My little 182 ride

[ChrisK]

Finally the weather cleared up, my instructor was available, and the plane wasn't broken. Here are some of my observations from the 0.9h flight.

Preflight and initial taxi. My instructor did some of the preflight of the 182RG for me as we were running out of sunlight. I hope that the next time I get to complete the entire preflight myself, but I was happy to get some time flying, which is probably most important for now. One of the things I noticed right away is that, compared to the 152 and 172, there is virtually no resistance in the rudder pedals on the ground on this plane. I haven't ever taxied a 182 before, so I'm not sure if this is normal.

Runup. Not too much different than the planes I was used to. Testing the aux fuel pump and running the prop back and forth were the only serious differences. Incidentally, I didn't see anything about using the aux fuel pump on climbout, but my instructor said I should do this. Going to double check the POH and possibly modify my checklist.

Takeoff. I was expecting needing a whole lot of right rudder, so this didn't surprise me. As the airspeed indicator began to come alive, the whole damn plane started shaking like a mofo. As I'm used to flying aircraft with bad shimmy dampers, I immediately pulled back a little bit to relieve pressure on the nose wheel, but this shaking seemed quite excessive.

I love how the plane just leaps off of the ground. She REALLY wants to fly, and the climb performance is AMAZING. With the three bladed prop the sucker just went straight up at climb, especially once the gear came in.

Initial maneuvers. To start, my instructor had me do some simple 30 degree banks to heading. Nothing dramatic here, but like the 172, have to put in some nose down trim. Only more. A lot more. Gear comes in, aircraft goes up until that trim is in. I got used to trimming a lot =) This was my first aircraft with an HSI, so having a heading bug like option was fun for me. Didn't use the 430 or even VORs so I didn't do much with it for now.

Cruise performance. Like, it just flies at 145 knots+. Without me doing anything. Zoom zoom. We were at our first stop in under 10 minutes.

Landings. Yeah, well, first thing I noticed is a momentary distraction as you're approaching the airport and you've passed the airport. I really have no problem getting it slowed down. Gear out, first notch of flaps, nose up a bit with power back and you're at 90 knots pretty quickly. CFI said we'll work on the flow a bit more. It is also obvious that nose up trim after the power comes back is critical. I tended to set up for an overly low approach because I wasn't putting enough trim in / pulling back enough and would descend a bit more than I should. I didn't really NAIL any of my landings and my instructor was yanking back the yoke on a couple, but I think I'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

Go arounds / touch and gos. I want to mention this in particular. One of the interesting things about go arounds in this aircraft is that whole gear up / trim thing just gives you something to think about while going around; particularly, the tendency of the aircraft to go into a nose high attitude as the gear comes up (due to the fact that I just set the trim for landing). After the 2nd or 3rd touch and go I got used to spinning the trim back down immediately

Overall observations. This is a FUN airplane to fly. I'm taking a 172 on a trip this weekend, and I feel like I'm going to be BORED in the darn thing That instant power, the feel of the plane once the gear comes in, the overall lower noise even at 145 knots, I just loved every minute of it. You folks told me that once I flew this aircraft I'd never want to be in a 172 again, and I think you're right. I'm totally geeked about it. Too bad I can't rent it yet, and too bad it is almost double the price of the 172.

I'll post back once we do more fun things (pump the gear down, anyone?) CFI said originally it would probably take 5 hours to go through everything. I still hope to do it in less, but I dunno - 5 hours flying this fun plane doesn't seem like much of a chore.

Edit - forgot to mention that as a result of my squawk on the nose wheel, the plane is down for 4 days to fix "steering". My instructor speculated that some sort of ring was broken on the strut (even though he inspected it prior to my arrival), though I'm wondering if it has something to do with all the play I felt in the rudder. I'll ask the mechanic this weekend.

 

[spiderweb]

C182s are great airplanes.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

I had a turbo 182RG for a while....loved it.

