My whine

DavidWhite

DavidWhite

Final Approach
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DW
I'm positive I'll think this is a pointless post in the morning, but for now here is a my sleep deprived rambling thoughts (have you ever been so tired you just cant go to sleep? I'm there)

So, today I flew back from Lincoln after my little jaunt in the midwest. Fun trip, I had a wonderful time visiting with Jesse and Danielle. It is only 670 miles back home, but courtesy of a 20 knot headwind it made it a 7 hour hike. As much as I love the 172, I think it may be time to start looking for something a little faster. A 20 knot headwind in a 160 knot airplane and you are still going 140 knots, I'm doing 90. The 172 is great for little 200 mile trips, but most of my flying lately has been 600+ miles and the 172 just isnt ideal. Granted, flying all these long trips has gotten me ALOT of hours.

I hit 500 sometime in june, I'm at about 525 right now. I don't have an autopilot in my airplane, so all of this hand flying is getting old. 36 gallons usable, good for about 350 mile legs (although I did a 360 mile leg today with a 20 knot headwinds and still landed with over an hour of gas) the totalizer and reasonably accurate fuel gauges, coupled with careful planning and you can do 400 miles. (I did that once with 20 knot TAILWINDS, a rarity. Still not comfortable doing it regularly without a big tailwind) The majority of my time is solo xc time (like 275 hours worth, another 50 is just solo time) so some of this is frustration because I very rarely am able to find someone to fly with me. I need (want) a faster airplane, or a travelling companion.








Or both.


/vent

I feel better.
 
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DavidWhite said:
I'm positive I'll think this is a pointless post in the morning, but for now here is a my sleep deprived rambling thoughts (have you ever been so tired you just cant go to sleep? I'm there)

So, today I flew back from Lincoln after my little jaunt in the midwest. Fun trip, I had a wonderful time visiting with Jesse and Danielle. It is only 670 miles back home, but courtesy of a 20 knot headwind it made it a 7 hour hike. As much as I love the 172, I think it may be time to start looking for something a little faster. A 20 knot headwind in a 160 knot airplane and you are still going 140 knots, I'm doing 90. The 172 is great for little 200 mile trips, but most of my flying lately has been 600+ miles and the 172 just isnt ideal. Granted, flying all these long trips has gotten me ALOT of hours.

I hit 500 sometime in june, I'm at about 525 right now. I don't have an autopilot in my airplane, so all of this hand flying is getting old. 36 gallons usable, good for about 350 mile legs (although I did a 360 mile leg today with a 20 knot headwinds and still landed with over an hour of gas) the totalizer and reasonably accurate fuel gauges, coupled with careful planning and you can do 400 miles. (I did that once with 20 knot TAILWINDS, a rarity. Still not comfortable doing it regularly without a big tailwind) The majority of my time is solo xc time (like 275 hours worth, another 50 is just solo time) so some of this is frustration because I very rarely am able to find someone to fly with me. I need (want) a faster airplane, or a travelling companion.
Or both.


/vent

I feel better.
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Find an airplane partner. Someone with approximately the same financial resources, flight experience, and attitudes about safety, equipment, cosmetics, etc. Then pool your money and buy a Mooney or Bonanza if funds permit, a Commanche or Super Viking if they don't.

What you don't want to do is buy an airplane you can't afford to fly because you put too much of your discretionary cash outflow into the purchase.
 
How about finding a girlfriend? If I was a young guy like you, had my PPL and all the money in the world to cruise around for fun I would be taking all kinds of girls up with me. Have you thought about that?
 
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Learn to live happily with what you have - else you'll never be happy no matter what you obtain. Once you figure that out life comes together.
 
jesse said:
Learn to live happily with what you have - else you'll never be happy no matter what you obtain. Once you figure that out life comes together.
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All in all, I really do like the skyhawk. It's a great little airplane, but sometimes (when you get gnarly headwinds) it can get frustrating. You know my love/hate (but mostly love) relationship with my airplane.
 
DavidWhite said:
All in all, I really do like the skyhawk. It's a great little airplane, but sometimes (when you get gnarly headwinds) it can get frustrating. You know my love/hate (but mostly love) relationship with my airplane.
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I think I predicted that about a year ago... LOL.
I'm thinking you need to talk to Wilson or one of the other guys about being able to use an RV-6 or something along those lines. Build some more tailwheel time and have more fun doing it.

Ryan
 
RyanShort1 said:
I think I predicted that about a year ago... LOL.
I'm thinking you need to talk to Wilson or one of the other guys about being able to use an RV-6 or something along those lines. Build some more tailwheel time and have more fun doing it.

Ryan
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You were totally right, and that's a good idea. I haven't talked to Wilson in awhile, is he still slowly getting his private?
 
