Mustang belly lands DAB

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by CRQFlier, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. CRQFlier

    CRQFlier Pre-Flight

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  2. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I don’t think of a citation when I see mustang.
     
  3. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Whew. You said Mustang and I thought "oh no, not another P-51".

    No, it's just a Citation.

    Was this intentional or just more stupid pilot tricks?
     
  4. Caramon13

    Caramon13 Pattern Altitude

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    If it helps, I think they intentionally wanted to land.
     
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  5. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Oh no! Yikes!!!! A ‘small plane’ lands without its wheels, this has only happened.........8492927468 times before!

    :rolleyes:
     
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  6. CRQFlier

    CRQFlier Pre-Flight

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    I had a friend on a commercial flight that diverted. Was hoping to figure out if the Citation pilot simply forgot.

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
     
  7. CRQFlier

    CRQFlier Pre-Flight

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    I get it, but generally there are props turning. Jet belly, not so frequent.
    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
     
  8. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    Trucks weren't rolled. Make's me think it was unintentional
     
  9. Croomrider

    Croomrider Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Trucks were there very quickly, probably too quickly for unplanned.
     
  10. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Yeah, I have nightmares of holding the nose up and not feeling the mains touch ... until I hear scraping.
     
  11. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I watched a P-51 land without one of the mains down a few years back at Oshkosh. The pilot did a beautiful job of holding it straight until the last possible minute and she didn't sustain must damage.
     
  12. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That was a hot landing for sure.
     
  13. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Line Up and Wait

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    Same here, although I must say that I’d rather see a Citation get beat up than a P-51, if it had to happen...
     
  14. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    Not sure how to check ATC archives but the answer I would imagine would be in there possibly on the circumstances surrounding this.
     
  15. smv

    smv Line Up and Wait

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    https://www.liveatc.net/archive.php
     
  16. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Pattern Altitude

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    I don't see it mentioned here, but I've read it on several other boards that this was a checkride flight, and the landing in question was a no-flap landing that inadvertently turned into a no-gear landing as well.
     
  17. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I wonder how the ride went?
     
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  18. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Pattern Altitude

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    I would think even the examiner will be getting looked at, for letting it go that far.

    There was discussion among other jet guys on the other forum about how it could happen, and others that had almost done the same. You set up for a no-flap landing which is common on the checkride. You silence the gear warning because you "know" it should be going off right now because you are doing the no-flap landing. You later forget to lower the gear as the examiner is loading you up with distractions during the "emergency", especially single pilot in a jet. You comment on final how the airplane isn't slowing down like you are used to because of no flaps. It all works out, until the grinding begins.
     
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  19. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I am guessing at the very least that he will have to do another no flap landing.....

    Since this was a checkride, did the pilot and the examiner have to do a pee check.??
     
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  20. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Don't know if he passed, but it took full power to taxi to the ramp.
     
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  21. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Still a mystery (for me) why you would silence the gear. Generally it goes off at some combination of flap setting, TLA, and altitude.
    It just doesn’t make logical sense to silence it. Not from a safety standpoint, but rather if it was going to go off and you knew it that means you know you need the wheels down.
    I don’t have Mustang time, but generally there is a second gear warning as part of the EGPWS. I don’t believe that one can be silenced, but I could be mistaken about that.
     
  22. Caramon13

    Caramon13 Pattern Altitude

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    Maybe they got tired of listening to the warnings? Blah blah, gear, blah blah, I know what I'm doing airplane damnit..stop telling me words!!!
     
  23. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I guess what I’m having trouble with is in that situation the horn would be a “nuisance”, but rather it wouldn’t go off until needed. I can’t see the reason to silence it.
     
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  24. Caramon13

    Caramon13 Pattern Altitude

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    Agreed, seems like you would want to be paying attention to that stuff. Hasn't this kind of stuff happened with other gear up landings? People just ignore it and are shocked when they are grinding metal?
     
  25. Plano Pilot

    Plano Pilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    From the Citation Mustang Operating Manual found at: http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/Citation_Mustang-Landing_Gear_and_Brakes.pdf

    "Aural Warning The warning/caution advisory system provides a landing gear aural warning if one or more gear are not locked down and either of the following situations occurs:

    • One or both throttles are retarded below approximately 85% N2 and airspeed is below 130 KIAS. Pressing the HORN SILENCE–PUSH button on the gear control panel (see Figure 14-7) silences this warning.

    • Flaps are extended beyond the TAKE OFF AND APPROACH setting. In this situation,the aural warning cannot be silenced with the HORN SILENCE– PUSH button."

    Our Ultra has an airspeed warning at 150 knots but as time goes by the warning starts coming on at slower speeds or not at all. Over 12 years we have probably replaced 2-3 of these switches.
     
  26. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Pattern Altitude

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    The scenario thrown out on the other board from someone who almost had a similar incident, was the first alarm you mentioned went off and was silenced. They were aware they were at low power due to the no flap scenario, but weren't ready for the gear at that point and didn't want to hear the horn for the next several minutes. The second horn never sounded because there were no flaps extended. It was easy to explain the extra speed on final due to the lack of drag from the flaps...until they noticed the gear lights. The theory on the other board, given the fact this was a checkride and some comment was made to a simulated no-flap landing, was that the same scenario played out, but neither the pilot nor the examiner caught the gear.
     
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  27. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Just curious if there’s anything in the supplements for the EGPWS.
     
  28. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Who flys a jet below 130 without the wheels down?
     
  29. Plano Pilot

    Plano Pilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I did not find that information for the Mustang.
     
  30. ebetancourt

    ebetancourt Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well.. If you are dropping troops or cargo it usually works better. :D
     
  31. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Pattern Altitude

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    Vref approach speed in the Mustang is between 95-105 knots. You have to realize the Mustang is a very light jet, entry level aircraft.
     
  32. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Even so, the only time you would really fly a jet that slow is inside the marker, where the wheels should be down.