 

[DavidWhite]

Familiarize yourself with the emergency gear extension procedure

 

[Z06_Mir]

My 182RG also had some shaking problems. It was mostly corrected by putting a new nose tire on it, shimmy dampener was fine. It occasionally will still shake a little (not terrible though like it was) if the nose is held down excessively. My POH says to gently left the nose at 50kts, and if I do that I never get the shake. My POH also does not have the aux pump on for takeoff, the Warriors that I flew did though. Since Cessnas are gravity fed (duh) it's not as important. It sounds like your plane is setup really similarly to mine (430, HSI, another VOR).

Go-arounds can be tricky because of how much back trim is in on landing. Maybe I use too much back trim, I dunno. It works for me so that's how I've kept it. What I would also recommend and what I do to slow the airplane is cut power to bottom of green at least (but I'm usually already in a steady descent at 120kts or so) and wait until you're at 120kts or so. Yes, the gear speed and 1st flap speed is 140, but it will put less wear on them.. really mostly for the flaps, but I bring in 1st flaps and gear basically together abeam the numbers.

 

[gismo]

I was expecting needing a whole lot of right rudder, so this didn't surprise me. As the airspeed indicator began to come alive, the whole damn plane started shaking like a mofo. As I'm used to flying aircraft with bad shimmy dampers, I immediately pulled back a little bit to relieve pressure on the nose wheel, but this shaking seemed quite excessive. [/qoute]
Could be shimmy (a common Cessna issue), an out of balance wheel, or both. Either way I'd get it fixed if it's your plane, that kind of vibration will cause other problems.

To start, my instructor had me do some simple 30 degree banks to heading. Nothing dramatic here, but like the 172, have to put in some nose down trim. Only more. A lot more. Gear comes in, aircraft goes up until that trim is in. I got used to trimming a lot =)

Nose down trim for turns???

Go arounds / touch and gos. I want to mention this in particular. One of the interesting things about go arounds in this aircraft is that whole gear up / trim thing just gives you something to think about while going around; particularly, the tendency of the aircraft to go into a nose high attitude as the gear comes up (due to the fact that I just set the trim for landing). After the 2nd or 3rd touch and go I got used to spinning the trim back down immediately

IMO, touch and go landings in a retractable airplane aren't a very good idea. I've personally witnessed two occasions where that led to a gear collapse on the runway and I know of several more that happened when I wasn't around to watch. More than one occurred during a checkout with a CFI on board. There's a generally not a lot to be gained either, the taxi back for takeoff provides a much better opportunity for going over the recent landing than the climbout. If you're the owner or lucky enough to be renting on the basis of tach time or flight time your cost per landing will actually be lower with FSTB landings vs T&G.

This is a FUN airplane to fly. I'm taking a 172 on a trip this weekend, and I feel like I'm going to be BORED in the darn thing That instant power, the feel of the plane once the gear comes in, the overall lower noise even at 145 knots, I just loved every minute of it. You folks told me that once I flew this aircraft I'd never want to be in a 172 again, and I think you're right. I'm totally geeked about it. Too bad I can't rent it yet, and too bad it is almost double the price of the 172.

I can appreciate your affection for the Cardinal RG. I put a fair portion of my early logbook entries under the C177RG aircraft type and remember that time fondly. But I have to warn you that speed is addicting and you'll likely never be satisfied for long with any airplane's speed if you fly it a lot and then get introduced to something faster. Enjoy the feeling while you can

I'll post back once we do more fun things (pump the gear down, anyone?) CFI said originally it would probably take 5 hours to go through everything. I still hope to do it in less, but I dunno - 5 hours flying this fun plane doesn't seem like much of a chore.

5hrs is about the minimum time needed if this is your first retract experience. I recommend you spend a significant portion of that time making landings at every suitable airport within 30-50 nm. Distractions are a major factor in most accidental gear mishaps and dealing with the different requirements of a dozen or more airports should help you develop solid habits to ensure you've got the wheels down before the prop starts chewing up a runway.