DavidWhite said:
All in all, I really do like the skyhawk. It's a great little airplane, but sometimes (when you get gnarly headwinds) it can get frustrating. You know my love/hate (but mostly love) relationship with my airplane.
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7 hours Lincoln to South Texas isn't that bad. I've done motorcycle rides that push well past 30 hours.

Seriously 7 hours is something to be proud of -- not something to be frustrated with. Try that drive in your car and you'll feel much better about your airplane. It doesn't matter what you buy you're going to want to go 30 knots faster.

If I wanted to get from Lincoln to New Brunfels tomorrow via the airlines, I would have to:

1.) Leave my house at 9:30 AM
2.) Drive 1 hour in my truck to the Omaha airport, leave truck, pay for parking
3.) Catch 11:54 AM flight out of Omaha to Denver
4.) Wait in Denver for 8 hours
5.) Catch 8:50 PM flight out of denver
6.) Arrive in San Antonio at midnight
7.) Rent car. Drive 40 minutes to new brunfels

If I was lucky I'd get there at about 1AM and it'd cost me at least $700 or so - my door to door time would be like 16 hours or something crazy.

Sometimes there is a shorter flight-- but even that takes the airlines 4 hours and would take me about 7 hours door to door. Think about that -- IF THE AIRLINES at their best can fly direct in 4 hours -- you're doing as good or better then them door to door.

Buying another airplane could be a mess and the operating costs of something like a Bonanza is substantially higher...and they make much less sense for local flights.
 
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jesse said:
7 hours Lincoln to South Texas isn't that bad. I've done motorcycle rides that push well past 30 hours.

Seriously 7 hours is something to be proud of -- not something to be frustrated with. Try that drive in your car and you'll feel much better about your airplane. It doesn't matter what you buy you're going to want to go 30 knots faster.

If I wanted to get from Lincoln to New Brunfels tomorrow via the airlines, I would have to:

1.) Leave my house at 9:30 AM
2.) Drive 1 hour in my truck to the Omaha airport, leave truck, pay for parking
3.) Catch 11:54 AM flight out of Omaha to Denver
4.) Wait in Denver for 8 hours
5.) Catch 8:50 PM flight out of denver
6.) Arrive in San Antonio at midnight
7.) Rent car. Drive 40 minutes to new brunfels

If I was lucky I'd get there at about 1AM and it'd cost me at least $700 or so - my door to door time would be like 16 hours or something crazy.

Sometimes there is a direct flight -- but even that takes the airlines 4 hours and would take me about 7 hours door to door. Think about that -- IF THE AIRLINES at their best can fly direct in 4 hours -- you're doing as good or better then them door to door.

Buying another airplane could be a mess and the operating costs of something like a Bonanza is substantially higher...and they make much less sense for local flights.
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I think the round trip from san marcos to lincoln and back was something like $600, cheaper than the airlines.
 
Don't beat yourself up on this issue. I've seen you in action and you're fine.

DavidWhite said:
Besides being a pilot, I'm an incredibly uninteresting person. Imagine Ben Stein (from ferrris buellers day off), but with less charisma.
Click to expand...
 
Now you know why I say 'buy your last plane first', it does not take long to out grow a 172 if you intend to travel. You may as well look for a 180kt plane....
 
Henning said:
Now you know why I say 'buy your last plane first', it does not take long to out grow a 172 if you intend to travel. You may as well look for a 180kt plane....
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Are you suggesting he get his MEL and look at a particular C-310? :devil:
 
Why not buy an RV? :D


Jesse has it right though, be happy flying! You are in the air. Getting there faster means less time in the air. I've flown 75 MPH ultra lights cross country. What is the hurry? :dunno:
 
DavidWhite said:
I'm positive I'll think this is a pointless post in the morning, but for now here is a my sleep deprived rambling thoughts (have you ever been so tired you just cant go to sleep? I'm there)

So, today I flew back from Lincoln after my little jaunt in the midwest. Fun trip, I had a wonderful time visiting with Jesse and Danielle. It is only 670 miles back home, but courtesy of a 20 knot headwind it made it a 7 hour hike. As much as I love the 172, I think it may be time to start looking for something a little faster. A 20 knot headwind in a 160 knot airplane and you are still going 140 knots, I'm doing 90. The 172 is great for little 200 mile trips, but most of my flying lately has been 600+ miles and the 172 just isnt ideal. Granted, flying all these long trips has gotten me ALOT of hours.

