Multi addon in 414A

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ki4lzk

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Joshua Jones
Hello Everyone;

My father-in-law is purchasing a 414A and said I could get my multi rating in it if I liked. A little about my experience: I have 125 hours tt. Of that 110 hours are in a 172 with the rest in a diamond da-40. Aside from the insurance issues, how feasible do you see this being? Would it behove me to do it in another aircraft and transition into the 414?

I have always been told that with large bore engines they don't like sudden power changes, it shortens the life considerably.
Thanks

Josh
 
with enough fuel and time, it can be done. This likely won't be a 10hour add on rating. If this was a rental I would recommend that you get some complex time for a while and then do the twin rating, but this may cost you less than a complex rental depending on your arrangement? That being said, there will be a bit of a learning curve and then one day everything will click.
 
I would do it at a quickie two day school.. Beat up their airplanes. A 414 might be a bit much, plus may not be easy to find a qualified MEI.
 
Kritchlow said:
I would do it at a quickie two day school.. Beat up their airplanes. A 414 might be a bit much, plus may not be easy to find a qualified MEI.
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This. You can get a multi rating in less than 10 hrs in a beater trainer twin. No need to put that kind of abuse on a 414.

Also, a bigger problem than finding a qualified MEI to train you is going to be finding an examiner who is qualified to give you a multi checkride in a 414.
 
That's a bunch of airplane to learn multi in. I would go for a light twin,for the rating ,then transition up to the 414. Don't think your going to get it done in minimum time.
 
Having a 414 without the instrument rating is a serious issue, both practically and with the insurer
I think you are in for a big $$ surprise - if they will even talk to you.
Hammer on some single engine hours and get the SEI-airplane rating from one of the 10 day guys
Get the multi rating with one of the 10 hour guys
Get some CFI time in a Duchess, whatever, and go get your MEI-airplane rating.
At that point you might be able to find a CFI who can help you put on the 25+ hours to make the insurer happy in the 414
Gee, wish I had someone offer me to use a 414
 
I'll add my voice to the chorus...

I think it would be both cheaper and more efficient to get the multi in a simpler twin. I also think having so much thrown at you at one time would be frustrating and take a lot of the "fun" out of it.

I got mine in an Apache years ago, and it was still a lot to learn.

Nowadays a Seminole or a Duchess or the like would serve in that role.

Regardless, good luck and enjoy training in whatever you decide on.
 
Kritchlow said:
I would do it at a quickie two day school.. Beat up their airplanes. A 414 might be a bit much, plus may not be easy to find a qualified MEI.
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:yeahthat:

The 414 is a wonderful airplane but I wouldn't abuse one as a trainer. Get the two-day add-on course somewhere, then enjoy using the 414 for going places.
 
If you are going to continue to fly the 414, I would suggest you go to Flight Safety and learn it in their sim. I don't know about your FIL, but perhaps both of you go. It's the only way you'll be insurable in it most likely. The 414 is a lot of plane with high stress engines, not sure I'd want to use it for a trainer, plus you can train a lot better in the sim.
 
Being an MEI, I would not want to do initial multi training in a 414. Way too much airplane for your TT (I am not being critical - just sensible). Concur with the others about getting your Instrument first then your multi in a light twin (I prefer the Seneca I over those mentioned - just personal preference). Do not believe any insurance company would even cover you for training in the 414. Just MHO.
 
old cfi said:
Being an MEI, I would not want to do initial multi training in a 414. Way too much airplane for your TT (I am not being critical - just sensible). Concur with the others about getting your Instrument first then your multi in a light twin (I prefer the Seneca I over those mentioned - just personal preference). Do not believe any insurance company would even cover you for training in the 414. Just MHO.
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They wouldn't, but Flight Safety would get him to the point where he can do 25hrs dual, and then he's insurable. If the 414A was going to be available to me, that is the route I would go. 414 is no more difficult to fly than a 310.
 