Another good experience is to make at least one flight with the CG near the aft limit and a full load. I think you'll find the airplane's pitch sensitivity goes up noticeably under those conditions making a PIO during the landing flare more likely. Another flight should be made with the CG as far forward as possible but you might already be doing that with just two onboard if the baggage area is empty.

 

[BillTIZ]

I do not recall fuel pump on for takeoff or landing with high wing Cessnas. But I'd need to check the POH.

As far as T&G and the nose high on the go, learn to push some nose down trim on the runway while the flaps are coming up before you push the power back up. That's why there is a pre takeoff checklist item that says, TRIM - set for takeoff. Why would a T&G be any different?

There is a lot going on for a touch n go, land, track centeline, flaps up, reset trim, power up and go, all while tracking centerline. Know where everything is, and don't move a switch without looking at it.

 

[denverpilot]

Finally the weather cleared up, my instructor was available, and the plane wasn't broken. Here are some of my observations from the 0.9h flight.

Preflight and initial taxi. My instructor did some of the preflight of the 182RG for me as we were running out of sunlight. I hope that the next time I get to complete the entire preflight myself, but I was happy to get some time flying, which is probably most important for now. One of the things I noticed right away is that, compared to the 152 and 172, there is virtually no resistance in the rudder pedals on the ground on this plane. I haven't ever taxied a 182 before, so I'm not sure if this is normal.

Most feel softer, but you have a bigger pedal to step on so you impart more force easier. Bungees can also be weak. Sounds about normal though. Some delay from initial press of the pedal to the nose gear turning is common too. Elevator in your lap will take weight off which helps a lot and will help the longevity and health of the whole nosegear assembly.

Runup. Not too much different than the planes I was used to. Testing the aux fuel pump and running the prop back and forth were the only serious differences. Incidentally, I didn't see anything about using the aux fuel pump on climbout, but my instructor said I should do this. Going to double check the POH and possibly modify my checklist.

It wasn't in my 182RG checklist in the basement either. I've had instructors that wanted it on and that wanted it off. On is less brainpower for the emergency checklist if the engine driven one quits, I guess. But then you'll forget it and leave it on if the brain is that disengaged.

Takeoff. I was expecting needing a whole lot of right rudder, so this didn't surprise me. As the airspeed indicator began to come alive, the whole damn plane started shaking like a mofo. As I'm used to flying aircraft with bad shimmy dampers, I immediately pulled back a little bit to relieve pressure on the nose wheel, but this shaking seemed quite excessive.

Rudder... Does it have rudder trim? You can set that partially right for takeoff and make your leg happier. Just remember you'll need a little left rudder to go straight if the engine quits. And once you speed up in cruise you'll have to take it out.

Nosegear, bad maintenance, pure and simple. Probably exasperated by students beating the crap out of it.

As folks mentioned, can be an out of balance nosewheel assembly (note: cheap flight school tires are almost never round either), or the shimmy dampener, or combinations of stuff.

Owners will chase this relentlessly for months at a time to fix it. It's hard on everything, even the instruments in the panel. Flight schools often ignore it until it's causing them to get student's dental bills.

I love how the plane just leaps off of the ground. She REALLY wants to fly, and the climb performance is AMAZING. With the three bladed prop the sucker just went straight up at climb, especially once the gear came in.

Burning more dinosaurs makes for bigger smiles.

Initial maneuvers. To start, my instructor had me do some simple 30 degree banks to heading. Nothing dramatic here, but like the 172, have to put in some nose down trim. Only more. A lot more. Gear comes in, aircraft goes up until that trim is in. I got used to trimming a lot =) This was my first aircraft with an HSI, so having a heading bug like option was fun for me. Didn't use the 430 or even VORs so I didn't do much with it for now.

That's the big difference in the jump up to any 182 from the 172. Trim. Trim. Trim. And trim some more.

All us 182 drivers have our heads down trying to find the trim wheel for the first 10 hours in the airplane. After that you just do it naturally.

