Move to Colorado and POA

ghayes

ghayes

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
36
Location
DME16 R270 BJC
Display Name
Display name:
ghayes
I’m new to the board, so wanted to introduce myself. I’m coming from a different forum, iPilot, where I’ve spent several years. I also recently relocated from Williamsport, PA to Colorado. I have several friends in PA who are on POA that requested I post here to keep contact … so here I am.

I fly a Mooney M20F, that I think several of you are familiar. The plane is still back in PA, we hope to have it out to CO within a few months. At the very latest, we’re hoping to fly it from PA to OSH, visit the show for a few days, then fly it to CO. I’m half owner of the Mooney, the other half being my fiancée, who is of course also a pilot.

As of this writing, we’re considering parking the plane at BJC (JeffCo). Boulder (BDU) is much closer to home, but with the runway size, direction, proximity to the mountains and limited IFR approaches, we’re thinking JeffCo is going to be the better choice.

I got my PPL while employed by Lycoming Engines, taking advantage of their flying club. I’ve been flying for more than 10 years, got my instrument rating last year and my commercial license this year (just two weeks ago as a matter of fact). I’m looking forward to learning to fly (and land) at altitude and in the mountains. I’ve already got a mountain flying instructor all lined up.

Sadly, I don’t think a normally aspirated M20F is going to fit our mission up here (with a service ceiling of only 16,500). So, we do have intentions of getting either a more viable cross-country machine or something for the back-country. We haven’t decided what direction we want to go yet. Right now, top of our list includes a Glasair Sportsman 2+2 for backcountry or a turbo Trinidad for cross country. A turbo Mooney is interesting, but we’ve learned the Mooney is a bit “occupant challenged”.
 
I think you'll find, after flying there for a while, that a NA mooney will do just fine in the mountains of colorado.

Welcome to PoA
 
Hi! I moved to the Denver, CO area from suburban Philly, PA about seven years ago and spent three wonderful years there. I moved my Grumman Tiger out there and learned the wonders of real density altitude and mountain flying. It really is a different world and lots of fun. The mountains are great and you will LOVE what they offer. Lots of great POA's and AOPA folks out there including Eric Jensen who also has a M20F and Greg Kainz. You may want to talk to them before you move your Mooney as there may be a better choice than Jeffco, well its Rocky Mountain Metro now. :rolleyes: I was based at Front Range (KFTG) but that will be a hike for you. I believe Eric is based at Fort Collins.

Join the Colorado Pilots Assoc. and take their mountain flying course. Its fun and very informative.

http://www.coloradopilots.org/

The Mooney is fine for Colorado and Mountain Flying. My normally aspirated Tiger is not as capable as an M20F and was fine out there. You can go most places in and through the mountains at 12,500 ft. Your Mooney's service ceiling is above mine and I never felt constricted. I just flew light and basically used it as a two place plane when I did any mountain flying.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to POA !!! There are a few folks who have experience in your location. Anthony Amorosi who flew a NA Tiger out there and did fine and I think there is a mooney pilot as well. just can't recall who off the top of my head. I think Anthony based at Front Range. In any event I'm sure Ted and Missa will miss you and the mooney but good to see you here on POA!
 
Not sure what you're used to spending for hangar space but BJC can be spendy. There may be some port-a-ports available for reasonable prices. Gotta dig around a bit. Also, BJC sits on a ridge so the winds will get a bit tricky at times. No self-serv fuel at BJC either. I used Stevens for tie-down and fuel when I was there.

LMO and EIK are options that may be about the same distance for you as BJC. LMO has cheap gas and hangar space. EIK only has a north/south runway so it gets a bit sporty on those days with strong west winds.

Vector at EIK is fairly good for A&P - AI requirements. I can't recommend an A&P or avionics shop at BJC. The folks I used there depended on repeat business - you take it to them three times to get something fixed:frown2:. I have used Denver Avionics at APA and AOG-ASAP at FTG to get things fixed the first time.

I'm based at FTG now and like it there. At least three good choices for A&P - AI, reasonable hangar cost, and self-serv 100LL. It is a bit of a journey to get to the airport though...

Welcome to POA and the Denver area.
 
Seconded on joining the Colo. Pilots Association. It's a good group, and they give you a cool sticker to put on your car. :)
 
Hey! Welcome to CO and POA! Give Boulder another look - talk to Lonnie at Specialty Flight Training Specialty Flight Training- he recently moved from Erie to Boulder, and might have some inside knowledge about hangars there. I flew a M20J out of Boulder for a while, and like noted above, Eric Jensen (haven't seen him on the boards in a while?) flies an M20F out of Ft. Collins or perhaps Loveland now. A non-turbo will fly the Rockies just fine. You're typically flying "thru" and "around" the mountains out here, not "over". CPA has a mountain flying course, but I would highly recommend Lonnie's course. He's a top-notch instructor and just a general all-around great guy.

