My fight with the FAA

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Several lessons learned here. First is never to divulge anything voluntarily to the FAA. Second is to be very careful at all times, but especially ehen doing a VFR straight-in approach.

My wife and I spent the week in Kerrville, Texas and had just left the Austin Robert Mueller airport where we picked up our neice to spend a few days with us. I had decided to be lazy and instead of entering the traffic pattern at the recommended 45 degree angle, I planned a straight in approach. This was after calling Unicom about 15 miles out and asking for current winds and runway in use. I was told runway 01 was preferred and no other traffic in the pattern. I put the plane in a three mile straight-in final and again told Unicom of my intentions and no other aircraft came on to say they were either in the pattern or getting ready to depart.

I am doing my pre landing check list mainly to insure I have three in the green and my wife looks out the window (I should have been doing that) as well when about 50 feet away (it looked a whold lot closer than that) we see a twin engine comuter aircraft that has just taken off from runway 19. I did a sharp right turn and the other aircraft away from me just micro seconds from a collision. I then flew outbound for a couple of miles to compose myself and spoke to Unicom asking the preferred runway. They repeated 01 so I entered a 45 downwind and landed on 01. After putting the plane away, I went to the Unicom office and asked what aircraft had departed on 19. They said it was a comuter airplane that uses the Killeen Airport as its home base, but rarely if ever botherers to announce its intentions over the Unicom instead getting its clearances from our local center at Gray Army Airfield some 6 miles to the west.

Needless to say I was miffed. So instead of asking more knowledgeable friends who would have told me not to do it, I called the FAA and first asked if I share this I want assurances that no one will get in trouble, but am calling to hopefully get better adherences with using Unicom at uncontrolled airports. Silly me. The man on the other end of the phone assured me what I am going to say is done in confidence and no one will be in trouble. Liar liar - pants on fire.

A couple of weeks later I receive a certified letter which I had to sign for and all of the time thinking before reading this that it has to be an error. I was the reporting party and they told me no one would be punished. Well, it was a letter demanding I explain in detail the actions that took place over Killeen Airport on that day and this accounting by me had to be in their office within 10 days.

I called their office and told them of the conversation I had before telling them of the incident. They said, Due to the possible magnitude of the incident we will not hold ourselves to that promise. We require you to complete that incident report. Hell, yes I was intimidated so I completed the report and sent it to the FAA at Meachem Field thinking this would be the last I heard of it. Wrong! They required I visit their office and fill out another explanation. I did that and waited in an outer office while three of their inspectors evaluated my explanation. They then told me I was being sanctioned as I made an improper approach to the airport. I then got mad and asked what regulation specified a straight in approach is not authorized. They stammered and said it was outlined in the Airmans Information Manual. I retorted, The AIM is not a regulatory document. It is only a suggested method of completing a manuver. They said they would take that under advisement. I left and immediately upon returning to Killeen went to see an attorney. My daughter-in-law works for two lawyers. I explained the situation to the senior of the two and a very good friend attorney friend in the next office is also a pilot and CFI. We sit down and discuss the pending sanctions the FAA has said they would impose on me.

A rather stinging letter was sent by my attorney to the FAA chief counsel with a copy to the FAA office at Meachum Field. Less than two weeks later I get a letter from the FAA saying they are dropping the case against me due to confusion. Confusion hell, they know when they screwed up and are trying to extracate themselves from the back lash.

However, I rarely do straight in approaches although perfectly legal, I prefer to be safe rather than dead right. I also do not make any more phone calls to the FAA.
 
I agree on the no straight-in's in uncontrolled airports... I don't do them anymore because it seems to be confusing to many others. I had a couple close calls (nowhere near as close as yours) that made me realize it's just never worth the minute or two I would gain from avoiding entering on downwind. After all, no one is required to talk on the radio in those, and in the busy ones it can get downright hairy if some folks utilize this option (not that I will ever understand the attitude).