You can time things if you think ahead about the power changes or the gear coming up and do it simultaneously or even a little ahead of time and hold opposite pressure until it goes away.

Climb and descent rates can be "rounded off" at tops and bottoms by rolling out a little trim, letting speed change, using the yoke to nail an altitude, and then keep trimming as the speed stabilizes. If you do it all with the yoke, you'll just end up tired.

Cruise performance. Like, it just flies at 145 knots+. Without me doing anything. Zoom zoom. We were at our first stop in under 10 minutes.

Wasn't long enough to play with power settings or get a good feel for leaning properly for a long cruise.

But yeah, go-fast mode is mo' funner with more ponies up front.

Landings. Yeah, well, first thing I noticed is a momentary distraction as you're approaching the airport and you've passed the airport.

ROFL!!! Happens to everyone at first.

Don't run over any slow Skyhawks in the downwind.

I really have no problem getting it slowed down. Gear out, first notch of flaps, nose up a bit with power back and you're at 90 knots pretty quickly.

It's a fat tub and loaded with drag inducing devices as well as being nothing but a giant blob aerodynamically. Power off, it'll slow up fine.

Flaps out, it'll scrub speed right off, even in a dive.

Flaps plus slip, you'll scrub speed and come down like a freaking lead weight.

Slowing up a 182 RG definitely isn't hard.

CFI said we'll work on the flow a bit more. It is also obvious that nose up trim after the power comes back is critical.

Three or four top to bottom rolls, at least, going from cruise to 90 knots.

Yup. Trim. Trim. Trim. Trim. More trim.

I tended to set up for an overly low approach because I wasn't putting enough trim in / pulling back enough and would descend a bit more than I should.

You'll get a chance to do simulated engine out and see how the glide works.

If I'm using Flaps 40, it's level and trimmed for 85 downwind and Flaps 10, 75 base Flaps 20, 65 final adding 30 or 40 flaps as needed. That's a VERY tight pattern power off.

To do the more common "stabilized approach" type profiles nowadays, you'll need to leave some power in, and extend the downwind, and the power will stay in at the base and down final to make the approach angle more mellow.

I didn't really NAIL any of my landings and my instructor was yanking back the yoke on a couple, but I think I'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

You want the yoke in your lap after touchdown. All the way back. That engine is heavy and that nose gear is small.

Keep it all the way back until off the runway and probably all the way to parking unless you are turning downwind.

Just pretend you don't want any weight on the nose gear that doesn't have to be there.

And land on the mains. Flare until it looks right and then keep coming back while flying a foot off the runway. It'll sit down on the mains, now keep coming with the yoke, you're not done when it touches down. Fly the nosewheel until it comes down. Then keep coming. All the way back.

Go arounds / touch and gos. I want to mention this in particular. One of the interesting things about go arounds in this aircraft is that whole gear up / trim thing just gives you something to think about while going around; particularly, the tendency of the aircraft to go into a nose high attitude as the gear comes up (due to the fact that I just set the trim for landing). After the 2nd or 3rd touch and go I got used to spinning the trim back down immediately

Yup. Trim. Trim. Trim. As someone pointed out already, trim down before adding power (while still holding the yoke full aft. You'll get used to contortions to reach around it. Ha.), and many places simply won't do T&G in retracts anymore.

It's likely one one the reasons that nosewheel shakes so bad. People are pounding it into the ground, sloppy with rudder on the go-around, and just no finesse. It's an RG rental.

Owners tend not to beat up the things quite as bad. Probably don't do a lot of T&G either. Full stop taxi-back.

Anyway, stay ahead of the trim or it'll make you tired of pushing on go-arounds.

Overall observations. This is a FUN airplane to fly. I'm taking a 172 on a trip this weekend, and I feel like I'm going to be BORED in the darn thing That instant power, the feel of the plane once the gear comes in, the overall lower noise even at 145 knots, I just loved every minute of it. You folks told me that once I flew this aircraft I'd never want to be in a 172 again, and I think you're right. I'm totally geeked about it. Too bad I can't rent it yet, and too bad it is almost double the price of the 172.