KBJC has (or had last time I looked) a multi-year waiting list for hangars. I believe they're in ground construction phase of building more, but don't know when those will be available. I have seen the occasional ad for sublease, but they're rare (or were a few years ago).

Erie is or recently finished building additional hangars as well, but don't know anything further about them. There's been some turnover out there and possibly some turmoil around airport management, but it's all just rumor to me.
 
Yea Gary!!!!

How was the trip out? Is the home email I have still valid? ie, did you get he e-mail I sent you?

Missa
 
YOU?!!!! YOU?!!!

YOU'RE THE GUY WHO STOLE TED'S MOONEY??!!! YOU DIRTY DOG!!!!!!!

:D

Jes' kiddin'. Welcome aboard.
 
Welcome aboard, Gary (and fiancée :))! Congratulations on the commercial!
 
Welcome to both PoA and Colorado!

I hope you find flying in the tall rocks as much fun as the rest of us do!

I'll let those guys who are in the Denver area give you the guss on whats available up there, but if you need any info about COS, PUB, or EGE, let me know.
 
Always glad to have another Mooney driver come on this board. It's great to have you. ((("occupant challenged"...bah...humbug)))
 
Thanks for the welcome and all the info. It’ll take a bit of time to go through it all and figure out what we’re going to do.

My woman’s been out here for two years now and flying out of BJC with Journey’s. She’s also received mountain flying training as well as acro training in an RV6. She’s flown into several places around, with Telluride being the most challenging she’s done.

As far as the turbo is concerned, my justification has been the high density altitude days in the summer. I really don’t want to be stuck on the ground or waiting at some distant airport for the DA to come down so we can get home … or to go somewhere. I know there can be DA days higher than 10K around here, and with a 16.5 service ceiling, that’s not much margin. Add IFR MEAs to that, it seems turbo can really help. But in reality, I think we’ll be holding on to the Mooney for a good long time.

And as far as my sly remark about occupants in the Mooney, I’ll admit it’s been the most comfortable plane I’ve flown, though I have little experience in other planes. In my flying “career”, I’ve flown less than half-dozen different planes.

I find the Mooney to be a great cross country platform for tall, thin people. I won’t fly it into grass strips, just some added risk I don’t want to take with damaging gear or prop strike. I find it odd Mooney marketed it for grass strips. Oh well, who am I to say otherwise.

Missa? I never knew of that nickname … if that’s what it is. Anyway, I haven’t checked my home email today, but if you used my GarysPhotography.com email, then yes, it is valid. And yes, you need to get working on your “states I’ve landed in” map. What did it look like BEFORE you started flying in PA??!? And yes, the trip went pretty well. I'm trying to get around to send ya'll a trip report once I get more settled.

Yes Flyersfan31, I’m the guy who will soon be stealing Ted’s Mooney … shhh, don’t tell him though. Hmm, I hope he doesn’t change the combo on the key lock. The way I figure it, his AzTruck is more than enough for one person.
 
Last edited:
I really don’t want to be stuck on the ground or waiting at some distant airport for the DA to come down so we can get home … or to go somewhere. I know there can be DA days higher than 10K around here, and with a 16.5 service ceiling, that’s not much margin.
Click to expand...


I was never "stuck" anywhere in my Tiger with its 13,800 ft gross weight service ceiling. Even going in and out of Leadville. 16.5 is plenty even with 10K DA's. Seriously.

But if you want a turbo get a turbo, but it will be a want not a "need".
 
Welcome!

Check out

www.coloradopilots.org

A number of Mooney owners who can provide more insight. But as a rule, 16.5 pretty much lets you travel all over Colorado. If you need IFR, it's Jeffco...er...Metro is abut the only place on the NW side of Denver. Next location is Fort Collins (FNL) but that may be too far away.
 
If you're going to OSH this summer, stop by the NASAO tent - Colorado Pilots will be there staffing the Colorado Aeronautics booth. We'll keep a map and airport directory stashed away for you.
 
ghayes said:
Missa? I never knew of that nickname … if that’s what it is. Anyway, I haven’t checked my home email today, but if you used my GarysPhotography.com email, then yes, it is valid. And yes, you need to get working on your “states I’ve landed in” map. What did it look like BEFORE you started flying in PA??!? And yes, the trip went pretty well. I'm trying to get around to send ya'll a trip report once I get more settled.
Click to expand...

