Mountain flying CFIT Accident(s)

brcase

brcase

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Brian
Just learned of a the 2nd CFIT accident in the mountains this year with a plane I had recently flown

I have a lot of respect for the Idaho Mountains, Apparently others don't because these kinds of accidents are pretty easy to avoid. Just leave large safety margins and always give yourself an out. Both of these accidents could have been prevented by a couple 360's early to gain altitude and approaching the ridges at 45 degrees to so they could turn away and actually turning away before it was to late.

One could argue this weekends was not a CFIT accident since he stalled the plane and likely spun it in.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article171198222.html


http://www.localnews8.com/news/idaho-men-escape-custer-county-plane-crash/418785934
This accident while a lot of luck was involved the thing they did right was fly the plane into he trees rather than stalling it once they had committed to crashing.

Be careful out there and stay high over the mountains.

Brian
 
There are other issues about flying in the hills. Density altitude, weight, etc. It's not always necessary to fly above the mountains if you are familiar and understand how to fly appropriate passes and ridges. Going from the east side of the Denver-Pueblo area to the San Luis Valley including Alamosa, there's no way I can get above the highest peaks, which are over 14K. But I have been taught which passes are the most practical depending on winds and weather.
 
These pictures were taken on Friday while flying from Sun Valley, ID to Mccall, ID. The route took me just south of the Sulphur Creek accident. The smoke from the fire was the worst today on the return trip. 5 miles visibility pretty much the entire way. Pics were taken around 9 in the morning.
IMG_8392.JPG IMG_8381.JPG
 
Beats the hell out of hurricanes and tornados. ;)

All you in the wide forecast swath of the disarmingly named 'Irma' be careful out there.
 
steingar said:
You westerners can have your rocks. They make weather and eat airplanes.
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There are ridges here in the East that qualify as well. Several airplane wrecks can be found on the slopes of the Greens here in VT, and the Presidentials in the White Mts of NH are notorious for making weather. I've flown past Mt. Washington a couple of times, but always give it a generously wide berth. Last time I had to request a block altitude from ATC because of mountain wave activity; I simply couldn't maintain altitude within 300 feet.

The only saving grace in the East is that the rocks aren't tall enough to challenge a spam can's service ceiling. But they still deserve respect.
 
azure said:
The only saving grace in the East is that the rocks aren't tall enough to challenge a spam can's service ceiling. But they still deserve respect.
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And they make lots more weather than their Western cousins. Way more water in the East.
 
steingar said:
You westerners can have your rocks. They make weather and eat airplanes.
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It's so dry here on the Eastern Slope there's not much weather, they block most of it. I rarely can actually use my Instrument ticket here at home. Average runs 300 sunshine days per year in the lee of the Rockies.
 
I learned how to fly in New England flying the upper Appalachian ranges in western Mass, Vermont and New Hampshire. Then 20 years in Colorado playing and teaching in the Rockies. Now living in North Carolina with the lower Appalachians an easy flight away.

Mountains are mountains. Mountain airports are mountain airports.

Period.
 
MtnMarcus said:
These pictures were taken on Friday while flying from Sun Valley, ID to Mccall, ID. The route took me just south of the Sulphur Creek accident. The smoke from the fire was the worst today on the return trip. 5 miles visibility pretty much the entire way. Pics were taken around 9 in the morning.
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Missoula, Montana. It ain't just the places with hurricanes where people are being evacuated and losing their homes. This season in the west is unbelievable. And we are just about to go into the driest part of the year in the eastern slopes.
IMG_0288.JPG
 
GRG55 said:
Missoula, Montana. It ain't just the places with hurricanes where people are being evacuated and losing their homes. This season in the west is unbelievable. And we are just about to go into the driest part of the year in the eastern slopes.
View attachment 56197
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Horrible :(
 
My 182 is sitting at a small airport in the Cascade Mts due to the smoke. We were flying home from the San Juan Islands & climbed to 11,500 to fly over the smoke. The smoke was much higher than that so I decided to fly down in an open area near Snoqualmie pass. I know the area quite well since I've flown in WA state for over 40 years.

After several attempts to get through the smoke low level (read:scud running) I decided to land at the only available airport. After waiting on the ground for several hours we got a motel room. Area airports by that time we under one mile visibility.

Even though I'm a CFII with lot's of actual time, I decided to land and not file IFR since I'm not current. It would have been a very easy task though.

My wife & I are safe, the plane is locked & insured, & I'll go get it when the smoke clears.

Mountain ridges & smoke are to be respected.
 