I hit 500 sometime in june, I'm at about 525 right now. I don't have an autopilot in my airplane, so all of this hand flying is getting old. 36 gallons usable, good for about 350 mile legs (although I did a 360 mile leg today with a 20 knot headwinds and still landed with over an hour of gas) the totalizer and reasonably accurate fuel gauges, coupled with careful planning and you can do 400 miles. (I did that once with 20 knot TAILWINDS, a rarity. Still not comfortable doing it regularly without a big tailwind) The majority of my time is solo xc time (like 275 hours worth, another 50 is just solo time) so some of this is frustration because I very rarely am able to find someone to fly with me. I need (want) a faster airplane, or a travelling companion.








Or both.


/vent

I feel better.
Click to expand...
Sell the 172. Buy Ted's twin or Henning's. Go fly for ARF.
 
DavidWhite said:
All in all, I really do like the skyhawk. It's a great little airplane, but sometimes (when you get gnarly headwinds) it can get frustrating. You know my love/hate (but mostly love) relationship with my airplane.
Click to expand...

Find the rattiest rental 150 you can and take it for a 400 nm trip and back

PS we told you it was too slow when you started talking about long range tanks and a bunch of other mods!

Capitalize on the strong points of it.. you want to be a professional pilot and you are gaining hours for less $ than it would cost you to operate a bo or similar aircraft.
 
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It doesn't matter what you're flying, at some point you'll be grousing about groundspeed and headwinds. I was down-right offended any time the GS in the jets, and especially the G-V, dropped below 400.

Insofar as winds killing a high percentage of groundspeed, a 126-kt westerly at FL180 can do a job on a B-200's 288 TAS as well, so there's not much to do other than accept the fact that you're going to get your money's worth that day.

A couple years ago I flew an A-36 from Newark to Dallas. The headwind component was ~30-35 both days, and made the trip even longer and more uncomfortable. You can think that a windspeed in that range will be less demoralizing in a faster plane, and maybe it's not quite as bad, but I don't think it ever gets much better from a pilot's standpoint.

For me, the autopilot is a huge factor because I'm freed from the constant monitoring and fiddling that are otherwise necessary. "We'll get there when we get there" is a lot easier to accept when you're not tied to the tiller, and the reduced fatigue factor is significant. When somebody says "well, it's just a Cessna 180, why would you need an autopilot?" I just offer to let them fly the plane during a trip and show them how to activate the system. So far, nobody has ever hand-flown a trip.
 
David, don't sell yourself short in the personality area.
 
dell30rb said:
Find the rattiest rental 150 you can and take it for a 400 nm trip and back

PS we told you it was too slow when you started talking about long range tanks and a bunch of other mods!

Capitalize on the strong points of it.. you want to be a professional pilot and you are gaining hours for less $ than it would cost you to operate a bo or similar aircraft.
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The problem with that though is that with high quantities of simple aircraft time, getting initial insurance in a complex gets really expensive. Radio Ralphie from the Purple board had 750 hrs all in DA20s, 40s and PA 28-140s and he was complaining of initial insurance quotes on a retract single that were over 12% insured value, and that is what commercial ops insurance costs.
 
David, When I met you a week and a half ago at Osh ( which was a real pleasure by the way) you told me how much you loved your 172 and at OH time you wanted to put in the 200hp engine with a wood prop and call it a 173.

I'm sure its just a tired rant, You love your plane, I still recall Waynes advice a while back buy the plane that fits 95% of your missions or something to that effect, I remember the list anyway. Fly Enjoy and listen to Jesse.
 
Geico266 said:
Why not buy an RV? :D
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+1
This.

If two seats will do you, there's some bargains out there in already-flying RV-4s and RV-6s.

My Cherokee 140 which I owned and flew for nearly a decade (same speeds as a 172) normally took 8 hours and 72 gallons of avgas to get from Texas to Oshkosh.

My new RV-6 took 5 hours and 42 gallons to do the same trip. It
is a lot more fun to fly as well, and has an autopilot coupled to a GPS.

RVs will always have pretty good resale value too.
 
So David, do you regret posting this now? (You said at the beginning in the morning you may)
 
If what you are focused on is getting to your destination whatever you fly will be too slow after a while...
 
DavidWhite said:
Besides being a pilot, I'm an incredibly uninteresting person. Imagine Ben Stein (from ferrris buellers day off), but with less charisma.
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Only because you have left all the girls your age behind in the dust when it comes to cultural awareness & maturity.

Find a nice 19...20...21 year-old (or two...or three...or...). I'm sure you could teach them a few things and I'm MORE certain that they could teach YOU a few!

:thumbsup:

:goofy:

:happydance:

:cheers:
 
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Count me in the "predicted this would happen" crowd. ;)

You've done a pretty significant amount of traveling in your time, and have gotten to do some pretty cool trips. By the time I had your total time I was flying the Aztec on long trips (also without an autopilot). And it doesn't matter how fast you're going, flying solo gets old pretty quickly. So I'd recommend getting a travel companion. You'll find that having someone makes even long trips feel short.