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If his insurance will go the Flight Safety route then why not. But then, would he be flying the 414 enough to stay current? Still needs that instrument rating. I see a rather large check made out to Flight Safety!
 
old cfi said:
If his insurance will go the Flight Safety route then why not. But then, would he be flying the 414 enough to stay current? Still needs that instrument rating. I see a rather large check made out to Flight Safety!
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No one said flying a 414 would be cheap.:lol:;) But if that's the plane he was going to fly, it'll be cheaper than doing the 'step up plane' method.
 
I have around 1700 hours in a C-414. But I had about 2500 hours in twins before that. I like the 414, comfortable to fly, able to get up into the lower flight levels and the ones I flew were well equipped. I flew out of an airport that would get 10,000 feet density altitude in summer and usually just under max gross weight. Just need to watch the temps during climb in hot weather.

I lost oil pressure in one engine at night on departure. ATC vectored me back to the ILS to land, no problem. I even used the A/P after I trimmed up for single engine.

I will agree with others, use a flight school beater Seminole or Duchess for training, use the crap out of the simulator, then get additional training for the 414.

I actually thought the 414 was easier to fly than the 310, but I only have about 50 or 60 hours in a 310.

And yes, ham fisted pilots will crack cylinders. For VFR descents, I pulled 3 inches 5 minutes before descending, then around 1 inch per thousand feet, or one inch a minute. We would get cracked cylinders after hiring a new pilot. And yes some of it could have been from training.
 
How much abuse is a simple multi checkride, it's like a weekend worth of flying.

Besides the 414 ain't like a turbine transition or something.

Just sit down with the POH and really go over systems before you even start.


I don't see the big deal here.
 
Fearless Tower said:
How many examiners do you know who are qualified to give a multi checkride in a 414?
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They let Betty Faux do them in whatever came around (WWII WASP with everything of the age in her log book and great DPE/instructor) but sadly she passed a few years back.:( I loved taking rides with her, she taught me more about flying in those few hours than my CFIs.
 
Fearless Tower said:
How many examiners do you know who are qualified to give a multi checkride in a 414?
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Am I missing something, the 414 ain't over 12.5k lbs, or anything else like that. Just a smallish piston twin.
 
Like everyone said, I'd get your instrument first. Maybe even get the commercial multi....
 
James331 said:
Am I missing something, the 414 ain't over 12.5k lbs, or anything else like that. Just a smallish piston twin.
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What R&W said. You can't just grab any old ME DPE. It may or may not be a pain, but definitely going to require jumping through more hoops. So much simpler to just get the bloody ME rating through a 2-3 day school and then start flying the 414.
 
Everyone,

I am going for my instrument check ride next week. I do plan to continue flying the 414. I have flow in one a couple of times. Regardless of how I get the multi, the assumption is that I will do 25 hours with someone in the right seat. I know of an instructor that will do the ME in a twin Comanche for 3000 flat rate.

I know someone in the are with a water cooled 414 and he has cracked numberous cylinders.
 
ki4lzk said:
Everyone,

I am going for my instrument check ride next week. I do plan to continue flying the 414. I have flow in one a couple of times. Regardless of how I get the multi, the assumption is that I will do 25 hours with someone in the right seat. I know of an instructor that will do the ME in a twin Comanche for 3000 flat rate.

I know someone in the are with a water cooled 414 and he has cracked numberous cylinders.
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There's still a TSIOL powered 414 out there? I haven't seen one in over decade. Great concept, **** execution though.
 
ki4lzk said:
Everyone,

I am going for my instrument check ride next week. I do plan to continue flying the 414. I have flow in one a couple of times. Regardless of how I get the multi, the assumption is that I will do 25 hours with someone in the right seat. I know of an instructor that will do the ME in a twin Comanche for 3000 flat rate.

I know someone in the are with a water cooled 414 and he has cracked numberous cylinders.
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Wow... gotta be the last one in existence... :yes:
 
Zeldman said:
Wow... gotta be the last one in existence... :yes:
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That's what Imwas thinking. When that conversion came out, there was always 2 of them in Tom's shop getting done. They didn't last long though.:(
 
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