even if they "change their minds" because he is clearly trying to see if you will just accept it. to me, that's already reached bad faith. I hate insurance companies. they are a necessary evil, but why can't they just be honest?

Nothing in writing, I've haven't pushed it at all yet. Just a phone call to our agent who then called the company. For this low amount we haven't decided whether to push or not. I want to find the full policy words and then decide. My experience with claim in very low (knock on wood) so posting here help me see if I was off base on where the damage fell.

 

[ejensen]

Thanks Henning, that's been my very limited experience too.

 

[woodstock]

Nothing in writing, I've haven't pushed it at all yet. Just a phone call to our agent who then called the company. For this low amount we haven't decided whether to push or not. I want to find the full policy words and then decide. My experience with claim in very low (knock on wood) so posting here help me see if I was off base on where the damage fell.

I'd be concerned that now he knows about it, if they internally deem it collision but you don't even claim on it - they might come up with some kind of excuse to raise your rates. do they have a leg to stand on? well, no, but what does that have anything to do with it.

if your comprehensive is a low deductible, make them pay for it.

 

[SkyHog]

I don't get it. If you have a $500 deductable, and the damage is $500, then why bother reporting it to the insurance agency? Its gonna cost you the same either way, so I'd say just pay to get it fixed.

Unless I'm missing something.

 

[woodstock]

I don't get it. If you have a $500 deductable, and the damage is $500, then why bother reporting it to the insurance agency? Its gonna cost you the same either way, so I'd say just pay to get it fixed.

Unless I'm missing something.

comprehensive deductibles are usually 100 bucks. collision can be 500.

 

[SkyHog]

comprehensive deductibles are usually 100 bucks. collision can be 500.

Yeah, I just reread the original post and saw where he said that there were different deductibles.

Thats what I get for not reading the post closely.

HURRRRRR!

 

[Ghery]

I need to call my insurance agent (again). A rock took out the windshield on my Jeep (again) and I need to get it replaced. BTW, I carry 0 deductable comprehensive. It is not insurance, it is an investment that pays off. This will be the third or fourth windshield on this one vehicle. That nearly vertical flat windshield just doesn't deflect rocks like a more sloped one, like on our Grand Cherokee. This takes the impact and cracks.

Oh, and sorry to hear your with Safeco. The repair shop that fixed the Grand after my wife was hit by an idiot running a red light rated them as the worst insurance company to deal with. They really like our company as they pay the bills without playing games.

 

[ejensen]

Oh, and sorry to hear your with Safeco. The repair shop that fixed the Grand after my wife was hit by an idiot running a red light rated them as the worst insurance company to deal with. They really like our company as they pay the bills without playing games.

Sure don't like hearing that.

I check the policy this morning. Didn't help much, pretty vague words. No mention of motion or being driven. I'm thinking of one more push and then letting it go.

Thanks all.

 

[ejensen]

Yeah, I just reread the original post and saw where he said that there were different deductibles.

Thats what I get for not reading the post closely.

HURRRRRR!

Glad you figured it out. Wouldn't want you to think there was an idiot pilot in the area.

 

[woodstock]

Sure don't like hearing that.

I check the policy this morning. Didn't help much, pretty vague words. No mention of motion or being driven. I'm thinking of one more push and then letting it go.

Thanks all.

they are counting on you to think this and give it up.

which means they don't pay for it, and if they are not being honest you might have a possible collision on your policy. which means your rates go up.

do you have any friend licensed in the state (law) who you can at least say you've consulted with, verbally, to let them know you know you looked into this and aren't going to be a pushover? they are counting on the fact that you might be. pushovers make their job very very easy.

BAD FAITH is the key phrase to use. make THEM prove the wording doesn't cover you - IN WRITING - I bet they won't put it in writing - I BET THEY WON'T PUT IT IN WRITING - don't just turn tail and slink away. don't make it as easy as a phone call for them. not kidding. a few 39 cents stamps effort on your part and you'll most likely have this taken care of. if they say "no sorry" and you say OK you've done their job for them.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

a few 39 cents stamps effort on your part

I agree. But try registered mail with signature and proof of receipt.
Better yet, on letterhead such as "Jones, Smith and Brown, Attorneys at Law"

 

[tom.]

but I'm pretty sure comprehensive doesn't raise your rates. collision most certainly will.

500 bucks is maybe a quarter of an inch deep.

Wow, must be a pretty nice car. Glad I drive a pickup. If a shopping cart hit it I would check to see if the cart was all right.

I give up. What is cowbell?