As for disclosing to the FAA - like many others here will say, you should have filed an ASRS report (or whatever they are called) if you really felt like it. But it's one of those things: why stir up trouble?

Glad to hear it's all sorted out for you, and sorry to hear about the scare.
 
Remember there is no requirement for communications at a non towered airport. Although you would expect better from a commuter plane, he wasn't in the "wrong."

And I can't even imagine voluntarily raising the issue with the FAA. No harm, no foul, let it go.
 
As for disclosing to the FAA - like many others here will say, you should have filed an ASRS report (or whatever they are called) if you really felt like it. But it's one of those things: why stir up trouble?

Yes, an ASRS report would have been the way to go to express a safety concern. It still wouldn't be a bad thing to file, though the OP is past the 10 day period during which doing so would afford any protection against "punishment," had it come to that. Of course in the extant case th OP did nothing wrong that would warrant punishment.
 
Remember there is no requirement for communications at a non towered airport. Although you would expect better from a commuter plane, he wasn't in the "wrong."

And I can't even imagine voluntarily raising the issue with the FAA. No harm, no foul, let it go.

No, neither of the planes were "wrong" and they both failed to adhere to
recommendations
in the AIM. Always keep your eyes on a swivel out there!
 
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No, neither of th planes were "wrong" and they both failed to adhere to
recommendations
in the AIM. Always keep your eyes on a swivel out there!

Indeed. I canceled a flight today in perfect weather because my neck is a little stiff and I just don't feel comfortable flying without being able to easily swing to the right and left all the way. Probably the most unusual "no go" decision I've made.
 
You called the FAA and reported a near miss with a commuter aircraft with paying passengers, they were pretty much forced to do something, and since you were landing and the commuter was taking off, you were the only target they could go after. Sucks, and i agree you were in the right, but never self reporting anything is good advice. Thanks for sharing your tale, glad you were able to avoid being the sacrificial lamb.
 
What a pile of BS. We are the FAA, we are here to help you. We're not happy untill you are not happy. My first question would be what sanctions did the commuter get? No wonder so many pilots hate the FAA.
I may get flamed for this but I would have contacted the chief pilot for the commuter airline. They would learn how to announce intentions on the CTAF. These are suppose to be professional pilots and there are two of them in the cockpit. Just no excuse IMO.
 
What a pile of BS. We are the FAA, we are here to help you. We're not happy untill you are not happy. My first question would be what sanctions did the commuter get? No wonder so many pilots hate the FAA.
I may get flamed for this but I would have contacted the chief pilot for the commuter airline. They would learn how to announce intentions on the CTAF. These are suppose to be professional pilots and there are two of them in the cockpit. Just no excuse IMO.

From what I understand, they were punished by the same office as I fought with. Less than two months later the airline went out of business as one of their newer planes was confiscated in South America with a load of narcotics on board. The owner on board was arrested. His dad was a major player with the Lyndon Johnson presendency could not pull enough strings to save the airline.

A month later three pilots (all CFII's with Central Texas College were killed) and one student pilot was severely hurt at the same airport due to fuel starvation. Since then and it has been many years Thank God, there have been no fatalities at that airport.
 
Robt Mueller? Did we have asrs back then?
Sorry to hear of your experience.

I don't know what ASRS is. From what I am reading, it's some kind of confidential reporting unsafe acts, but I had not heard of iy until this thread.

Guess I will Google it now. Just looked it up. No, we did not have it when this occurred. Maybe our letter to the general counsel might have had something to get it started. Hope so.
 
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I don't know what ASRS is. From what I am reading, it's some kind of confidential reporting unsafe acts, but I had not heard of iy until this thread.

Guess I will Google it now.
It's a safety reporting program administered by NASA. More information here: http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/overview/summary.html
and you can now file the reports over the web here: http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.html

Probably best known by the GA crowd as offering a limited "get out of jail free" card as described in AC 00-46E: http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/overview/immunity.html
 
How do you know the certified letter was not triggered by a complaint from the other aircraft? I understand you made your statement with the assurances from the FAA guy, but do you know if one of the other pilots (on the other AC) called the FAA and said they almost had a collision because of someone flying a straight in approach?