A straight-legged 182 will have a little less heavy nose and feel similar in power and performance. Most of that cost is insurance for the RG. Most of the difference in cost with the straight legged 182 is fuel burn. If you like the RG, hunt for a straight leg to try too.

I'll post back once we do more fun things (pump the gear down, anyone?) CFI said originally it would probably take 5 hours to go through everything. I still hope to do it in less, but I dunno - 5 hours flying this fun plane doesn't seem like much of a chore.

GUMPS downwind, GUMPS base, GUMPS final will now become part of your "forever habits" flying an RG.

Edit - forgot to mention that as a result of my squawk on the nose wheel, the plane is down for 4 days to fix "steering". My instructor speculated that some sort of ring was broken on the strut (even though he inspected it prior to my arrival), though I'm wondering if it has something to do with all the play I felt in the rudder. I'll ask the mechanic this weekend.

Hmm. Explains why so violent perhaps. People beat the cheap out of rental RGs. Get the mechanic to show you things to look at that break regularly.

If they're ever going to jack it up and swing the gear in the maintenance shop, stop by and watch. It's enlightening how many little things have to happen to get everything tucked away. Swinging Cessna gear is cool since they "dangle" and the airplane is jacked way up.

 

[ChrisK]

Nose down trim for turns???

No no - nose down trim once the gear comes in, and more when I'm done climbing (duh). I was just saying that reeling in the big drag factories had a more dramatic impact on the attitude than I was expecting. I suppose I could have made a separate section for initial climb before maneuvers so it wouldn't look like I said nose down trim for turns =)

Love the comments. Hearing things like this helps me understand this new bird.

Nate - I'm hoping to hop in a CAP 182 with an IP as soon as my HP is done.

 

[dell30rb]

IMO, touch and go landings in a retractable airplane aren't a very good idea. I've personally witnessed two occasions where that led to a gear collapse on the runway and I know of several more that happened when I wasn't around to watch. More than one occurred during a checkout with a CFI on board. There's a generally not a lot to be gained either, the taxi back for takeoff provides a much better opportunity for going over the recent landing than the climbout. If you're the owner or lucky enough to be renting on the basis of tach time or flight time your cost per landing will actually be lower with FSTB landings vs T&G.


I can appreciate your affection for the Cardinal RG. I put a fair portion of my early logbook entries under the C177RG aircraft type and remember that time fondly. But I have to warn you that speed is addicting and you'll likely never be satisfied for long with any airplane's speed if you fly it a lot and then get introduced to something faster. Enjoy the feeling while you can

He's flying a 182 not 177.. note all the references to the 'great power' the airplane has

Why would a touch n go lead to a gear collapse? I can see where it might provide added distraction and result in a gear up.. but collapse?

 

[spinfire]

I haven't flown the 182 RG, but... I usually land the Cardinal RG with the short final flown power off with full nose up trim. This means a go-around requires a strong push to avoid a big pitch up and maybe even a trim stall (of course you will trim it out, but in the meantime you need to hold the attitude). Practice a go-around from the full nose up trim state at altitude.

In my plane (177RG with IO-360) the electric fuel pump is only for starting prime and emergencies. It is not part of the takeoff or landing checklist.

 

[dukeblue219]

Why would a touch n go lead to a gear collapse? I can see where it might provide added distraction and result in a gear up.. but collapse?

Maybe referring to pilots popping the gear up while still rolling on the runway and having them retract once enough weight is off the wheels? I have never flown a retract but have heard of this from many folks, particularly in planes where the gear and flap handles are easily confused.

 

[Z06_Mir]

Posting this for whoever recommended watching the gear swing. Found it on YouTube, I should have watched them swing me though! I've watched my airplane take off plenty of times with my s/o flying, it is always silly to watch the gear come up. Not quite as graceful as a low wing.

http://youtu.be/ZnToe7zOa8E

 

[Z06_Mir]

Maybe referring to pilots popping the gear up while still rolling on the runway and having them retract once enough weight is off the wheels? I have never flown a retract but have heard of this from many folks, particularly in planes where the gear and flap handles are easily confused.