 

[ejensen]

Wow, must be a pretty nice car. Glad I drive a pickup. If a shopping cart hit it I would check to see if the cart was all right.

I give up. What is cowbell?

99 Camrey. A friend just had a minor dent fixed in the driver's door of his NEW pickup. Bill was almost $2000.

 

[poadeleted20]

First, make clear that the vehicle was not in motion (i.e., parked) when the cart hit it. Normally, collision covers "in motion" and comprehensive covers "not in motion." In the future, don't speculate on the cause -- just tell them it happened while it was parked and you don't know how.

Second, this is an example of why it's better to get insurance through brokers (who work for you) rather than agents (who work for the insurance company).

Third, it may cost you nearly as much as the difference to get a lawyer to read your policy and provide assistance, but the threat of a lawyer may help.

 

[ejensen]

First, make clear that the vehicle was not in motion (i.e., parked) when the cart hit it. Normally, collision covers "in motion" and comprehensive covers "not in motion." In the future, don't speculate on the cause -- just tell them it happened while it was parked and you don't know how.

I remember the word 'motion' from long ago but it is not in this policy. If fact what I posted is almost what the actual policy says with malicious mischief added in the comprehesive area. Pretty vague and open to debate, intentional I'm sure.

Yeah shouldn't guess, we aren't even sure it was a cart. That was the body guys best guess. Could have been a big vehicle door.

Second, this is an example of why it's better to get insurance through brokers (who work for you) rather than agents (who work for the insurance company).

That why I've stayed with Independant Agents rather than company agents. Until now they always seem to be more on my side. This time it feels like they don't care.

Third, it may cost you nearly as much as the difference to get a lawyer to read your policy and provide assistance, but the threat of a lawyer may help.

That's the problem with these small claims. Big enough to aggravate but too small to waste much energy on.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Eric

 

[Ken Ibold]

Better yet, on letterhead such as "Jones, Smith and Brown, Attorneys at Law"

A few years ago my wife and I were involved in a billing dispute with a hospital. It got nasty and they threatened to send the collection goons. My wife printed a sheet of letterhead with her name and "attorney at law" and sent the next letter on that. Message was the same, but this time we got back a written apology from the hospital CEO and written confirmation that we owed them no money. I think they realized that it would simply cost them less to write it off than it would cost to send it to their lawyer for review, regardless of the merits of the case. It's all dollars and cents.

 

[inav8r]

My wife printed a sheet of letterhead with her name and "attorney at law" and sent the next letter on that.

Not to derail this thread, but isn't that against the law in most states? I wouldn't advise doing this!

 

[Bill]

Not to derail this thread, but isn't that against the law in most states? I wouldn't advise doing this!

Ken's wife IS a lawyer.

 

[woodstock]

Not to derail this thread, but isn't that against the law in most states? I wouldn't advise doing this!

it is, if you are impersonating one - but she wasn't, she is an attorney!

when I want attention, I sign my name and ESQ. after it. (i.e. to insurance cos).

 

[poadeleted20]

when I want attention, I sign my name and ESQ. after it. (i.e. to insurance cos).

es·quire ( ĕs ' kwīr ' , ĭ-skwīr ' ) n. A man or boy who is a member of the gentry in England ranking directly below a knight.

Should you not be an "Esquirine" or something like that? "ESQE." or whatever? Or is the legal world gender insensitive?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

A simple explaination of coverage from Consumer Reports:


Collision and comprehensive. Collision coverage pays to repair or replace your car no matter who or what caused the accident. Comprehensive pays to repair or replace your car if it's stolen or damaged as a result of a storm or other natural event. Coverage kicks in for the amount above your deductible. Choose the highest deductible you can afford to pay out of pocket--at least $500.

Dave

Just a reporter here--not taking any positions.

 

[Henning]

A simple explaination of coverage from Consumer Reports:


Collision and comprehensive. Collision coverage pays to repair or replace your car no matter who or what caused the accident. Comprehensive pays to repair or replace your car if it's stolen or damaged as a result of a storm or other natural event. Coverage kicks in for the amount above your deductible. Choose the highest deductible you can afford to pay out of pocket--at least $500.

Dave

Just a reporter here--not taking any positions.

Consumer Reports typically does better than that, that is woefully incomplete. Most states, when you buy comprehensive, it is an Inclusive policy. That means if not specifically Excluded and/or listed in a seperate section, it is covered under the Comprehensive. In this case any jury would read a shopping cart ding on an unattended vehicle (this is the typical test in court, attended or unattended) under comprehensive coverage.

 

[inav8r]

Ken's wife IS a lawyer.

I seem to have missed that fact.

Sort of changes everything!