(sorry if I missed something explaining otherwise)
 
The saddest thing here is the breech of trust the FAA committed with the OP. We all just learned that an FAA inspector's word is *not* bond.
 
How do you know the certified letter was not triggered by a complaint from the other aircraft? I understand you made your statement with the assurances from the FAA guy, but do you know if one of the other pilots (on the other AC) called the FAA and said they almost had a collision because of someone flying a straight in approach?

(sorry if I missed something explaining otherwise)

That is a good question. Because the talk at the airport was the pilots of the commuter aircraft were angry because a low-time private pilot "ratted them out". I had specifically asked for a no penalty for the call and was assured that would occur. If we would have had an accident, we both maybe would have been "Dead Right or Dead Wrong" It does not matter. I did not know until later that it was not a violation not to announce ones intentions over the common frequency. They were busy with center getting their clearance. Letting other pilots know your intentions take so little effort especially with planes equipped with dual Com radios. Doing so, can and has saved lives.

At that time there was no ASRS in effect.
 
Because the talk at the airport was the pilots of the commuter aircraft were angry because a low-time private pilot "ratted them out".

That pretty much sums up "Anti-Authority" attitude, right there in them...

Unfortunately the FAA built that up in them carefully from the time they started flying for a living.

You, on the other hand, hadn't had the joy of finding out that the FAA doesn't want to build a safety relationship with pilots who want to speak frankly with them about real-world challenges.

The NASA ASRS forms are about the only truly safe way to report these kinds of things these days... FAA is reaping what they've sown.

If you have friends who work at a FSDO that you know PERSONALLY, you MIGHT be able to have a frank conversation... otherwise, it's Russian Roulette.
 
Wait. "Esplain this to me again, Lucy". YOU initiated the call to the agency?

....sigh.......
 
OP, how long ago was this, not that it matters. You are correct that there is no violation for not useing the radio UNLESS it is in their Op Specs. Likely it was. However, I don't care how busy they were, there is no excuse to not announce and to monitor the CTAF. I fly out of an uncontrolled airport with a commuter line. I fly a turbo prop and there is only one of me up front. I can not imagine any way I would not announce and monitor the CTAF. Even in marginal VFR with a void after clearance I would always anounce and monitor. If I have time as a single pilot operation then they had time. It is in excusable and is fortunate nobody got killed.
 
Like so many of these stories, there's his side, the other guys side and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

Would you have offered him assurances that nobody would get in trouble? Assuming his story is true, how would you have handled it?
 
Like so many of these stories, there's his side, the other guys side and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

No, The truth is you never go to the FAA and tell them you did any thing, right or wrong.
 
No, The truth is you never go to the FAA and tell them you did any thing, right or wrong.



That's not what I am speaking too.

You're only hearing one side of the story here, and as more often than not what really happened is yet to be revealed. :rolleyes:

But it does make for good fodder to stir people up and make them go grab the pitchforks. :stirpot:
 
(Um, am I missing something? I'd use the CTAF to make and monitor traffic calls around an uncontrolled field. In my limited experience, Unicom is used to talk to FBOs or others on the ground. Did "Unicom" and "CTAF" used to be synonyms back in the day or something?)
 
I was thinking about the fact that if he had flown a 45 entry, they still would have been head-on when he turned final, but then it occurred to me that flying a downwind leg would have given him more opportunity to see the cummuter airliner taking the runway. So from a safety point of view, maybe flying a pattern is better.
 
(Um, am I missing something? I'd use the CTAF to make and monitor traffic calls around an uncontrolled field. In my limited experience, Unicom is used to talk to FBOs or others on the ground. Did "Unicom" and "CTAF" used to be synonyms back in the day or something?)

Unicom and CTAF are on the same frequency at many airports, especially uncontrolled fields.
 