Last trip I made across to the coast in mid-July we were at 14,000 ft westbound and could smell and taste the smoke in the plane. Came back 4 days later eastbound at 17,000 and it was only marginally better. The fires are much worse and more widespread now.
 
saddletramp said:
My 182 is sitting at a small airport in the Cascade Mts due to the smoke. We were flying home from the San Juan Islands & climbed to 11,500 to fly over the smoke. The smoke was much higher than that so I decided to fly down in an open area near Snoqualmie pass. I know the area quite well since I've flown in WA state for over 40 years.

After several attempts to get through the smoke low level (read:scud running) I decided to land at the only available airport. After waiting on the ground for several hours we got a motel room. Area airports by that time we under one mile visibility.

Even though I'm a CFII with lot's of actual time, I decided to land and not file IFR since I'm not current. It would have been a very easy task though.

My wife & I are safe, the plane is locked & insured, & I'll go get it when the smoke clears.

Mountain ridges & smoke are to be respected.
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Can you grab someone current (perhaps another CFII) and go get her out, and maybe kill the IPC bird with that same stone?
 
The airport is surrounded by Mts & no instrument procedures.

All the airports in Eastern WA are presently low IFR. 1/4 mile visibility is typical.

A front is coming through tonight & might allow a window of opportunity.

We're burning up in the Northwest & the Southeast is flooding. Go figure.
 
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Our forestry management systems have served us poorly. For nearly a century we've been doing all we can to prevent forest fires. Unfortunately, fires are a normal part of forest ecosystems, and they happen whether we like it or not. Used to be the fires would burn the ground and leave the canopy alone. Now they burn everything. I suspect climate change has played a hand as well.
 
I have flown mountainous areas for so long I would not know how to fly a flat area. I did fly in Kansas one summer and it just about drove me insane...... I mean I could see from one side of the state to the other.... while inside the house....:lol::lol:
 
Can't have forest fires. They might dump tons of stuff into the air and break some politician's pollution treaties. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
Can't have forest fires. They might dump tons of stuff into the air and break some politician's pollution treaties. LOL.
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Concern with pollution from wild land fires is well and good but what about all the pollution from dihydrogen monoxide in the gulf, Texas, and now in the Caribbean?
 
Clark1961 said:
Concern with pollution from wild land fires is well and good but what about all the pollution from dihydrogen monoxide in the gulf, Texas, and now in the Caribbean?
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I know! Right?! That stuff kills people! ;)
 
Clark1961 said:
Concern with pollution from wild land fires is well and good but what about all the pollution from dihydrogen monoxide in the gulf, Texas, and now in the Caribbean?
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That stuff "sounds" dangerous.....

Dihydrogen monoxide:

  • is also known as hydroxyl acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
  • contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
  • may cause severe burns.
  • contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
  • accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
  • may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
  • has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

  • as an industrial solvent and coolant.
  • in nuclear power plants.
  • in the production of styrofoam.
  • as a fire retardant.
  • in many forms of cruel animal research.
  • in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
  • as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.
:lol::lol::lol:
 
Zeldman said:
That stuff "sounds" dangerous.....

Dihydrogen monoxide:

  • is also known as hydroxyl acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
  • contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
  • may cause severe burns.
  • contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
  • accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
  • may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
  • has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

  • as an industrial solvent and coolant.
  • in nuclear power plants.
  • in the production of styrofoam.
  • as a fire retardant.
  • in many forms of cruel animal research.
  • in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
  • as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.
:lol::lol::lol:
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You laugh! Don't you realize that most fatalities in these storms expired from dihydrogen monoxide inhalation?
 
GRG55 said:
Missoula, Montana. It ain't just the places with hurricanes where people are being evacuated and losing their homes. This season in the west is unbelievable. And we are just about to go into the driest part of the year in the eastern slopes.
View attachment 56197
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Is that the hill with the big "M" on it?
 
It's not a mountian till is 80f at the base and you have snow at the top :)
 
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Zeldman said:
That stuff "sounds" dangerous.....

Dihydrogen monoxide:

:lol::lol::lol:
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It's also extremely soluble in water, odorless, colorless and tasteless in its pure form, liquid at room temperature and heavier than air. Don't mess around with this stuff.
 
AKBill said:
Boy I wish we had half the sunshine days you get. I think we have 300 cloudy/rainy days in SE Alaska....:(

Our weather makes mountain flying fun.....:lol::lol:
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I don't know how I'd do now, but when I was a teenager working with my grandpa in Yakutat, it didn't bother me...except for the day we didn't put on rain gear after lunch, and by the end of the day I was soaked and getting shocks from Grandpa's electric drill (1946 vintage).:eek:
 
Mistake Not... said:
It's also extremely soluble in water, odorless, colorless and tasteless in its pure form, liquid at room temperature and heavier than air. Don't mess around with this stuff.
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It's also the only known substance where the solid form floats in its own liquid.
 
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