My Necies couldn't say Melissa when they were young... it came out Missa which I like WAY better then Missy, so it stuck. When comming up with a screan name it just poped out.

Yep that's the email I used... on sunday (I didn't think the Lycoming one was valid anymore and it's the only other one I had).

Uhm, ya... before moving to PA it was MI and OH.
 
Great, so now I have to admit that it's not my Mooney. ;)

Glad to see you on PoA, Gary. Sadly you won't make Gaston's, but hopefully you'll make 6Y9 or at least Wings. You'll be glad to know I've been reading the Mooney bedtime stories at night, but I haven't washed it (I haven't even washed my own plane...).

Anyways, Gary is the owner of the Mooney that I flew out to Tony's graduation, to Wing's Fly-B-Q (proud winner of the "Rattiest Rental" award!), and a whole bunch of other places. I have many great memories in that plane. Aside from being a generous airplane owner, he's a great pilot and friend. The fact that he's gone now means I'm minus my best flying buddy. He helped mentor me during my private and IR, and we were also the "IFR Rescue Team", who would go out on occasion to pick up friends who got stuck due to IFR conditions, and made the smart move to call for help. So, y'all in Colorado are surely lucky to have him.

Welcome to PoA, Gary! :)
 
ghayes said:
I find the Mooney to be a great cross country platform for tall, thin people. I won’t fly it into grass strips, just some added risk I don’t want to take with damaging gear or prop strike. I find it odd Mooney marketed it for grass strips. Oh well, who am I to say otherwise.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, how many grass strips have you flown on?

At Gastons (grass) -- I believe we had more Mooney aircraft than any other type last year.
427.jpg
 
Welcome to the board! All of us from Lycoming county must want to be pilots!:blueplane:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
. The fact that he's gone now means I'm minus my best flying buddy.
Click to expand...

I'm insulted.

Ted DuPuis said:
He helped mentor me during my private and IR, and we were also the "IFR Rescue Team", who would go out on occasion to pick up friends who got stuck due to IFR conditions, and made the smart move to call for help.
Click to expand...

I will miss that. It was always nice to know that was an option... now I really have to work on the IR.

Ted DuPuis said:
So, y'all in Colorado are surel lucky to have him.

Welcome to PoA, Gary! :)
Click to expand...

+1!
 
Welcome to the Rockies. I am a little further northwest but surrounded by big rocks none the less. The mountians are magical and beautiful, ya just need to respect the quirks they create. Fly in the morning, enjoy the rest of the day and stay away from those cumulogranite clouds. As for the grass strip topic,,,, there are grass strips and there are "backcountry" grass strips. A few are pretty smooth but alot are not Mooney material. I fly my Zenith 801 to some awesome places and it is not Turbo'ed. I just make that up with V-8 horsepower.:yikes::smile:. Welcome again.

Ben.
www.haaspowerair.com
Haas International Airport. 2WY3.
 
Missa said:
I'm insulted.
Click to expand...

Don't be insulted, get yourself in the air more! Gary and I did a lot of work with IR (both when he was working on it and then when I was working on it), Commercial maneuvers, stuff with the Mooney, etc. I've not had anyone else (aside from my instructor) who I've done that level of flying with.

I will miss that. It was always nice to know that was an option... now I really have to work on the IR.
Click to expand...

Technically it's still an option if you need to get someplace, it just means that the plane has to get abandoned. Plus, you need to go do your IR anyway.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Don't be insulted, get yourself in the air more!
Click to expand...

Ya Ya, I know....

Ted DuPuis said:
Technically it's still an option if you need to get someplace, it just means that the plane has to get abandoned. Plus, you need to go do your IR anyway.
Click to expand...

That or I have to have you bring Scott out and pay for an instrument lesson back in. ; )
 
ghayes said:
I’m new to the board, so wanted to introduce myself. I’m coming from a different forum, iPilot, where I’ve spent several years. I also recently relocated from Williamsport, PA to Colorado. .......... we’re considering parking the plane at BJC (JeffCo). ,,,,,,,,
Click to expand...

Hi Gary,

Nice to see you over here at PoA. I still hang around at IPilot, but not a lot (aka Red Baron).

BJC is a nice airport, but a bit pricey. I get out there a few times a year for ski trips and find it a great place. It does get some winds that the other airports don't get there because of it proximity to the hills, and had to divert once over to Centinnial once because of that. Erie and Longmont are pretty nice, too.

Job take you out there? It's a nice area, and you'll have fun. I've got several friends that I visit in that part of the world.

Also, like a lot of folks have said, your Mooney will do pretty well out there. I did ok with my Skyhawk, years ago, but did have to pay attention at times, and my old Baron does fairly well, but often I'm below gross.

