My "New" 1947 140 and my adventure of learning to fly her...

Tom-D said:
Seems like huh! Give a pretty common opinion that some here give advice when they have no responsibility for it .. and ... holy scat. its the same as you kicked them in the ego.
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Yeah but you don’t have any responsibility for your advice either.

The point is that you are welcome to share your opinion but **** talking another member by saying they have no skin in the game and trying to undermine their opinion is rude and unwelcome here.
 
Nice plane. I will be flying one myself in a couple of weeks. Doing IFR training in one and getting my TW endorsement at the same time. Afraid I’ll fall in love with tail wheels
 
The tragic story of my 1946 C-120 is that I spent nine months rebuilding it from a busted up airplane into an airworthy machine and it was destroyed in a microburst storm. I was planning to fly it for the first time after the repairs two days after it was gone...

I am looking at a 1946 C-120 now and I want to buy it just to get some closure on the sad, sad story...
 
Congratulations on your plane!
Hooker harnesses are highly recommended, I put them in at my first annual.

Wheel extenders work by moving th cg further back from the main wheel’s axel.
Tailwheel plane groundloop because the cg is behind the main wheels.
Moving the cg further back will increase the planes tendency to groundloop.

I won’t be putting extenders on my plane.

Have fun!
 
manac said:
Congratulations on your plane!
Hooker harnesses are highly recommended, I put them in at my first annual.
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I agree on the Hookers. My plane had a different brand. On the Hookers, you use and angle drill and go through the spar inside the plane. On the other brand, you drill through the top of the plane and have two caps covering the holes. For that alone, the Hookers are better!
 
So in finding out that my plane spent her original days in White Cloud Mi, about 30 miles by air from home, and having the name of the original owner I did some googling... He wouldn't still be with us as he was born in 1899 but couldn't find much more than that. So I called the airport in White Cloud, its going to be one of my first destinations once I get my TW endorsement, the guys at the airport remembered Charles Moore, he was the Chrysler Dealer in town, and by God does that explain all the trips he took from White Cloud to Detroit in the early logs! They said to come on up, there is still much of his family still in town and we can start making some connections! WOW!
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Yeah but you don’t have any responsibility for your advice either.

The point is that you are welcome to share your opinion but **** talking another member by saying they have no skin in the game and trying to undermine their opinion is rude and unwelcome here.
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The whole point I was making is no one here has any skin in the game, You know what they say about free advice.
If the OP removed his wheel extenders, then tip his 140 up could he then hold who ever gave him that advice responsible for the accident?
Of course not, because in all reality all we get here is an opinion.
 
On the other hand, if someone puts extenders on, and ground loops because the extenders make the gear react "the wrong way" when a side load is applied by twisting the spring - then who does he/she/it blame?

BTW. The old man put his 120 on it's nose once - the right brake grabbed a bit, went off the runway and into a ditch - with mom in the right seat. The shiny new Clevelands were installed before the engine went back in. Nice.
 
Tom-D said:
Seems like huh! Give a pretty common opinion that some here give advice when they have no responsibility for it .. and ... holy scat. its the same as you kicked them in the ego.
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Tom-D said:
The whole point I was making is no one here has any skin in the game, You know what they say about free advice.
If the OP removed his wheel extenders, then tip his 140 up could he then hold who ever gave him that advice responsible for the accident?
Of course not, because in all reality all we get here is an opinion.
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Tom, if you want to say my opinion is an opinion, fine, but criticize the opinion on it's merit, not whether or not I have skin in the game. When I fly with a tailwheel student, my skin IS in the game, and I had made the choice to have the extenders come off of my 120 just before some life circumstances put me in a spot where selling the plane was prudent. I got my tailwheel endorsement in a 120 without extenders well over a decade ago and have flown the type with and without them.
 
Maybe a long reinforced protrusion from the mains is the answer, just two bars pointing out front- no center of gravity shift rearward and it wud “catch” ya before the propeller hit the deck! Lol. I’ll see if I can get field approval on it ;) Keep em from tipping frontward and can try spearing dinner if you hit a flock of geese! :)
 
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RyanShort1 said:
Tom, if you want to say my opinion is an opinion, fine, but criticize the opinion on it's merit, not whether or not I have skin in the game. When I fly with a tailwheel student, my skin IS in the game, and I had made the choice to have the extenders come off of my 120 just before some life circumstances put me in a spot where selling the plane was prudent. I got my tailwheel endorsement in a 120 without extenders well over a decade ago and have flown the type with and without them.
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But you are not in the OPs aircraft.

If he were to take your advice, remove the wheel extenders then tip it up, would you pay all damages?
 
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pigpenracing said:
Wheel extensions???? I always thought that was a really dumb thing to do. If you fly the airplane correctly there is no need.
That's like making the gear extra wide on my Pitts :(
I know people that wreck motorcycles. Is it a good idea to put training wheels on those :D
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wheel extensions on a 120/140 do not set the wheels out, they set them forward. making it much more difficult tip up.
 
Tom-D said:
But you are not in the OPs aircraft.

If he were to take your advice, remove the wheel extenders then tip it up, would you pay all damages?
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Well, except I don't believe there are wheel extenders on it to remove...

And if he put the wheel extenders on and trashed the landing gear and/or gear box because of the additional torsional load imposed that it wasn't designed for, would you pay the damages?

You really never do see that it works both ways do you? rather you just always know that your opinion is the only valid one.
 
