Multiple airports (w/Landings) on one IFR Flight Plan

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ruthsindelar

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Ruth
What is the preferred method for filing for landings at multiple airports on one IFR flight plan?

I normally file separate flight plans for each trip but I believe I read recently that you can simply file one flight plan when you are planning on doing touch & goes / stop & goes at one airport and continue onto the next.

Any advice for how FSS/FAA prefers pilots to file this?
 
Don't know how the civilian world does it, but we (USAF) file a delay at whatever field we want to do pattern work at. Don't know if that is the preferred method, but it works for us.
 
According to 91.153(a), which is incorporated by reference in 91.169, a flight plan must include

(6) The point of first intended landing and the estimated elapsed time until over that point. [emphasis added]
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I doubt that it's ever enforced, though.
 
ruthsindelar said:
What is the preferred method for filing for landings at multiple airports on one IFR flight plan?

I normally file separate flight plans for each trip but I believe I read recently that you can simply file one flight plan when you are planning on doing touch & goes / stop & goes at one airport and continue onto the next.

Any advice for how FSS/FAA prefers pilots to file this?
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You can append the delay to the airport identifier in the route. Example:

ABC.V123.DEF/D0+30.V456.GHI

This route will be processed by the ATC computer as a delay of zero hours and thirty minutes at DEF.
 
Awwww right, you can teach an old dog new tricks...

ABC.V123.DEF/D0+30.V456.GHI - I like it...

I always have filed a separate plan for each leg segment when I need to drop a passenger somewhere... Works OK but once in a while I get a delay in being released for the next leg and wind up either sitting at the runway or holding (pronounced "boring") while the computer works out the conflicts...
 
In this area, the controllers strongly prefer that you file one flight plan for each leg of an IFR round robin. Then, before you start each approach, you tell the controller about the pick-up on the other side, and you either get your next clearance before starting your approach, or it's ready for you when you call on the missed. Maybe a controller can explain why this makes their job easier.
 
Ron Levy said:
In this area, the controllers strongly prefer that you file one flight plan for each leg of an IFR round robin. Then, before you start each approach, you tell the controller about the pick-up on the other side, and you either get your next clearance before starting your approach, or it's ready for you when you call on the missed. Maybe a controller can explain why this makes their job easier.
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The last time I filed IR (IR lessone, CFII was PIC) it was a round robin from OLM to HQM and back to OLM. Filed two plans, one each way. We told ATC about the second one while making the approach to HQM and he just told us to call him again when we were airborn to open it. No problem.
 
Ron Levy said:
In this area, the controllers strongly prefer that you file one flight plan for each leg of an IFR round robin. Then, before you start each approach, you tell the controller about the pick-up on the other side, and you either get your next clearance before starting your approach, or it's ready for you when you call on the missed. Maybe a controller can explain why this makes their job easier.
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It doesn't.
 
Doggtyred said:
Then why does it seem to be the preferred practice as opposed to one plan?
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You'd have to ask someone with that preference. But the question was which is easier. Multiple flight plans require multiple computer inputs and additional IFR clearances to be issued, a single flight plan may require a different altitude.
 
Re: Multiple airports (w/Landings) on one IFR Flight Plan


You can append the delay to the airport identifier in the route. Example:

ABC.V123.DEF/D0+30.V456.GHI

====
Thanks for the info regarding the route of flight.

How would you input:
- Destination (first airport, second airport...what is the thinking here..)
- Time enroute (just to first landing or the whole trip)
- Alternate: Can I have a separate alternate for each airport or just one?


Great discussion. Thanks for the advice
 
My thinking has to do with real-world flying, out of the training context....

When I was a shiny new instrument instructor whose experience of "the system" was limited to the instructional context, flying out of an airport with an FSS on the field, I regularly had my students file round-robins to two or more airports with "multiple approaches" in Remarks. As others have noted, the usual procedure was for the controller to ask our intentions following each low approach (not landing)...maybe it was going back out for another approach, maybe it was to leave and head for the next airport on the list.

After a while it occurred to me that my students were getting no training whatsoever on how to file from an airport without a friendly briefer right around the corner, how to file from an uncontrolled airport, how to file from an airport out in the boonies, etc. From that point on, my students weren't getting as many approaches per training hour but were getting more in-depth training.

Suffice it to say that I favor individual flight plans.

Bob Gardner
 
ruthsindelar said:
How would you input:
- Destination (first airport, second airport...what is the thinking here..)
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Last airport, the point where the flight ends.

- Time enroute (just to first landing or the whole trip)
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Whole trip, time from departure to landing at the last airport.

- Alternate: Can I have a separate alternate for each airport or just one?
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I don't see any point in an alternate for those airports where you only want to fly approaches.
 
Doggtyred said:
Then why does it seem to be the preferred practice as opposed to one plan?
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My understanding is that the reason is because during the time while you are on the ground no other airplane can enter the protected airspace IFR. I know some people who have claimed to use this method out in the unpopulated areas of eastern CO and western KS but I have never tried it. On the other hand I have asked for a block of airspace and a delay while doing mapping when I had to file IFR above FL180 and that always seemed to work out OK depending on traffic.
 
Thanks everyone for your comments. Any thoughts on this specific plan...

KSLC - Josif - KOGD - OGD - KBMC - OGD - KSLC

Would you list departure and destination as KSLC?

Thanks
 
I've not had much luck with delayed flight planes here in D/FW. Round robin flight plans have been declined when I picked up the clearance. Departure told me to just tell them at the destination airport where we are going next.

I recently asked for a delay in the air when stopping for fuel. Called Shreveport Approach after diverting for fuel and asked for a through clearance. Estimated we'd be on the ground for fuel 45 minutes. Turned out to take an hour, but they kept it open. This was around midnight and they didn't have much traffic.

Best,

Dave
 
I've never tried asking for keeping my flight plan open while I stop for fuel. I've had this situation come up once or twice in the past but always just closed the flight plan and opened a new one.

Is a "through clearance" a know FAA request? I assume when you do this, the controller cannot let any other aircraft land at the fuel stop airport until you pop back up. Yes?

Thanks
 
ruthsindelar said:
I've never tried asking for keeping my flight plan open while I stop for fuel. I've had this situation come up once or twice in the past but always just closed the flight plan and opened a new one.

Is a "through clearance" a know FAA request? I assume when you do this, the controller cannot let any other aircraft land at the fuel stop airport until you pop back up. Yes?
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In the cases where people told me they used a through clearance they were only dropping off passengers, not getting fuel, so their time on the ground was minimal.
 
ruthsindelar said:
I've never tried asking for keeping my flight plan open while I stop for fuel. I've had this situation come up once or twice in the past but always just closed the flight plan and opened a new one.

Is a "through clearance" a know FAA request? I assume when you do this, the controller cannot let any other aircraft land at the fuel stop airport until you pop back up. Yes?

Thanks
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Ruth, this was a towered airport; so, they wouldn't need to keep the airspace clear. Yes, it's a known term, but once can always expound if need be. Yuma has actually offered to do that for me several times. Busier airspace seems to lead to more canceling and refiling.

Best,

Dave
 
Considering your clearance isn't reactivated until you contact ATC you won't be preventing other aircraft from landing until you do so. If there are other inbound IFR traffic you won't be released for departure until they cancel. Departing VFR is an option, too, prior to re-activating.

ruthsindelar said:
I've never tried asking for keeping my flight plan open while I stop for fuel. I've had this situation come up once or twice in the past but always just closed the flight plan and opened a new one.

Is a "through clearance" a know FAA request? I assume when you do this, the controller cannot let any other aircraft land at the fuel stop airport until you pop back up. Yes?

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
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