Keep us posted.....
 
Welcome to Colorado and the board.

Thanks for the intro Anthony, still around, lurking more these days. I'm at FNL now after a 1.5 year sojourn to Greeley after Fort Collins Downtown closed. Finally finished our Condo hangar project and moved in the end of January.

I learned to fly here in 96 and have done most of my flying at higher altitudes. Never had the luxury of turbo but haven't let that stop us. Have had the F since 2000. We fly year round and afternoons if we have too. You get used to anemic climb rates and planning so you don't need to go high. Get help from updrafts and avoid the 'bad' air. I don't spend much time above 12500. The Mooney does better than a Cardinal or an Arrow.

Last I heard there is a long wait for a hangar at BJC. And it can get pricey. It also seems to have weather when other airports don't, mostly wind. A friend lost her plane last year when the tie down rings pulls out of the wings and the plane flip a couple of times. And I've seen pictures of a 150 flying on its ropes.

For the north metro I'd go for Erie or Longmont first, then Boulder. Rentals can be tough to chase down since there are so many different entities with hangars. FBO bulletin boards are often the only place a rental will show up. The FNL pilots association tries to keep a list going. I don't know about Erie or Longmont.

Again welcome and if I can be of any help let me know.

Eric
 
Hey.. It is an experimental, we can do stuff like that.:yikes::yikes:

It is fun to fly but will bite ya fast if not flown properly. They teach you right rudder on take off to counter P factor. This takes both feet, if you get lazy on the rudder you will chew up ALOT of sagebrush real quick.:eek:.

I short vid with sound of it is at. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOF6eT6FRmY


A more indepth video showing the whole kit and kaboddle is at. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7272451917550730841&hl=en

This is the very first time I have tried to video anything so be nice with the comments..:smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:

Tailwinds.
Ben.
 
ejensen said:
Thanks for the intro Anthony.
Click to expand...


Anytime buddy. I will be back out there I promise. Maybe with a turbo. :D

Listen to Eric, Greg and the others as they know the realities of flying in this wonderful part of our country.
 
Last edited:
Anthony said:
Anytime buddy. I will be back out there I promise. Maybe with a turbo. :D

Listen to Eric, Greg and the others as they know the realities of flying in this wonderful part of our country.
Click to expand...

Do they put a turbo on a Grumman? Hope you make it back.
 
ejensen said:
Do they put a turbo on a Grumman? Hope you make it back.
Click to expand...


No there is no STC for a turbo. Just kidding on the turbo. The Tiger was fine out there NA as a two placer. An M20F or J would be better though. :D
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I'm very impressed, Ben!! That's a great, detailed video, impressive engineering, and a beautifully constructed plane. You really know your stuff. I'd like to hear more about the incidents that "scared you" even though you got back to the airfield! ;-) What happened, and did they inspire design changes?
Click to expand...

Tried a short field takeoff about 20 hours into the testing period. Lined up with centerline, applied brakes, put in full flaps, read full span flaperons...
Gave it full throttle, it rolled about 30 feet and lifted off. At about 50 agl it started to roll inverted.. Not good :yikes:.. I quickly reduced the power, applied full aileron and alot of rudder. Plane was at a knife edge at the worst part. I landed, cleaned shorts and did some serious thinking on how to fly this STOL plane. It was like you had a toy rubber band plane, wound it up and held the prop, the plane spins and the prop is still.. God as my witness I didn't think a full sized plane could do that.. I know better now.

Changes,
1- I NEVER rotate till I see at least 25 mph on the ASI.
2- I cut down the prop from 84" diameter to 77" to reduce the likelyhood of this stunt from happening again.

Hopefully I will be at OSH is a few weeks with the beast. Some things have come up that might change that though. The plane might end up in the Zenith Aircraft display area and there is no camping under the wing there, EAA wants it displayed in the auto engine conversion line by show center, no camping there either so finding a place to rest my head for a few nights is turning problematic...

Tailwinds guys and gals.
Ben.
 
Last edited:
Anthony said:
No there is no STC for a turbo. Just kidding on the turbo. The Tiger was fine out there NA as a two placer. An M20F or J would be better though. :D
Click to expand...

Thought maybe you were trading the Tiger in on a 252.:) Be hard to give up that canopy though.
 
ejensen said:
Thought maybe you were trading the Tiger in on a 252.:) Be hard to give up that canopy though.
Click to expand...


And that's exactly the plane I'd get when I move back. Probably would get a partner though. At least I'd look for a nice J as I agree, in general, that the turbo is not a requirement, especially with the J's 18K ft. service ceiling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top