I'm pretty sure it would make for a gear up situation in my cases. In the 182RG once you take the pressure off the nose the pump runs because it notices that change in pressure. I *think* if you were to pull the gear it would retract because the sensor is on the nose gear. Scary thought no doubt. I was taught "finger for flaps, grab for gear" so I use 1 finger to put the flaps up and down and grab the gear with my entire hand. I also check my gear on downwind, base and final. It takes a fraction of a second to do and could save thousands!

 

[DavidWhite]

In most airplanes the squat switch is in the LH main gear well

 

[Ghery]

As noted, in a 182 trim is more than just your friend. You'll become a BIG believer in trim flying them, especially as you transition from a 172. But they are so much more comfortable, especially for a XC cruise.

My retrace time is in an Arrow, all my 182 time is in "gear down and welded" aircraft. But, you will get in the mode of hearing my CFI in your head every time - downwind, midfield, drop the gear, "3 in the green". Turn base, "3 in the green". Turn final, "3 in the green". Short final, "3 in the green". I don't know about where you are renting, but in our club the pilot is responsible for the first $1000 towards damages. I can write that check, but the embarassment would kill me if I landed gear up due to forgetting the lower it. As someone noted, learn the emergency extention procedure. I'm not familiar with the 182RG, but I know how dirt simple it is in the Arrow.

Have fun. Enjoy learning a new plane.

 

[CJones]

I am a big fan of the 182RG. One trick that I learned in the 177RG that translated well to the 182RG is to find the 'sweet spot' where the pitch change associated with retracting the gear is offset by the pitch change associated with retracting the flaps. IIRC, I would pull gear lever up, count to two, then retract flaps. If I timed it right, there wasn't any noticeable change in pitch with all that 'stuff' going on outside the plane.

One good exercise that Tony had me do (in both the 182RG and the RV) is to do go-around with full nose up trim. Practice it in a controlled environment when you are expecting it, so you won't be as surprised if/when it happens on a 'real' go-around. You'll be amazed at how much effort is required to keep the nose down if you have full nose-up trim. All it takes is a few spins of the trim wheel to get it back to normal, but if you happened to do a real go-around and didn't know what was going on, it could throw you off your game with pax in the plane.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

IMO, touch and go landings in a retractable airplane aren't a very good idea. I've personally witnessed two occasions where that led to a gear collapse on the runway and I know of several more that happened when I wasn't around to watch. More than one occurred during a checkout with a CFI on board.

Touch and goes are no harder on the gear than full stop. If you witnessed a gear collapse it was not caused by the pilots intention to continue the roll for another departure. Landing gear are not psychic, nor are they easily offended by touch an go ops.

 

[denverpilot]

Touch and goes are no harder on the gear than full stop. If you witnessed a gear collapse it was not caused by the pilots intention to continue the roll for another departure. Landing gear are not psychic, nor are they easily offended by touch an go ops.

People just seem to be sloppier in T&G mode. They don't finish landing the airplane before starting on the Go tasks.

 

[Z06_Mir]

I don't typically do T&G's in mine, it's a personal preference. I did a couple yesterday cause my CFI wanted to see how well I flew a high wing in crosswinds and there was a fun little 10kt or so. I don't do them the same as in a non-complex airplane though where it was literally just "flaps up, let's go" I gotta get the flaps up, cowl flaps open if they weren't already make sure again that prop/mix is full. THe more buttons/knobs it takes a few more seconds. I also won't do t&g's on a sub 3500ft or so runway in it. When I was first learning my 182RG I didn't do touch and go's ever, then it got to the point where I was more comfortable and I had the flows down.