But yes, my Aztec is still for sale, and the price has decreased.
 
Everskyward said:
If what you are focused on is getting to your destination whatever you fly will be too slow after a while...
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I didn't find that, I'm still pretty satisfied with three miles a minute after many years, satisfied enough that I slow down to do it.
 
That's pretty quick when it sits in a hangar a thousand miles away for a year at a time. What's the total number of hours at which you have achieved such speed during the past 2 years?

Henning said:
I didn't find that, I'm still pretty satisfied with three miles a minute after many years, satisfied enough that I slow down to do it.
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wabower said:
That's pretty quick when it sits in a hangar a thousand miles away for a year at a time. What's the total number of hours at which you have achieved such speed during the past 2 years?
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Approximately 100, crossed the country coast to coast 2 times as well as Florida to Philly twice, once with a side trip to Maine, and Florida to OSH once... all with no autopilot.
 
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DavidWhite said:
All in all, I really do like the skyhawk. It's a great little airplane, but sometimes (when you get gnarly headwinds) it can get frustrating. You know my love/hate (but mostly love) relationship with my airplane.
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Trust me, no matter what you're flying you will always be frustrated by headwinds. A given wind will have a smaller effect on block times with a faster airplane but in most cases that faster airplane will burn more fuel during the extra time aloft than the slower one even though the increase in time is smaller. If you ever get into turbocharged (or worse yet turbine powered) airplanes you'll find that it's all too often you're faced with staying (relatively) low and slow (while guzzling gas) or going high and fighting near triple digit headwinds.
 
the airplane needs to fit the mission of 70% of the hours -

if 70% of your hours are 500-600nm then a 172 is NOT the right airplane.

GA Airplanes are usually payload, speed or range, pick any 2. There are TWO airframes in your budget area - a Comanche or a very early Bonanza. Then you get all THREE.

I was looking for the same decision - in 2004 when I bought my Viking 90% of my flying was inside 400nm. The 75 gallons and limited payload worked cause I could simply not fill the aux tank and everything worked out at 165 knots.

However - we ended up buying a vacation home in Beaufort SC - which is 12nm MW of Hilton Head - and we lived in CT. I had a kid who was growing. The Viking required a stop both ways usually - which turned what should have been a 4.5-5 hour trip into a 7 hour extravaganza.

So, I found a REALLY nice Comanche 260C - 155ktas reliably. 750lbs FULL FUEL payload, thats 86 gallons usable, so that gave me really good range too - as in 6 HOURS of fuel ROP and 7 hours LOP at 148ktas.

My Comanche had a superb autopilot, a 530, gpss, vertical guidance for the AP, storm scope, HSI and radar altimeter - this was a CROSS COUNTRY airplane. So the average flight from CT-SC was 4.5 to 4.75 hours and the trip home was around 4.25.

Fit the airplane to the 70% mission - we did that trip 7-8 times a year- meaning 70 hours a year or so - out of 110 or so I fly a year.
 
DavidWhite said:
All in all, I really do like the skyhawk. It's a great little airplane, but sometimes (when you get gnarly headwinds) it can get frustrating. You know my love/hate (but mostly love) relationship with my airplane.
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter if you are flying a 737, the number may change but the headwind frustration is the same..

Do you honestly think that you won't get used to a 160tas planned speed, and just plan longer trips?? And get a headwind most of the time... And want something faster?

Enjoy yourself, if you get bored. Look for an airport and land at it.. YOu never know what you will find..
 
DavidWhite said:
Besides being a pilot, I'm an incredibly uninteresting person. Imagine Ben Stein (from ferrris buellers day off), but with less charisma.
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Other than Trade-a-Plane and Barnstormers..,it sounds like Match.com and eHarmony might be of similar utility. Met and married my wife who is now my bestest flying companion on Match. If there was someone for me, there's someone for everyone.

Gene
 
DavidWhite said:
All in all, I really do like the skyhawk. It's a great little airplane, but sometimes (when you get gnarly headwinds) it can get frustrating. You know my love/hate (but mostly love) relationship with my airplane.
Click to expand...

If it doesn't have to go 160, how about a later model Cessna Cardinal RG? Similar to the 172, nicer looking, sleek and rakish, retractable, constant speed prop, 200 horsepower, makes an easy 143 knots true on 10 to 11 GPH, great IFR platform, under valued for it performance and economy, it has about a 1000 lb. useful load and a great support group. Of course I'm biased as I own a '71 Cardinal RG, but the facts are the facts!

Gene
 
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