Remember there is no requirement for communications at a non towered airport. Although you would expect better from a commuter plane, he wasn't in the "wrong."

And I can't even imagine voluntarily raising the issue with the FAA. No harm, no foul, let it go.

Not the OP here. I want to know what the Op Specs of the commuter says about communications at non twoered airports.
 
(Um, am I missing something? I'd use the CTAF to make and monitor traffic calls around an uncontrolled field. In my limited experience, Unicom is used to talk to FBOs or others on the ground. Did "Unicom" and "CTAF" used to be synonyms back in the day or something?)

Back then it was called Unicom. Currently at that field there is only one frequency to announce your intentions, communicate with other aircraft or get airport advisories. It was then and is today 122.7.

For Rotor & Wing.

No one disputed what was said. Gray approach six miles away had documented I had twice announced my intentions which was to land on runway 01. Neither they norUnicom had any record that the comuter pilots ever once initiated a call on the Unicom frequency. They also did not ask Unicom for the recommended runway as they were departing on runway 19.

I guess owning a computer gives you the right to question a mans veracity, but to what point? How does what you wrote contribute in a positive manner to this thread?


Unfortuantely, I have become a bit more cnyical. I used to be very trusting. Regarding the FAA, when they told me no one would be punished and they went back on this I was very disappointed in my fellow man. I spent 22 years in the US Army and our word was sacred. To me, it still is.
 
I guess owning a computer gives you the right to question a mans veracity, but to what point? How does what you wrote contribute in a positive manner to this thread?

There is more to this story than is being read here. Before jumping to conclusions I would like to see the facts.

Just one man's opinion.
 
I was thinking about the fact that if he had flown a 45 entry, they still would have been head-on when he turned final, but then it occurred to me that flying a downwind leg would have given him more opportunity to see the cummuter airliner taking the runway. So from a safety point of view, maybe flying a pattern is better.

Three winners in one thread! :D


Flying the pattern would have avoided the whole, dangerous incident.


More than once on POA an "expert" has argued with me about straight in approaches.


OP, lesson learned. When you have people in the plane fly it like you are an airline pilot. Your first post said you were 500' off the ground and you are still doing checklists? With passengers? :eek:
 
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Three winners in one thread! :D


Flying the pattern would have avoided the whole, dangerous incident.


More than once on POA an "expert" has argued with me about straight in approaches.

Go back and read the original post in this thread. My point was that I did a straight-in approach and feel that was not the safest manner of landing. I said I rarely did those then, and almost never do them now. I was chastising myself for contributing to a possible collision. That said, had the other plane communicated with Unicom most likely they would have known the preferred anounced runway was 01. Or had they announced their intentions that also would alerted me that a plane was flying directly into my path of travel and I would have taken a different approach to the runway.

I was not blaming the other pilots although both of us did not contribute to safety. I feel the bad guys here are the FAA for saying one thing and trying to do another. Had I been more wimpy, I would have been given a suspension. By defending myself this did not occur as no violation occured. But you can be dead right as well as dead wrong. Either way, you are dead and no one is the winner. I felt I had learned two valuable lessons.
 
Including the airliner. Never seen one fly a pattern ever.

They are always fllying IRF and are flying the approach that center has given them. It would pay big benefits if they would announce their intentions on the CTAF as well. At this airport this is no longer an issue. All comuter airlines share the runway with military aircraft at Grey Army Airfield (KGRK) six miles west of KILE and do not use Killeen Municipal.
 
Three winners in one thread! :D


Flying the pattern would have avoided the whole, dangerous incident.


More than once on POA an "expert" has argued with me about straight in approaches.


OP, lesson learned. When you have people in the plane fly it like you are an airline pilot. Your first post said you were 500' off the ground and you are still doing checklists? With passengers? :eek:

Where did I say I was at 500'. I said I was about three miles from the airport and checking to insure the gear was down. At this point I was at TPA or above.
 
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