 

[ChrisK]

Heh got me curious. We did two T&G's on a 3529 x 75 ft runway, field elevation 965.0 ft (3G3). We also did a few at BJJ but that runway is 5191 x 100 ft. @ 1111' elevation. My instructor would help clean up (which imo is more distracting than anything because now I have to pay attention to what HE is doing as well as what I am doing).

 

[Dan Thomas]

Most feel softer, but you have a bigger pedal to step on so you impart more force easier. Bungees can also be weak. Sounds about normal though.



Rudder... Does it have rudder trim? You can set that partially right for takeoff and make your leg happier. Just remember you'll need a little left rudder to go straight if the engine quits. And once you speed up in cruise you'll have to take it out.

Nosegear, bad maintenance, pure and simple. Probably exasperated by students beating the crap out of it.

As folks mentioned, can be an out of balance nosewheel assembly (note: cheap flight school tires are almost never round either), or the shimmy dampener, or combinations of stuff.


You want the yoke in your lap after touchdown. All the way back. That engine is heavy and that nose gear is small.

Keep it all the way back until off the runway and probably all the way to parking unless you are turning downwind.

Just pretend you don't want any weight on the nose gear that doesn't have to be there.

The nosewheel steering feels softer because the strut on the RG has a bit more caster angle. The nosewheel's tendency to caster straight is a little bit offset by the nose dropping a little as the wheel turns left or right, due to the increased caster angle. It stays in a taxiing turn easily.

It will have rudder trim. The nosewheel, as in other Cessna singles, is the centering datum for the rudder system, and the trim just changes the length of the steering bungee between the rudder bars and the nosegear.

Those rudder bars have gearing between them, unlike other singles, and the gears are just to the left of the copilot's left foot. Rocks or other debris tracked into the cockpit can get in there and jam those gears. Keep the floor clean.

Nosewheel shimmy is probably due to worn scissor links and a dynamically out-of-balance nosewheel assembly. The shimmy damper can't damp anything if the linkages are worn.

Holding the nose up as long as possible has its risks. The gear squat switch is on the nosegear, and as long as it's extended the gear pump could run and retract the nosewheel if the pilot inadvertently flips the gear handle up instead of the flaps. It has happened, and not rarely, either.

Steep turns in the R182 are neat. Very little back pressure is needed on the elevator. And landings tend to happen at lower speeds than in a 172, which is one reason why nosegears get beat up. Pilots land them too fast, which means flat, and the nosewheel gets beat up and runs at too much speed. The R182's Vso is 37 knots at gross, and at lower weight and in ground effect it's lower than that. That's why it jumps off the runway so well in takeoff.

Dan

 

[Z06_Mir]

Steep turns in the R182 are neat. Very little back pressure is needed on the elevator. And landings tend to happen at lower speeds than in a 172, which is one reason why nosegears get beat up. Pilots land them too fast, which means flat, and the nosewheel gets beat up and runs at too much speed. The R182's Vso is 37 knots at gross, and at lower weight and in ground effect it's lower than that. That's why it jumps off the runway so well in takeoff.

Dan

I couldn't disagree with the steep turn statement more. I've only done maybe 2 steep turns in a 172 ever (1 hour in one to date). I find myself fighting with the airplane in a steep turn to keep it at the same altitude. I trim a lot too, and even if it's trimmed up it still wanders quite a bit in turns with any wind causing aileron adjustments. I naturally have a difficult time with steep turns (Why in the world do I keep having to do them for my IR anyway?!?!) so maybe it's just me, but I don't think so.

I don't think that it's just pilots landing too fast. I am at 70kts on final and I don't fully chop the power and throw the last notch the flaps (if I do even throw the last notch of flaps) until short short final when I trim for landing too. I think that the issue with people landing 182's in general is they're not taught to properly land it and they don't help themselves with trim. So people are slamming it into the ground because they're not pulling back far enough soon enough. Today I landed pretty darn smoothly, and kept the nose off the ground for a bit as I rolled down the runway. It's totally possible, you just need the right training.