Huckster79 said:
Maybe a long reinforced protrusion from the mains is the answer, just two bars pointing out front- no center of gravity shift rearward and it wud “catch” ya before the propeller hit the deck! Lol. I’ll see if I can get field approval on it ;) Keep em from tipping frontward and can try spearing dinner if you hit a flock of geese! :)
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Here ya go. Should look cool on a C-140. :D

 
Tom-D said:
wheel extensions on a 120/140 do not set the wheels out, they set them forward. making it much more difficult tip up.
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I’m sure they tip if you brake really hard!
The folks that do that can add a block of lead in the tail. Lol!
My 140 is fabulous and I have not tipped it :)
I don’t tend to use brakes much in a Taildragger.
 
pigpenracing said:
I don’t tend to use brakes much in a Taildragger.
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I stand on mine pretty hard when I'm doing stop and go's in the current ride - but it does tend to make it a bit squirrelly since you aren't using your fine motor skills - dunno that I would do that in something more responsive like a Pitts. Back when I flew the 120, it depended on which runway I was using at what is now VLL - you didn't want to miss that first turnoff on the former diagonal runway - so, yea, lots of brakes on that one.
 
Tom-D said:
But you are not in the OPs aircraft.

If he were to take your advice, remove the wheel extenders then tip it up, would you pay all damages?
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I teach my students to mind the brakes. It's their job to remember it. The plane is not inherently unsafe without them, which is what you seem to imply. Proper pilot technique is important.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Tom, have you owned and given tailwheel instruction in a 120? I don’t understand your “skin in the game” reference. I’ve probably flown 4-5 different 120s with students with and without extenders, and like I said, mine had them. Yes, you can flip one, but there are real downsides to the extenders, too.


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I recently did a 4 hour checkout a 140. It would have been well under 2 hours except the guy had size 12 feet and the 140 had sensitive brakes, the 1st 2.5 hours was just trying to do a takeoff and landing without him riding the brakes. Stay off the brakes and you will have no need to the wheel extenders.
A thinner shoe and even the recommendation to fly in socks and a few hours of practice he was doing fine.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Tom-D said:
But you are not in the OPs aircraft.

If he were to take your advice, remove the wheel extenders then tip it up, would you pay all damages?
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Would you pay for new gear boxes if he leaves them installed? Your opinion has the same value as everyone else’s on here.... none.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Would you pay for new gear boxes if he leaves them installed? Yes, gear boxes are much cheaper than a tip up repair, costs of a 0-200 is near $15k these days, bend a crank flange add $5,500 then add a prop, and cowl repair.

Your opinion has the same value as everyone else’s on here.... none.
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That must include your's too.
 
brcase said:
I recently did a 4 hour checkout a 140. It would have been well under 2 hours except the guy had size 12 feet and the 140 had sensitive brakes, the 1st 2.5 hours was just trying to do a takeoff and landing without him riding the brakes. Stay off the brakes and you will have no need to the wheel extenders.
A thinner shoe and even the recommendation to fly in socks and a few hours of practice he was doing fine.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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And the first time he gets into a panic situation he'll revert to old habits and jump on the brakes, and over she'll go..
 
brcase said:
A thinner shoe and even the recommendation to fly in socks and a few hours of practice he was doing fine.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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Ive had a rule of light shoes from PPL training days, i observed i piloted much better in a thin light shoe even with the training wheel planes... light shoes and sitting what felt awkwardly close to the pedals at first really helped getting my ticket. I honestly was thinking of even going lighter than my running type tennis shoe for TW training, they are light but knobby type bottom like for cross country running, i was thinking a real thin flat bottom shoe may help the most, interesting you mentioned it.

My checkout has to take at least 4 hours as i need 10hrs dual for insurance, we got 6 hours in bringing her home, just no take off or landing training.
 
I had one of those size 14 shoe wearing students once and he actually had a moment of negative habit transfer and thought he was in a car. He nailed the right brake and drove us into the grass between the runways while taxiing into position for takeoff. I was able to pull the mixture, so the prop di not mow the weeds. The tower asked "You having brake problems?" I said "Yeah- my feet weren't on them!"

Also, I have flown 120's with and without the extensions and the extra mass behind the CG makes the plane more stable on landing rollout after a full stall three point landing. Good brakes will flip ANY C-120/140...
 
IK04 said:
Also, I have flown 120's with and without the extensions and the extra mass behind the CG makes the plane more stable on landing rollout after a full stall three point landing. Good brakes will flip ANY C-120/140...
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You mean the main gears? Not sure how to add mass behind the CG...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
They simply move the Center of gravity farther behind the axels.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
@Tom-D just commited to maintain your gear for free. He’s a solid stand up guy with lots of skin in the game.
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I'd do it..I'd maintain his 120/140 for a ride once in a while..Ain't no big deal with me.
 
Interesting... Someone tried to scam me last month by selling me this C-140 for $7,000... They found these photos and tried to pass the airplane off as theirs. It was on Craigslist. I reported the SCAM to eBay and they filed it away...
I looked up the registered owner in Portland and found his employer and sent him an email letting him know what was up. Never heard back...
Buyer beware!
 
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Do the N at FAA.COM
it is a buyer beware market.
 
IK04 said:
Interesting... Someone tried to scam me last month by selling me this C-140 for $7,000... They found these photos and tried to pass the airplane off as theirs. It was on Craigslist. I reported the SCAM to eBay and they filed it away...
I looked up the registered owner in Portland and found his employer and sent him an email letting him know what was up. Never heard back...
Buyer beware!
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You reported a craigslist scam to ebay? Interesting...
 
tawood said:
You reported a craigslist scam to ebay? Interesting...
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Yep. They tried to use the eBay Motors system to "guarantee" the safe transfer of funds via PayPal. The fake email they sent me was hilarious, with bogus phone numbers and addresses as well as some creative Engrish...
 
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